If Captain America #1 surpasses Marvel #1, Can Tec #27 surpass Action #1?

[Silver Surfer]

A little more food for thought.

 

In terms of All-Time USA Box Office figures, The Dark Knight ranks 4th and the the Dark Knight Rises ranks 7th -- Man of Steel ranks 56th. The decision to add a new Batman to the MOS universe strikes me as a sign of DC's lack of faith in Superman as a solo character. Even if Ben Affleck doesn't prove to be a great Batman, people will come to theaters to see Batman.

 

When Batman Forever hit theaters in 1995, it had the largest opening of ALL-TIME.

 

It wasn't a great film, but it does speak to the love fans of all generations have for the character.

 

Unfortunately, the last two superman movies were sub par. If the Man of Steel movie were half as good as it could have been, this wouldn't even be a conversation. There was a feeling amongst collectors at one point that movies would only have a short term effect on comic prices. That does not appear to be the case any more as slight "bumps" pre movie turn into a sustained rise in value if the movie is as popular as was batman series (and many marvel).

 

 

It doesn't help that DC doesn't have a clue how to build a character or story lines that are enduring, generally speaking. Watch Romita add some life to the Superman franchise.

 

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of a resurgence in interest in MC#1 as it can't really go much lower than it has in recent years. Marvel has cleverly laid the ground work for future movies [The Torch appearance in the Cap movie, Dr. Doom sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the last FF movie - FF#4-6 here we come?] A well made Sub-Mariner movie or a cameo appearance in a future FF movie could start the ball rolling.

 

[Sqeggs]

Just browsing through Wikipedia, they have sales of Captain Marvel at 1.3 million per issue in the early 1940s and sales of Superman at 1 million per issue. Sources seems a little shaky. I'm trying to recall whether publishers in those days were obliged to publish circulation figures as they were in later years.

 

Part of the problem was the way sales were reported back then. For example, DC used to report the sales of Action, Adventure, Detective, and More Fun as a single group - making it hard to peg individual numbers.

In Ian Gordon's book he quotes Donenfeld as saying that by 1940 Action had sales of 900,000 copies (which was equal to about 10% of the existing market) and that by the time Superman went to a bi-monthly that sales were 1,250,000 an issue with a yearly gross of $950,000 (which would put sales at over 1.5 million per issue).

 

Those numbers would put Superman right in Captain Marvel's ballpark, and I've always felt that Donenfeld purposely under-reported the numbers since the company was so often in dispute with Siegel and Shuster over sales/payments.

 

But to show how the Mouse & Duck were king though, WDC&S and Uncle Scrooge not only were the only comics to maintain 1,000,000+ circulation through the entire decade of the 50s, they were the last two comics to average sales of 1,000,000 per issue for an entire year - 1960.

(Superman's avg in 1960 was just over 800,000 per issue by comparison).

 

Too bad Carl Barks didn't benefit more from those sales.

[rob_react]

A little more food for thought.

 

In terms of All-Time USA Box Office figures, The Dark Knight ranks 4th and the the Dark Knight Rises ranks 7th -- Man of Steel ranks 56th. The decision to add a new Batman to the MOS universe strikes me as a sign of DC's lack of faith in Superman as a solo character. Even if Ben Affleck doesn't prove to be a great Batman, people will come to theaters to see Batman.

 

When Batman Forever hit theaters in 1995, it had the largest opening of ALL-TIME.

 

It wasn't a great film, but it does speak to the love fans of all generations have for the character.

 

Unfortunately, the last two superman movies were sub par. If the Man of Steel movie were half as good as it could have been, this wouldn't even be a conversation. There was a feeling amongst collectors at one point that movies would only have a short term effect on comic prices. That does not appear to be the case any more as slight "bumps" pre movie turn into a sustained rise in value if the movie is as popular as was batman series (and many marvel).

 

 

It doesn't help that DC doesn't have a clue how to build a character or story lines that are enduring, generally speaking. Watch Romita add some life to the Superman franchise.

 

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of a resurgence in interest in MC#1 as it can't really go much lower than it has in recent years. Marvel has cleverly laid the ground work for future movies [The Torch appearance in the Cap movie, Dr. Doom sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the last FF movie - FF#4-6 here we come?] A well made Sub-Mariner movie or a cameo appearance in a future FF movie could start the ball rolling.

 

MC #1 has crazy upside right now. It was on par with the rest of the big keys fifteen years ago. They've since tripled or quadrupled and MC #1 has dropped or stayed level. I'm not sure that anything will happen to jump start the book, but I'd feel much more comfortable buying that book right now over one of the other titles that have seen incredible surges over the past few years.

[Wayne-Tec]

I've been giving the whole Action #1 vs. Tec #27 debate a lot of thought over the past few days. IMO, it's not about any two books, but more so a conversation about where certain books are heading in general. Despite my arguments in favor of Tec #27, books featuring characters with greater modern-day success, etc. I do have a great appreciation for the grails of yesteryear. I still get goosebumps when I see a Whiz #2, MF #52 or Adventure #40—and it doesn't really matter that they've yet to receive the modern day box office treatment.

 

I think it's more a matter of what Batman (perhaps the best example) is doing right than what others are doing wrong. Bad superhero movies don't really lessen my love for the characters. I've often said that I'd rather see a bad Superman movie than no movie at all. But for characters who are well represented in modern-day, they certainly get a strong, added bonus in my book. Consider great films, TV shows and video games to be regular remainders of how great the character is, and how cool their original GA books are.

 

The question then becomes, how do you balance an appreciation for history with good/bad/nonexistent modern day representations? I think that in the case of Batman and Superman, where Action #1 and Tec #27 are already close in value, the nod can go to (depending on your preference of course) the character you grew up loving, the character that has soared past the previous gold standard.

 

There are only a select few GA books scarce enough and historic enough to be in the running amongst the most valuable in the hobby. With as popular as Batman is, I don't see his 20th appearance as superseding a lesser character's 1st. But could I see the origin of Batman (Tec #33) superseding the 1st app. of the Flash? Yes.

 

There's no right or wrong answer of course. I hope that the 1st appearances of other characters still command strong interest. How they will fare in comparison to early Batman and Superman books remains to be seen. The same will also be the case between the top Batman and Superman books.

[BR-migration]

Maybe someday someone finds a 9.8. Detective then maybe, maybe.

 

Batman is clearly way more popular than Superman....but....you can't teach height. Action Comics #1 will always comes first, and will always be more historically significant, even if Man of Steel 5 stars The Weather Wizard and makes ten bucks. Though popularity definitely has boosted Batman, Superman will always be the first and that's something that can't be removed from any collectible commodity so closely aligned with historical value. I think.

[Foxtrot70]

If George Lucas was to remake the Man from Atlantis from 70s perhaps we would see a huge explosion on Subby interest...