FOOM #2 – The First Appearance Of Wolverine, In 1973?

[Logan510]

I didn't call you "Ma'am." "Just the facts, ma'am" is a line from Dragnet, used frequently by Detective Joe Friday.

 

I also didn't ever personally call you "off the rails" nor "looney."

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

He's right though. Asking the original creators won't do any good. What would they have to gain by telling the secret truth for where they got the idea for The Wolverine. They probably would just tell the same story they've told for the last 40+ years

[joe_collector]

OMG, so now you're comparing Andy, a 12-year kid with a sketch submission, to Steve Ditko, a well-known employee of Marvel confirmed to have drawn the characters he attests to co-creating?

 

[slym2none]

I didn't call you "Ma'am." "Just the facts, ma'am" is a line from Dragnet, used frequently by Detective Joe Friday.

 

I also didn't ever personally call you "off the rails" nor "looney."

 

 

He's right though. Asking the original creators won't do any good. What would they have to gain by telling the secret truth for where they got the idea for The Wolverine. They probably would just tell the same story they've told for the last 40+ years

 

Again - I will take the word of Len Wein over some dude on the internet backed up by his own opinion any day.

 

I guess I already have.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

OMG, so now you're comparing Andy, a 12-year kid with a sketch submission, to Steve Ditko, a well-known employee of Marvel confirmed to have drawn the characters he attests to co-creating?

 

 

We are going to have to start quoting this guy. He learned how to delete his posts.

 

::

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

I didn't call you "Ma'am." "Just the facts, ma'am" is a line from Dragnet, used frequently by Detective Joe Friday.

 

I also didn't ever personally call you "off the rails" nor "looney."

 

 

He's right though. Asking the original creators won't do any good. What would they have to gain by telling the secret truth for where they got the idea for The Wolverine. They probably would just tell the same story they've told for the last 40+ years

 

Again - I will take the word of Len Wein over some dude on the internet backed up by his own opinion any day.

 

I guess I already have.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Same here

[joe_collector]

He's right though. Asking the original creators won't do any good. What would they have to gain by telling the secret truth for where they got the idea for The Wolverine. They probably would just tell the same story they've told for the last 40+ years

 

But it doesn't make any sense, as the "Wolverine" that Andy says was stolen never existed in its original incarnation in Hulk 181, and was only created when Claremont re-imagined the character in X-Men.

 

So Andy is really saying that Claremont ripped him off circa 1978-79.

 

If people are having a tough time understanding this, here's a hypothetical situation:

 

Kid sends in sketch of character named Venom just prior to ASM 252, character looks nothing like Marvel's Venom, and has snake fangs and scaled armour, but is shown in FOOM.

 

Then in 2014, the FOOM issue is identified as a "prototype" for Venom and the close timeline between that issue of FOOM and ASM 252's debut of the alien symbiote causes him to say that he was ripped off and Marvel stole Venom.

 

The obvious problem is that Venom didn't exist in that form circa 1985 and it was only later in 1988 that the "black alien costume" assumed the form of Venom and the actual character model was complete.

 

The timeline doesn't make sense, just like in this case.

[AlexanderM]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

[Logan510]

He's right though. Asking the original creators won't do any good. What would they have to gain by telling the secret truth for where they got the idea for The Wolverine. They probably would just tell the same story they've told for the last 40+ years

 

But it doesn't make any sense, as the "Wolverine" that Andy says was stolen never existed in its original incarnation in Hulk 181, and was only created when Claremont re-imagined the character in X-Men.

 

So Andy is really saying that Claremont ripped him off circa 1978-79.

 

If people are having a tough time understanding this, here's a hypothetical situation:

 

Kid sends in sketch of character named Venom just prior to ASM 252, character looks nothing like Marvel's Venom, and has snake fangs and scaled armour, but is shown in FOOM.

 

Then in 2014, the FOOM issue is identified as a "prototype" for Venom and the close timeline between that issue of FOOM and ASM 252's debut of the alien symbiote causes him to say that he was ripped off and Marvel stole Venom.

 

The obvious problem is that Venom didn't exist in that form circa 1985 and it was only later in 1988 that the "black alien costume" assumed the form of Venom and the actual character model was complete.

 

The timeline doesn't make sense, just like in this case.

 

 

I agree with you 100% I was being sarcastic.

[joe_collector]

I just wish this thread could stick to the "neat coincidence" angle and not get bogged down with insanity like "Marvel stole the idea from a little kid" when it's obvious the only similarities that exist is the name, and that's of a well-known (at least up here) animal.

 

Don't get me wrong, had this Wolverine been short, hirsute, and sported wicked claws, I would be first in line accusing Marvel of scamming, but you can't own an animal name - that stance is just insane.

[Logan510]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

 

I'm feeling some deja vu

[comicwiz]

Glad to see you posting. (thumbs u

 

But who are we kidding - if that was signed V.F., there wouldn't be a place on earth which wouldn't have heard or been made aware your entry into a superhero contest was the original concept for the Wolverine character

[slym2none]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

 

So... you have your opinion, we have ours, and nothing either side says is going to change it.

 

Welcome to the world!

 

 

 

-slym

[joe_collector]

But who are we kidding - if that was signed V.F., there wouldn't be a place on earth which wouldn't have heard or been made aware your entry into a superhero contest was the original concept for the Wolverine character

 

Hey, you haven't heard me complain about creating Nova for a few months have you?

 

BTW, I was reading one of those Marvel tell-all books and they mentioned at least 4-5 times how Marv Wolfman had developed the character of Nova when he was a little kid, "Wolfman used his childhood idea of Nova, a childhood creation of Wolfman's, Nova debuted in..., etc." over and over. And nowhere else in the book do I see any similar detail with any other character.

 

Where did Blade dome from? Who knows? Ghost Rider? Son of Satan? Omega? Luke Cage? Iron Fist? No idea??? But damn, now I definitely know that Nova was a childhood creation of Marv Wolfman.

 

Methinks he doth protest too much.

[comix4fun]

I don't think the question of the first appearance has anything to do with the underhandedness of the actual contest. I'm going by the sources letter and sentiment, which quite frankly, I haven't seen enough to disagree entirely.

 

As for the aspect of the drawing to support his claims in the letter, there's a lot going on in that image, but it isn't entirely accurate to conclude what he drew is a robot either:

 

 

 

 

There's more information to conclude from that first little picture that it's a robot than it's an adamantium skeleton.

 

This was a FOOM contest. It was for kids to see their doodles in print. This wasn't a request for full on character treatments and style guides. If they did that, and got their hands on a fully developed character with his entire origin handed to them it might be underhanded. This kid gave them a picture with nothing else to go on and an animal name that he didn't invent, own or control.

 

As I stated before if I can draw a random character and give it an animal name and then own any character that carries that animal name then I am calling dibs on ALL animal names right here and now.

 

[comix4fun]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

 

 

If it was more than the name I might feel like you do, but it's just the name.

 

And the name is not something he invented, owned, or controlled.

[Speedy-D]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

I know what your New Year's resolution can be...

[comix4fun]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

I know what your New Year's resolution can be...

 

 

 

Oooh Oooh, I know.

 

Don't use words like henceforth unless you know words like henceforth are one word and not two?

[thunsicker]

If Olson's idea was named "Arthur" and in the New York Times, and not contest to find the next Super-hero, and looked like the Hulk, or the Thing, or a woman..and so on... Then it would be absurd to argue that there could be any relation.

 

However, in this case we have a situation where some people are trying so hard to convince people that a character in a Marvel publication called Wolverine could not possibly have inspired a character called Wolverine in a Marvel publication shortly thereafter.

 

I am not sure Olson's Wolvering inspired Wolverine, but I am certainly also not so sure that it could not possibly have been any inspiration. Denying the possibility with the facts of name, timing etc. in mind just seems illogical.

 

And please note that I don't use any face slapping and head shaking emoticons because I simply don't have a stake in this and don't want to discuss at that level - which is also why I will do my best to stay ou of this thread hence forth.

I know what your New Year's resolution can be...

 

Mine is to find some copies of Foom #2 and sell into this hype.

[comicwiz]

[joe_collector]

To add some gas to the fire, I believe FOOM 2 was a remainder/warehouse find book, probably from Marvel. I have some old ads listing that book available in VF/NM "in any quantity".

 

So don't invest too heavily peeps as someone is probably sitting on a landfill of these.