THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[piper]

3 minutes ago, Spyderfan said:

You mean, who walks around with 60k+ in their pocket?

[Dogsupreme]

Here is my raw copy of AMAZING FANTASY #15. Bought it at a convention 20 years ago. I want to get it graded but can't afford it right no.

 

[VintageComics]

3 hours ago, piper said:

I agree.  Who walks around with 20k in their pocket at a comic con?  I feel that a collector buying a book like this wouldn't buy it at the show.  They may work out some arrangement with the dealer at the convention.

Dealers would be looking for the quick flip...

Big books sell at shows all the time.  5 figure, 6 figure and potentially 7 figure books.

Very few people pay with cash. Usually checks, cards or wires.

@namisgr - that's exactly what I was trying to say.

@piper It's not about a quick flip. An international dealer will buy a mega key if they see that there is some meat on the bone even if the sale doesn't happen immediately.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Obviously dealers are a part of the market, but the fact that one dealer wasn't willing to sell privately to another dealer for some cut rate, low ball price doesn't tell us much of anything significant IMO.

-J.

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Obviously dealers are a part of the market, but the fact that one dealer wasn't willing to sell privately to another dealer for some cut rate, low ball price doesn't tell us much of anything significant IMO.

-J.

This misses the point about Chicago that Roy and Gator both made, that multiple copies of AF15 that were offered publicly did not sell, even with prices that seem reasonable in comparison to the hot sales discussed in the last few pages of this thread.

Edited April 26, 2017 by namisgr

[Jaydogrules]

10 minutes ago, namisgr said:

This misses the point about Chicago that Roy and Gator both made, that multiple copies of AF15 that were offered publicly did not sell, even with prices that seem reasonable in comparison to the hot sales discussed in the last few pages of this thread.

Roy's comments about a 6.5 was only with regards to a dealer shopping the book privately to other dealers.  

That one dealer wasn't willing to sell a copy at a cut rate price to another dealer so that he can then turn around and sell it for retail doesn't tell me much of anything.  

As for whether or not a particular room full of people were looking for an AF 15 at that particular moment doesn't really tell me much either.  Sure it's a snapshot of one particular collective at a moment in time, but that is hardly indicative of the market as a whole  (as we have seen).  I think someone else earlier said it best- it's all about right time, right buyer, right place when it comes to selling books at a con.  Completely different animal than selling a book to an online audience with an exponentially larger pool of buyers.  

-J.

[namisgr]

You make it sound as though no one could imagine buying a copy of AF15 in Chicago and then selling it to an online audience.  

[SC22]

4 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Roy's comments about a 6.5 was only with regards to a dealer shopping the book privately to other dealers.  

That one dealer wasn't willing to sell a copy at a cut rate price to another dealer so that he can then turn around and sell it for retail doesn't tell me much of anything.  

As for whether or not a particular room full of people were looking for an AF 15 at that particular moment doesn't really tell me much either.  Sure it's a snapshot of one particular collective at a moment in time, but that is hardly indicative of the market as a whole  (as we have seen).  I think someone else earlier said it best- it's all about right time, right buyer, right place when it comes to selling books at a con.  Completely different animal than selling a book to an online audience with an exponentially larger pool of buyers.  

-J.

Agreed!!

[dem1138]

Sorry but I heard directly from the source (ie the seller) of this mystical AF #15 at Chicago and it was a 5.5 not a 6.5 and it was aggressively priced at current market.

[G.A.tor]

1 hour ago, dem1138 said:

Sorry but I heard directly from the source (ie the seller) of this mystical AF #15 at Chicago and it was a 5.5 not a 6.5 and it was aggressively priced at current market.

that might have been a different copy...there was a 6.5 shopped by a Collector (not a dealer) to  dealers and all declined... at below retail (not cut rate by any means), but a price that "if" the market was where some think it is, would be a no brainer purchase

[dem1138]

2 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

that might have been a different copy...there was a 6.5 shopped by a Collector (not a dealer) to  dealers and all declined... at below retail (not cut rate by any means), but a price that "if" the market was where some think it is, would be a no brainer purchase

Then I stand corrected on this other copy as I'm also aware of a 5.5 that was shopped around on the show floor as well. 

[Dark Knight]

Well obviously we will continue to have disagreements with the current pricing of this book, whether it was influenced by past sales that had upgrade potential artificially inflating the value or if this spiked increase is real for all copies (yes even chipped copies have been selling for more than what they sold for months ago).  It doesn't matter if you are trying to prove your point, the other will continually dismiss it.  Let's just have fun and again congrats to those who own a copy.  Too much serious talk is blah.

[Jaydogrules]

6 hours ago, Dogsupreme said:

Here is my raw copy of AMAZING FANTASY #15. Bought it at a convention 20 years ago. I want to get it graded but can't afford it right no.

 

Super sharp copy!  And congrats on being a 20 year owner of the same book! 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

 

9 minutes ago, Dark Knight said:

Well obviously we will continue to have disagreements with the current pricing of this book, whether it was influenced by past sales that had upgrade potential artificially inflating the value or if this spiked increase is real for all copies (yes even chipped copies have been selling for more than what they sold for months ago).  It doesn't matter if you are trying to prove your point, the other will continually dismiss it.  Let's just have fun and again congrats to those who own a copy.  Too much serious talk is blah.

Agreed.

The market is where it is and will do what it does regardless of whether or not people agree.

As for me personally, I prefer public sales data over some rando at a convention skulking around in a trench coat, supposedly calling dealers off to the side ("psst! c'mere, you lookin' to buy an AF 15? 55 grand, cash in hand, 10g's under market, once in a lifetime deal, get it while it's hot") and flashing his copy.

-J.

[VintageComics]

4 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Obviously dealers are a part of the market, but the fact that one dealer wasn't willing to sell privately to another dealer for some cut rate, low ball price doesn't tell us much of anything significant IMO.

You are again twisting words in an effort to make the narrative fit your point when you know absolutely nothing of the details.

 

[Jaydogrules]

3 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

You are again twisting words in an effort to make the narrative fit your point when you know absolutely nothing of the details.

 

As a matter of fact, that's what YOU do.  I have absolutely no reason or motivation at all to "twist" anything into anything, whereas you, on the other hand, do, and I see you doing it, all the time, in this thread in particular. 

What's funny is that you actually seem to think that anything that you say here will actually influence the market one way or the other, as prices for this book continue to escalate in ALL grades and conditions, right before our very eyes, and for reasons that are only peripherally related to the reason that you continue to repeat over, and over, and over as if it was gospel handed down from the mountain tops.   

-J.

[Spiderturtle]

When buying a copy online through a scan- does a potential buyer worry about the gray background actually gray or it's become yellowish.  The current cc 7.5 (yellowish) vs cc 6.5(grayish).... That's my conclusion since both came from the same scanning source.  Any thoughts out there on this topic?

Edited April 27, 2017 by Spiderturtle

[namisgr]

29 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

As a matter of fact, that's what YOU do.  I have absolutely no reason or motivation at all to "twist" anything into anything, whereas you, on the other hand, do, and I see you doing it, all the time, in this thread in particular. 

What's funny is that you actually seem to think that anything that you say here will actually influence the market one way or the other, as prices for this book continue to escalate in ALL grades and conditions, right before our very eyes, and for reasons that are only peripherally related to the reason that you continue to repeat over, and over, and over as if it was gospel handed down from the mountain tops.   

-J.

Yes, you know about what the experiences with AF15s at Chicago Comic Con say about the current market for the book because, well, you thought about it.  And choose when thinking about it to ignore the information from those experienced dealers who were actually in attendance.  

 

And I suppose when you think about it again, and respond to this post, it will reinforce your stance because, well, you thought it AGAIN.  

Edited April 27, 2017 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

 

21 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

What's funny is that you actually seem to think that anything that you say here will actually influence the market one way or the other, as prices for this book continue to escalate in ALL grades and conditions, right before our very eyes, and for reasons that are only peripherally related to the reason that you continue to repeat over, and over, and over as if it was gospel handed down from the mountain tops.

The only intention I have of influencing the market is to bring balance and reality based on my experience and my observations because a market that is false or too hot is unhealthy for everyone in the long run.

And using pricing for upgradeable books and applying them to copies that would never fetch those numbers is not healthy for the market.

I make money regardless of what the market does, so what pray tell else could be my motivation?

24 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

As a matter of fact, that's what YOU do.  I have absolutely no reason or motivation at all to "twist" anything into anything, whereas you, on the other hand, do, and I see you doing it, all the time, in this thread in particular. 

Which words did I twist? I have been clear, concise and consistent from the beginning of this discussion.

I explained why I thought the record prices were set (all 3 copies looked upgradeable and the copies that were not upgradeable did not sell for record prices), I explained that if the market accepts these record prices as FMV then the market would rise and I stated that I thought it was unhealthy (as did several other guys who deal in or collect big books).

You on the other hand said this:

5 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

the fact that one dealer wasn't willing to sell privately to another dealer for some cut rate, low ball price

But you have no idea who was involved or what the price was.

Interjecting the words "cut rate, low ball" is pure speculation on your part and you know nothing of the details.

[Jaydogrules]

10 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Yes, you know about what the experiences with AF15s at Chicago Comic Con say about the current market for the book because, well, you thought about it.  And choose when thinking about it to ignore the information from those experienced dealers who were actually in attendance.  

 

And I suppose when you think about it again, and respond to this post, it will reinforce your stance because, well, you thought it AGAIN.  

I know what my own eyes tell me about the overall AF market, which encompasses a lot more than last weekend in Chicago.  

We are, after all, only talking about a comic book here.  It's not as though you need some sort of advanced degree in finance to make an informed opinion.  Dealer input is of course always valuable and appreciated, but the "I know better than you, so listen to and believe me and not your own eyes"-schtick is a little played out at this point.  

-J.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Jaydogrules