CGC Issue Resolved

[comicwiz]

Who are you talking about?

[slym2none]

Me, just then. I know something I bet a lot of people here know but aren't talking about it because why shoot themselves in the foot?

 

I have said too much already.

 

*zips lips*

 

 

 

-slym

[Jimmy Linguini]

Its ironic that one of the people talking about this was in the past discovered to have manipulated grades through resubmission.

 

I'm of course talking about what I refer to as popped staple gate.

[Bomber-Bob]

Me, just then. I know something I bet a lot of people here know but aren't talking about it because why shoot themselves in the foot?

 

I have said too much already.

 

*zips lips*

-slym

 

Being one of those that 'don't know' I am imagining all sorts of different possibilities to which you are refering to. Does your implication imply conspiracy, manipulation, collusion, payoffs ?? The 'shoot themselves in the foot' comment really scares me as I suspect you are talking about manipulation on a large scale. Scary.

[Spider-Dan]

The lesson Ive learned is since I don't press, to send the book for re-grade still in the slab. That way if resto is detected, I will have a much better leg to stand on.

 

Since there is no "P", and now the "C: is gone, would it be called the "R game"

[Bomber-Bob]

The lesson Ive learned is since I don't press, to send the book for re-grade still in the slab. That way if resto is detected, I will have a much better leg to stand on.

 

Since there is no "P", and now the "C: is gone, would it be called the "R game"

 

Next question, should the 'R' stand for Resubmit or Review ? Someone referenced the review process in this thread. I know CGC used to accomodate a Review but I was told they didn't want to publicize it = they prefer a submission. I remember doing it a couple times, you would submit it in the slab in the tier below what you would normally submit. Example, a walkthrough would be submitted as an Express. They would look at the book in the slab and decide whether it had a shot. If the answer was no, you only paid for the Express. If 'yes' I think you got bumped to the Walkthrough.

I suppose this could be a question directly asked to CGC but I am curious if others are doing it ?

[comeaux]

Without doubt, Dan is a reputable guy from all of the comments by respected members here on the boards but it seems that this decision by CGC could open them up to potential scammers who own two copies of the same book, one being blue label and one being purple label.

 

They could crack and submit the restored book and maybe get lucky that it comes back blue and if not then they could just claim the book was previously in a blue label as they have a blue label for backup if needed.

 

I’m not condoning this at all but there are many scam artists out there always looking for a way to get over on someone.

 

[comeaux]

Separating hypothetical vs reality, a 2 for 2 count is a staggering statistic.

 

I agree, staggering enough to convince me the probability is much higher than 1% … I would like to optimistically think the probability could be as low as 1% but I doubt it, two books from two completely different sources and BOTH are found to have restoration ?

[Sqeggs]

The lesson Ive learned is since I don't press, to send the book for re-grade still in the slab. That way if resto is detected, I will have a much better leg to stand on.

 

Since there is no "P", and now the "C: is gone, would it be called the "R game"

 

Next question, should the 'R' stand for Resubmit or Review ? Someone referenced the review process in this thread. I know CGC used to accomodate a Review but I was told they didn't want to publicize it = they prefer a submission. I remember doing it a couple times, you would submit it in the slab in the tier below what you would normally submit. Example, a walkthrough would be submitted as an Express. They would look at the book in the slab and decide whether it had a shot. If the answer was no, you only paid for the Express. If 'yes' I think you got bumped to the Walkthrough.

I suppose this could be a question directly asked to CGC but I am curious if others are doing it ?

 

Did they really used to do this? It seems to amount to their saying, "We graded it wrong the first time, but pay the fees again and we'll be more accurate this time."

[VintageComics]

Separating hypothetical vs reality, a 2 for 2 count is a staggering statistic.

 

I agree, staggering enough to convince me the probability is much higher than 1% … I would like to optimistically think the probability could be as low as 1% but I doubt it, two books from two completely different sources and BOTH are found to have restoration ?

 

So you guys are saying that 1 in 100 books (or more) have missed resto?

 

I'm going to have to say absolutely, positively, unequivocally no freaking way.

 

I've easily resubbed, heard of resubbed or know people who have resubbed 100's of books without a single book coming back with missed resto.

 

That would put my personal observations at less than 1%. If it was even at just an even 1% you'd be hearing wailing and gnashing of teeth from every corner of the internet.

 

I used the 1% number as a round number but I do believe that it's a much smaller number - meaning a small fraction of a percentage point.

 

And again, I think it's important to note that all of the examples I've seen so far were old labels - meaning they were graded before 2004.

[Spider-Dan]

Separating hypothetical vs reality, a 2 for 2 count is a staggering statistic.

 

I agree, staggering enough to convince me the probability is much higher than 1% … I would like to optimistically think the probability could be as low as 1% but I doubt it, two books from two completely different sources and BOTH are found to have restoration ?

 

So you guys are saying that 1 in 100 books (or more) have missed resto?

 

I'm going to have to say absolutely, positively, unequivocally no freaking way.

 

I've easily resubbed, heard of resubbed or know people who have resubbed 100's of books without a single book coming back with missed resto.

 

That would put my personal observations at less than 1%. If it was even at just an even 1% you'd be hearing wailing and gnashing of teeth from every corner of the internet.

 

I used the 1% number as a round number but I do believe that it's a much smaller number - meaning a small fraction of a percentage point.

 

And again, I think it's important to note that all of the examples I've seen so far were old labels - meaning they were graded before 2004.

 

The JIM that I re-subbed was graded in 2007. New Label - Just FYI

[VintageComics]

The JIM that I re-subbed was graded in 2007. New Label - Just FYI

 

Ah, I missed that. Sorry.

 

The majority that I know of were old labels though.

[roulette44]

Yeah, i'm with Roy here - this is going to be negligible otherwise there'd be many more examples out there.......negligle is may between 1/1000 and 1/10000 (0.1% to 0.01%)

 

 

[VintageComics]

Yeah, i'm with Roy here - this is going to be negligible otherwise there'd be many more examples out there.......negligle is may between 1/1000 and 1/10000 (0.1% to 0.01%)

 

 

Hey, what do you know about math and statistics?

 

Damn actuaries.

 

[maloney414]

This has been an educational thread, but it's really long so I think it's time for a recap:

 

1.) Spider-Dan buys slabbed books in blue labels.

 

2.) Cracks them out and sends them in for regarding.

 

3.) Results are:

- Avengers 1 Blue CGC 7.0 comes back Purple CGC 6.0 (Color Touched)

- JIM book Blue CGC 6.0 comes back Purple CGC 7.0 (Trimmed)

 

3.) Other boardies post here in the thread they have had restoration mistakes as well. Some comment that it has happened several times to them:

 

- VintageComics (page 2)

- Gambit (page 11)

- Lord Rahl (page 11)

- Namisgr (Page 23)

- Bleuhawaii (page 24)

- Spider-Dan comments it happened once before on a GA Batman (page 33)

 

Click on spoiler tag to read their actual comments:

 

 

It rarely happens but it does happen. It's happened to me.

 

 

Happened to me once before on a big money book.. I was pretty upset, but took the loss and re sold the book as is (Purple resto label).. When it happens is usually very minor color touch that some how slipped through the cracks, however the trimmed part is what scares me!.. that should never "slip" through! and id be irate if it did! (IMO the worse type of resto out there is trimmed books!)

 

 

The trimmed one could be a false positive. I had a copy of Iron Man Sub Mariner 1 that I bought from the original owner several years ago. It came back 9.6 Trimmed. Now I knew for a fact that the book was not trimmed but it did have a funky cut. So I sent it back and it came back a 9.6 Blue. Especially with trimming, it can be tricky and no one can catch it 100% of the time. Other times, you can jump at shadows.

 

The CT baffles me though. That should have been caught the first time.

 

Either way, sorry that happened, expensive books to have it happen to. And 2 at the same time

 

I read through this but now can't find the questions. But I think this is the answer.

 

Namisgr had an ASM 129 that he purchased off the newsstand. He submitted the book 3-4 times, and the last time it came back PLOD with CT.

 

I remember this but I don't recall him submitting it 3 - 4 times. I just thought it was his personal raw copy, bought off the stands, and it came back 1st time as PLOD.

 

It was the ASM #121 I bought off the rack. It was graded 'right edge trimmed'. (My ASM #129 came back 9.6 blue label )

 

It's not the only comic I've had graded where the restoration and trimming assessments were botched. In the early days of CGC, I cracked all of my slabbed purchases out, only to resubmit them years later for purposes of selling them. A couple of those changed label colors upon regrading.

 

Bottom line? CGC does the best job that they can with detecting restoration and trimming, but they are not infallable and make mistakes. Given that they make mistakes, any resubmission of a blue label comic runs the risk of changing label color upon regrading. Either the first or the second grading could be the accurate one.

 

Not to muddy the waters even further but this has happened to me as well. I resubbed my resub and it went from EXTENSIVE resto to MODERATE. I didn't get the graders notes from the first time so I don't know what the difference was.

 

Lets clear a few things up...

As I stated earlier in this thread, I did have this happen once before, a Batman went from Blue to Purple. It was implied that GA are held to different grading standard. So Ive only had 1 thread, not thread"s". Ive had quite a few books drop in grade without complaining here on the Boards, because I do know the risks involved.

 

 

4.) We get an update from Spider-Dan that he can resend his books IF he pays to do so…. (page 50)

 

 

 

Update - I just talked to CGC, and they told me they would be glad to look them over again, but I would have to pay another submission fee

 

 

5.) Apparently, the resto misses are old news to the veterans that submit a lot.

 

From page 51:

 

The posts here that express their expectation CGC be 100% perfect with their restoration and trimming detection are missing the point that CGC is not now, has never been, and has never claimed to be perfect in these regards.. They have stated clearly that while they believe they do an outstanding job with detecting restoration and trimming (and I have no reason to doubt this), they are fallible and sometimes err.

 

Once that concept is understood, it is also easy to understand that every resubmission comes with the small risk that not only the grade but also the label color may change upon re-grading.

 

+1. Stinks when it happens but it happens.

 

Which is exactly why people were posting here that they lost some level of confidence in CGC. Because they did have the belief that CGC would be able to detect things like CT 100% of the time.

 

I think so far that was the biggest eye opener for people reading this thread. Learning this from the big submitters. That it does happen, and is part of the risk.

 

 

6.) The thread becomes a “Bleeding Cool” news story. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/02/16/whats-in-a-cgc-slabbed-book-anyway/

 

7.) After the "Bleeding Cool" article, CGC agrees to recheck the books for Spider-Dan and they reach some private agreement. Spider-Dan claims they came to a reasonable resolution but will not be sharing the details publicly.

 

Just wanted to let everyone know, that both books were re-checked today, and both were restored. They were checked and checked again

 

While it doesn't say much for the grading a few years ago, it at least gives me confidence in the grading consistency today.

 

Harshen called me personally to give me the bad news. After a nice conversation, and many apologies, we came to a reasonable resolution.

 

Im not going to go into details, but I will say Harshen went above and beyond to take care of this.

 

It doesn't change the fact that there are books out there in blue labels that could have resto on them, but I feel much better about CGC's customer service

 

Maybe they readjusted his grading fees

Maybe they compensated him for the difference in value between the Blue labels to Purple labels, but don’t want it public to avoid setting a precedent.

At this point it doesn’t matter.

 

8.) Lessons learned:

 

- CGC misses resto sometimes (see #5 above) It happens.

 

- If you "Crack Press Resub" there is risk the book may come back PLOD. What level of risk is still being debated.

 

- If you are resubmitting an expensive book without pressing it 1st, keep it in the slab when you submit. It’s the only way CGC will believe you didn’t add the resto yourself in this type situation.

 

 

 

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

[etanick]

 

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

100% certain you can since that was how Matt done it for years....Matt liked to see the book in a slab, examined the book to see if the upgrade is worth cracking before he wasted people's money.

 

Full disclose, 5 years ago I had 2 slabs that I wanted his opinions so I mailed him the slabs...he advised that one shouldn't be crack and one is upgradable so I authorized him to CPR one and return the other one.

 

[maloney414]

 

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

100% certain you can since that was how Matt done it for years....Matt liked to see the book in a slab, examined the book to see if the upgrade is worth cracking before he wasted people's money.

 

Full disclose, 5 years ago I had 2 slabs that I wanted his opinions so I mailed him the slabs...he advised that one shouldn't be crack and one is upgradable so I authorized him to CPR one and return the other one.

 

 

Yes, you can send Matt books in the slab for him to evaluate if they are good restoration candidates.

 

I'm referring to the protection that if the Blue label book becomes a Purple label book due to missed resto the 1st time. In this scenario, Matt would have been sent the book for his pressing service.

[comeaux]

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

10.) If an expensive Universal resubbed would come back as restored will CGC make reparations?

[ChrisInBaltimore]

9.) Questions unanswered: If you play the CPR game and you want an expensive book pressed, can you send the book to Matt Nelson still in the blue slab and still have this protection? Since his organization is part of CGC now.

 

10.) If an expensive Universal resubbed would come back as restored will CGC make reparations?

 

If you go back in this thread, it sounds like they sort of did with Spider Dan.

[Spider-Dan]

The JIM that I re-subbed was graded in 2007. New Label - Just FYI

 

Ah, I missed that. Sorry.

 

The majority that I know of were old labels though.

 

(thumbs u