THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[G.A.tor]

2 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

The real poll is Paper loss versus Other defects when it comes to what copy you would buy.

This is not a one off answer.  

Put the marvel chipping/paper loss on the back cover and does the book get the same dreaded marvel chipping stigma?  If that 6.0 had a chunk off the back cover and still graded a 6.0 would it get the marvel chipping stigma,  probably not.

I've got lots of personal perk lists to pull from over the years.  Front/back cover defects,  staining,  paper loss,  marvel chipping, staple placement.  

This I completely agree with. 

Back cover flaws tend to be downgraded a lot less by collectors. In fact I can’t count the times folks have been happy to buy a book with a bc flaw vs fc

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

The scary part for me on the 6.0 is not so much the chips that have already fallen off but with all those 'dangling chips' that can loosen up at any time. I hate it when I see those chips at the bottom of the slab. I dislike flaws that can worsen over time like rusty staples, dangling chips, and staple tears. IMO, CGC does not take off enough for any of these flaws.

[zhamlau]

3 hours ago, blazingbob said:

I've just talked to CGC about this

This is absolutely NOT true "All joking aside, I’ve never understood not downgrading a book for marvel chipping. It seemed to defy the visual test "

CGC downgrades for marvel chipping using size measurements on how much chipping their is.

 

Thats good, now just drop 2.0-3.0 off the grade for the severity of chipping as part of the process and we are all set.

[zhamlau]

2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Chipping the market treated it more like a 5.0. I thought it was a 7.5 if the chipping and prechipping wasnt there....makes sense to me market took 2.5 off its grade and paid as such.

Edited April 26, 2018 by zhamlau

[blazingbob]

"The Market"?  So basically it doesn't matter that CGC factored in the chipping and graded it a 6.0.  "The ambiguous Market" felt it was a 5.0?  

How does that make sense?

Or are you "the market"

 

[VintageComics]

4 hours ago, blazingbob said:

CGC downgrades for marvel chipping using size measurements on how much chipping their is.

Of course they do and I've been saying this all along. The size of the defect determines the grade. All defects.

[namisgr]

8 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Of course they do and I've been saying this all along. The size of the defect determines the grade. All defects.

So you're saying size matters?

[VintageComics]

4 hours ago, comicquant said:

4 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Will you buy a book with a 1 inch by 1 inch corner missing or piece off the top back cover?

Yes, because the grade is likely to reflect the defect if its not chipping.  Mid-grade books with chipping, from my perspective, always look worse than the given grade.  Isn't the saying I always see pop up here "buy the book, not the grade"?  In the context of marvel chipping, this adage implies paying too much.   

I think you're missing the point Bob and CGC were trying to make.

Whether there is 1 square inch of paper missing from the front cover or several pieces that accumulate to 1 square inch, they are both accounted for in the grade.

Why people say Marvel chipping is not factored into the grade is false. It is.

So the point really is, do you prefer 1 square inch missing or several pieces that total 1 square inch because it seems that ANY and ALL books with chipping is being stigmatized and a book with a similar amount of paper missing (not Marvel chipping) wouldn't be.

[Primetime]

3 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

Obviously People have different standards as to what defects they like in their comics and what they don’t. 

I don’t like rusty staples, I tend to shy away from unless I have no other buying options 

on silver age I don’t like marvel chipping (mainly because I always have option of a non chipped copy).  Yet I have no problem buying a book with cumulative Mc size piece out. For me, it’s the amount of visual downgrade (again don’t mis interpret for Cgc grading ) the book holds for me. An entire  edge (or some extended portion of the edge) vs one confined area of a book. 

Its my criteria. No one else’s unless they share same view ... maybe I’m in the minority  , don’t know  

 

As a pure collector in my early days, marvel chipping never bothered me too much. I was just happy to get a copy. Now, with the big price points, of course it’s wiser for better resale value to select non chipped copies.  

[blazingbob]

For me and when I'm selling a "chipped" copy the bottom line is that this is paper loss.  It is reflected in the grade and unfortunately it causes your eyes to be drawn to it unless there is something else more pronounced on the book.  

The hobby has put a name to it because they know what caused it. 

If you could identify every time somebody tore a piece of the book I'm sure we would have a rippedoffis stigma out there.

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Of course they do and I've been saying this all along. The size of the defect determines the grade. All defects.

It's good to hear validation of this. I remember a discussion where most thought CGC does not take off for MC. I believe it was Jaydog that led the charge for they do not take off for MC. I think the reason many people think CGC does not take off for MC is because it's only a slap on the wrist, probably because it's considered Bindery. IMO, they should grade this defect more strictly. If books with MC are consistently selling for less than the grade assigned then CGC is not doing their job properly on this flaw. 

[Tbone911t]

Pretty sure they factor it in .........it's the 1st thing they listed for this copy

Heavy marvel chipping full right of front cover

Light readers crease front cover

light,multiple crease full top of front cover breaks color

light, multiple crease left top of back cover

light, multiple crease right bottom of back cover

light, multiple crease right bottom of front cover breaks color

very small, multiple tear full bottom of back cover

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, Primetime said:

As a pure collector in my early days, marvel chipping never bothered me too much. I was just happy to get a copy. Now, with the big price points, of course it’s wiser for better resale value to select non chipped copies.  

That's what I'm saying. I think the internet and the increase in talk about certain things have brought much more awareness to defects.

I also never cared about miswraps. I still don't but some people do and I think people in general care more than they used to in this new age of plenty.

[peewee22]

When we received that batch of Marvels in the 70s in those padded mailers, we always frowned at the books that had "missing pieces" on the outside edge.

Today, we still frown at those books with "missing pieces" on the outside edge. 

[Bomber-Bob]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

That's what I'm saying. I think the internet and the increase in talk about certain things have brought much more awareness to defects.

I also never cared about miswraps. I still don't but some people do and I think people in general care more than they used to in this new age of plenty.

I agree with you on miswraps, but I don't think heavy Marvel Chipping needed the internet to bring it to people's attention. It's always been a Front Cover, in your face type of flaw that most dislike. 

[Spiderturtle]

23 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

but I don't think heavy Marvel Chipping needed the internet to bring it to people's attention. It's always been a Front Cover, in your face type of flaw that most dislike. 

+1

[paul747]

Obviously there are a couple of camps on this issue. I personally would not spend 20, 30, or 40 grand or higher on a book with pieces missing At least one that is so common, I understand the argument that with out the chipping its a 8.0 or better, but it has the chipping, it should be a 5.0.  The chipping In my opinion should be discounted even more. Like I and others have mentioned, it just seems like it is going to continue to chip. Its a bad defect.

Edited April 27, 2018 by paul747

[Spyderfan]

I think it's what the buyer is willing to tolerate, much like anything else.  Many have a particular book they are willing to buy.  Especially for a high ticket item as AF15.  When I look at a SA book specifically, it has ALWAYS been this:

1. No ink/stains/smudges/Initials/Names on cover (I do love those old school splash panel artist sigs though!) 2. No MC 3. No mis-wrap. No date stamp (unless on the BC) 4. No front or back staples (depending on book).

Of course, there are other things to consider based on the particular SA book you're looking for (X1, TOS39, etc.) and I won't even get into that here. Just know, these books are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.....albeit, for the adjusted price in said grade. 

[StephenWA]

As a relatively new collector, particularly of older comics, I have read the recent posts on this thread re Marvel Chipping / MC with interest. Thank you all for sharing your views. It prompted me to look for a proper definition of MC, and having found it, though it may be of interest to post it here for other newbies / everyone. Apologies for taking your time to everyone who already knows this...

What is Marvel Chipping? "Marvel Chipping is a bindery (trimming / cutting) defect that results in a series of chips and tears at the top, bottom, and right edges of the cover, caused when the cutting blade of an industrial paper trimmer becomes dull. The flaw bears the name “Marvel” because it can be seen most frequently on Silver Age Marvel books. Although not restricted to Marvel books, the defect can also occur with any company’s comic books from the late 1940s through the middle 1960s. Some comic grading experts also blame poor paper quality."

Best wishes

Stephen

[Foley]

AF 15 with chips, AF 15 without chips, AF 15 that smells like fish and chips, AF 15 with chipmunk chews, I'd just be happy to own one.

Maybe some day