THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
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On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 11:24 AM, BIZZARRO said:

Need advice, 

I purchased an AF=15 3.0SA 3 years ago from HA

I resent the book in December 2018 to re=auction. The staff at HA thought removing the color touch might be worth doing and

come back a 2.5 or a 2.0 blue label. I just received notice that the book PQ is 3,5 but the guys at cgc say the book was trimmed

and it was missed the 1st time it was graded. Is this really possible? Now I have a 3.5 purple label with trimmed listed. 

Where do I go from here. I will list Photo's

53AB152D-096F-425E-82A8-349687985C01.jpeg.f3747e4c57e70d89a20a9e488437c634.jpg

back.jpg

I sent cgc a message asking them how noting trimmed in the notes and label was missed when originally graded.

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15 hours ago, 90sChild said:

I think it will certainly be amazing as a fan of the MCU, but I think speculators have already priced this in to current market prices.  We are in a cyclical speculator selling to speculator pattern.  My problem with comics as investments is that unlike the stock market, you can't short them when they are overvalued.  Think a Hulk 181 in 9.4 isn't worth $10000?  Too bad, you can't do anything about it.  Nobody will sell at a loss so there is an endless cycle of price increases.  

The group of speculators who banked on disney buying fox hit their gold mine, they have to sell to the next group of speculators willing to buy that are hoping for some huge movie related news which people are already expecting.  Who will those speculators sell to?  A new group of speculators that didn't see fantastic four or x-men MCU movies coming?  With each cycle the pie shrinks more and more as I think the MCU is pretty much reached full exposure to the public at this point.  I don't think it can continue forever but we'll see I guess.  
 

Well said.  I got back into the hobby in early 2017, almost exactly two years ago ... and at the time I didn't make FF a priority but I did focus on X-Men.  My X-Men run has all the keys except #12, which has been notoriously hard for me to track down in grade.

A year later I did make a run at FF, and I've done a pretty good job of filling in the run but obviously had to pay through the nose to upgrade #45, 48, 52, etc. because they'd already gone way up (with #48, there's been even further movement so I can take some solace in that).

I'm extremely happy that I grabbed FF #2 well before the Skrulls were confirmed in the Captain Marvel movie.  But I'm still sitting on a want-list that has #1, #4, and #5 on it.  I'm more or less resigned to the fact that it's going to cost me big-time to get those.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, AF #15 was my #1 priority in 2017 so I am one of those who bought a copy that summer.  While I wouldn't say I regret the purchase, as an investment it has been a flop -- my 5.0 has stayed more or less flat relative to what I paid for it.  Had I spent the same money on an FF #1, I could have afforded an 8.0 and it would have doubled by now.

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On 1/29/2019 at 6:43 PM, Joe Ankenbauer said:

Look at the attached grading tiers photo. How else can this be interpreted, other than the maximum value a comic submitted under the Express tier (only tier below Walkthru) is $3000?

Walkthru is the name of the tier to submit the book under.

It does not mean you literally have to walk the book through their premesis.

It means they walk it through the process quicker than other books of lesser value.

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1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Walkthru is the name of the tier to submit the book under.

It does not mean you literally have to walk the book through their premesis.

It means they walk it through the process quicker than other books of lesser value.

People corrected me on this issue quite some time ago.

 

Joe

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5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Walkthru is the name of the tier to submit the book under.

It does not mean you literally have to walk the book through their premesis.

It means they walk it through the process quicker than other books of lesser value.

Bingo.  “Walk Thru” doesn’t mean you literally have to go there and walk the books thru.  It’s just the highest tier (in terms of cost and priority).  You can mail it in and they’ll mail it back to you.  The main thing is that they’ll charge you that premium rate and you’ll get the book back within a week.

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26 minutes ago, Drummy said:

Sent away a bunch of nice books to get this awesome copy from DST (Dave) this month -- after moving my 6.0 wp a while back, this one's going to stay in the collection.

Thanks for looking!

Dan

 

:luhv:  Such an amazing copy.  So happy to help you add this to your impeccable collection:applause:

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just finished an AF15 glow in the dark painting 13x19 wood. available in the OA forum

its a one of a kind glow 2-3 hours and 9 ounces of the best paints available.

its as close as ill get to one 

 

IMG_2673.thumb.JPG.4ff223e6cbaafca160d80295d862bbe6.JPG

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On 2/8/2019 at 3:11 AM, DST said:

:luhv:  Such an amazing copy.  So happy to help you add this to your impeccable collection:applause:

DST - thank you for making Dan/Drummy such a happy man. I love the comic too.

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On 2/4/2019 at 6:56 PM, Glassman10 said:

My point is simple: AF15 is not rare. It is a comic which a lot of people would like to own, but not rare.  In high grades, it is pretty rare but not so much below a 5.5.  I've seen repeat estimates of 10,000 copies out there. If you want to own it, it's available en masse.  Choose wisely.  The observations about speculators selling to speculators is not out of line.  I doubt it will go down and maybe it will go up in value but that's not a really good motive to want it. Buy it if you love it, love the process, love the genre. Love the bad artwork.  I would never want it slabbed. I'd want to read it, as I did over five decades.  Then, sell it when it's spent and can do something really constructive.  As to the credit card stuff, I've held it for a long time since it had an initial IPO. 

 

I'd love to have some Green Lantern from the fifties, but I would only have paid newsstand price with an Orange Crush on the way to the beach. 

Haven't posted in this thread in a long time.

Well, with 3100 copies already in the census, I do wonder what the real number of copies is.  10K seems high to me, but the number is definitely higher than many were estimating 20 years ago for sure.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Spider-Variant said:

Haven't posted in this thread in a long time.

Well, with 3100 copies already in the census, I do wonder what the real number of copies is.  10K seems high to me, but the number is definitely higher than many were estimating 20 years ago for sure.

 

 

I don't disagree with you, it does sound high. So, what if there are some serious hoards out there which would really mess with the day to day pricing of the comic.  When I've talked to dealers, they come to that 10K figure. I think when I sold mine, there were about 2800 in the census, that might be wrong. 

I think the trouble with the census currently used is that it simply does not include a vast number of sales of this, or of any book.  It strikes me that keeping sales, outliers or whatever out of the census really doesn't support a structure to really reliably gauge value in the book. Granted, it's popular. Also I continue to assert that it's not rare, just desired.   If people are really going to continue to put out the kind of cash for a copy, I think at some point realistic supply and demand has to kick in. The reality is that supply is a squishy subject and that should make demand squishy too if you are dealing in the kinds of numbers that it takes to buy one from an auction. 

I continue to stick with buy it if it makes you happy and you can afford to do that. I tend to think that for now, the price has hit something of a ceiling except in very high grades.  The 5.0 dropped after mine sold.  Again, I no longer own it. It is not the rocket it was 18-24 months ago.  I've gone back to Dr Strange, always a very odd comic in my mind. I love the spell balloons.  Clea was hot.  

 

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On 2/4/2019 at 9:06 PM, rckstr1253 said:

I love the artwork and that is the most iconic comic cover in my opinion.  I also find the purple label looks good on that particular comic

I certainly like the cover. I equate the content artwork to Doonesbury back around 1980. It was a jumping off point. It certainly got a lot better. 

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25 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I don't disagree with you, it does sound high. So, what if there are some serious hoards out there which would really mess with the day to day pricing of the comic.  When I've talked to dealers, they come to that 10K figure. I think when I sold mine, there were about 2800 in the census, that might be wrong. 

I think the trouble with the census currently used is that it simply does not include a vast number of sales of this, or of any book.  It strikes me that keeping sales, outliers or whatever out of the census really doesn't support a structure to really reliably gauge value in the book. Granted, it's popular. Also I continue to assert that it's not rare, just desired.   If people are really going to continue to put out the kind of cash for a copy, I think at some point realistic supply and demand has to kick in. The reality is that supply is a squishy subject and that should make demand squishy too if you are dealing in the kinds of numbers that it takes to buy one from an auction. 

I continue to stick with buy it if it makes you happy and you can afford to do that. I tend to think that for now, the price has hit something of a ceiling except in very high grades.  The 5.0 dropped after mine sold.  Again, I no longer own it. It is not the rocket it was 18-24 months ago.  I've gone back to Dr Strange, always a very odd comic in my mind. I love the spell balloons.  Clea was hot.  

 

You have to consider copies graded by the other companies. Also, copies that were crack and re-subbed without the old labels not being returned to CGC; hence,  will miscalculate the total. You did timed it well when you sold your 5.0 and your copy presented better than most 5.0s. Longer term within the next 3-5 years the book will rebound. Folks who bought during the 2008 spike, had to wait 3-5 years for the price to rebound and eventually eclipsing the old high. True, buy what you enjoy and if it appreciate 5-8 % average a year, that will be a bonus. AF15 is the blue chip of the Silver Age and continues to perform well in the long run.

Edited by showcase22gr1959

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15 hours ago, showcase22gr1959 said:

You have to consider copies graded by the other companies. Also, copies that were crack and re-subbed without the old labels not being returned to CGC; hence,  will miscalculate the total. You did timed it well when you sold your 5.0 and your copy presented better than most 5.0s. Longer term within the next 3-5 years the book will rebound. Folks who bought during the 2008 spike, had to wait 3-5 years for the price to rebound and eventually eclipsing the old high. True, buy what you enjoy and if it appreciate 5-8 % average a year, that will be a bonus. AF15 is the blue chip of the Silver Age and continues to perform well in the long run.

Multiple  submissions of the same book are a good way to screw with the census, I agree.  I always wonder about the non slabbed copies out there and there simply isn't a great way to get a handle on it. I do think that the value added tax essentially that is added on for a high value book by the slabbing companies is a disincentive for people holding copies on the long term to have them graded and slabbed at all. Particularly if one is not contemplating selling it.  Such sites as E bay certainly seem to keep coming up with a lot of unslabbed copies. I think a lot of people "Collect" the books when the term "Speculate" on them would be better. I kept things I was really attached to emotionally and sold the rest. At my age, having a certain amount of liquidity all the time is a good thing and I can't guarantee that with high value comics. When I took my collection to sell two years back, I was utterly naive about values. Initially I thought my old AF15 might be worth a couple of thousand bucks. I never could understand Iron Man 55 or ASM 129. What an education. When Bob came here to look at it, they were piled all over the dining room, no backer boards, no bags  just old comics I bought as a kid. I wanted to be able to read them. We spent two days on them. I really liked the ads on how to become popular learning to play the piano. For me it was a  10  year love affair. 

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3 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

Multiple  submissions of the same book are a good way to screw with the census, I agree.  I always wonder about the non slabbed copies out there and there simply isn't a great way to get a handle on it. I do think that the value added tax essentially that is added on for a high value book by the slabbing companies is a disincentive for people holding copies on the long term to have them graded and slabbed at all. Particularly if one is not contemplating selling it.  Such sites as E bay certainly seem to keep coming up with a lot of unslabbed copies. I think a lot of people "Collect" the books when the term "Speculate" on them would be better. I kept things I was really attached to emotionally and sold the rest. At my age, having a certain amount of liquidity all the time is a good thing and I can't guarantee that with high value comics. When I took my collection to sell two years back, I was utterly naive about values. Initially I thought my old AF15 might be worth a couple of thousand bucks. I never could understand Iron Man 55 or ASM 129. What an education. When Bob came here to look at it, they were piled all over the dining room, no backer boards, no bags  just old comics I bought as a kid. I wanted to be able to read them. We spent two days on them. I really liked the ads on how to become popular learning to play the piano. For me it was a  10  year love affair. 

I think the right comics are a great avenue for liquidity and maybe even retirement. As long as you spread it around, you'll be fine with blue chip comics as a part of any long term plan. 

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1 hour ago, peewee22 said:

I think the right comics are a great avenue for liquidity and maybe even retirement. As long as you spread it around, you'll be fine with blue chip comics as a part of any long term plan. 

well, If I wanted to sell a stock on Monday, I could be done in a short time.  If you were going to do the same with an AF15 monday and needed actual cash, How would you go about that? What kind of value do you think it would pull? 

Either way the cap gains suck but it's worse on comics. 

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I’d list my AF15 on eBay on open auction and let it ride . It would guaranteed get thousands starting at 1penny and wherever it ends it ends . It only really sucks for flippers coming in now which I never was . 

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34 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

I’d list my AF15 on eBay on open auction and let it ride . It would guaranteed get thousands starting at 1penny and wherever it ends it ends . It only really sucks for flippers coming in now which I never was . 

How long does that take? If I were to list a stock at 10:00Am, it would be sold pretty close to the list price at the time. It does vary. I was under the impression that auctions ran for a time period and unless you had a minimum, it could go for about anything. Is that not true?  I've yet to be impressed with an open ebay auction that exceeded market.  My point was about relative liquidity if you suddenly had to sell.  I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to know how it lands. . 

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5 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

well, If I wanted to sell a stock on Monday, I could be done in a short time.  If you were going to do the same with an AF15 monday and needed actual cash, How would you go about that? What kind of value do you think it would pull? 

Either way the cap gains suck but it's worse on comics. 

I said spread it around. Not all in comics. Not all in stocks. Not all in 401ks. Not all in cash. Diversify. 

We're sorry you sold your AF15. :baiting:

 

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3 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

How long does that take? If I were to list a stock at 10:00Am, it would be sold pretty close to the list price at the time. It does vary. I was under the impression that auctions ran for a time period and unless you had a minimum, it could go for about anything. Is that not true?  I've yet to be impressed with an open ebay auction that exceeded market.  My point was about relative liquidity if you suddenly had to sell.  I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to know how it lands. . 

It’s liquid enough for me. If I needed money same day well sounds like I’m in trouble if it’s a comic sale I’m dependent on ....well nuff said.

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