drbanner 22,169 posts Posted March 10, 2013 There's a thread in Silver that folks need to be made aware of - Insane press and flip Avengers 1. Props to spiderphill for keeping tabs on this seller, looks like it's been going on for a while. In a nutshell, ebay seller "collectors_comics" is somehow managing to realign the spine of books (Batman 1, Avengers 1, Showcase 22, etc.,.) to shift the spine wear to the back cover, and apparently CGC doesn't downgrade as much for the exact same defects on the back cover as on the front cover. Here's the result, before (CGC 8.5) And after (notice the book has been squashed and the pages unnaturally extend beyond the right edge of the cover): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaven Kev-migration 4,914 posts Posted March 10, 2013 That is fugly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brendanb438 3,676 posts Posted March 10, 2013 As mentioned in the other thread it looks like this black eye of the hobby has been going on for a while now and this seller in question may be one of the biggest players in gaming these books. Really does take pressing to a whole new level and shows a big flaw in how CGC grades books. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MisterX 2,101 posts Posted March 10, 2013 It's a Frankenbook. Not just pressed, or restored, but tampered with to create a totally brand new spine. Hopefully no one will be crazy enough to buy it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gotham Kid 24,621 posts Posted March 10, 2013 Brought it over to CG (thumbs u Maximum exposure on this seller. Check out his other ebay listings for more telltale signs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
passion4comics 2,213 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I was reading that last night and looking at the photos over too much Jack Daniels to start posting. You have to have a steel pair to pull a 10k plus book and then start tugging and pulling on it. My question is, is this the same book. Most say yes. Here are my problems: CGC doesn't grade on wrap. That's CVA's new job. This 8.5 (which people are even questioning that grade), especially since CGC's new tightening may have got it an 8.0. Spine ticks are very obvious and will dump a grade, but CGC is supposed to grade the front AND back. I've bought some nice 9.2's that should have been 9.6 and the back is where the points were lost. Great front eye appeal; low grade. HOW DID the person grading this book not note the back defects that were pushed from the front cover? I think CGC was not expecting this. Maybe they grade on front eye appeal over back covers? Either way, we now know what to look for when buying high end books. If the cover wrap is wrong and we see too many interior pages showing, we can assume that this book was realigned with a press. You do have to give the guy some credit. It took a huge pair to buy, crack, and to come up with the idea no matter how distasteful it is to collectors that prefer books as they are. Personally, the book is worth less to me than its 8.5 price now that I know it's been tampered with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gotham Kid 24,621 posts Posted March 10, 2013 Seller is after the label chasers. Buy the freakin' book, not the label. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TupennyConan 38,810 posts Posted March 10, 2013 Here's the result, before (CGC 8.5) I don't care for the look of the 8.5. That's a 7.5 spine & top corner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buuduh 903 posts Posted March 10, 2013 That's crazy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drbanner 22,169 posts Posted March 10, 2013 Here's the result, before (CGC 8.5) I don't care for the look of the 8.5. That's a 7.5 spine & top corner. I agree...I liberally opined that it was an 8.0 in the other thread, but given the dozen visible spine stresses, the mid-spine color flaking, the 1" edge crease at the top edge of the book in the logo box, and the corner abrasion at both the top and bottom of the spine, 7.5 is probably closer to being accurate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flaming_Telepath 35,984 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I'm only surprised that anybody's surprised. This is simply a natural progression and there will be more to come. Oh, and for those who think CGC's standards haven't slipped over the years, please explain how a 7.5 is now in a 9.2 holder? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BEAUMONTS 2,914 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I would love to be a "member" does the new owner of this "beauty" know something or somebody that the "normal" everyday CGC submitter doesn't? You be the judge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gotham Kid 24,621 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I wonder if this Avengers #1 didn't undergo the same "treatment" ? Linky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waylander 6,852 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I wonder if this Avengers #1 didn't undergo the same "treatment" ? Linky The staples look in line with the spine, not pushed around if spine is pressed to the back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davenport 6,718 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I'm only surprised that anybody's surprised. This is simply a natural progression and there will be more to come. Yeah, it's weird anyone is shocked. With every 'non-additive' tweak under the sun allowed, bumps like that IS 'the Game'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
passion4comics 2,213 posts Posted March 10, 2013 After knowing what to look for, I would say yes, this has been going on for a while. If he would have waited for the photos to expire off EBay we would be clueless to it. I wonder if this Avengers #1 didn't undergo the same "treatment" ? Linky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namisgr 35,510 posts Posted March 10, 2013 The back cover extends WAY beyond the front cover. It's either been manipulated (most likely), or had a nasty but natural spine roll flattened out by a pressing (least likely, since a press would be an opportunity to properly realign the spine). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gotham Kid 24,621 posts Posted March 10, 2013 After knowing what to look for, I would say yes, this has been going on for a while. If he would have waited for the photos to expire off EBay we would be clueless to it. I wonder if this Avengers #1 didn't undergo the same "treatment" ? Linky Different seller though he may have caught on to the technique used ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drbanner 22,169 posts Posted March 10, 2013 I've been pondering getting this book restored for a while now...but let's keep it blue please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 42,380 posts Posted March 10, 2013 After knowing what to look for, I would say yes, this has been going on for a while. If he would have waited for the photos to expire off EBay we would be clueless to it. I wonder if this Avengers #1 didn't undergo the same "treatment" ? Linky Different seller though he may have caught on to the technique used ... Or they use the same pressing service. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
