EBAY: BLOCKED USER LIST 54 54

[wombat]

For the record I don't care what a seller lists something at. If I don't like it I just move on. And I think the same about offers. Don't like it then just move on. Everybody goes about their business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You can keep saying there is a difference and I can keep saying there isn't.

 

Yes, we both can keep doing that, true.

 

Saying I am not looking at it the right way and you are doesn't get us anywhere.

 

True, but that's not what I said. You're not looking at it "the wrong way"...you are correct: if you look at it on the surface, both sides would appear to be guilty of "looking for a sucker" and, in that respect, of being "disrespectful."

 

I do not disagree with your basic contention, on the surface.

 

But it's not that simple, and there are several broader issues involved. The privilege of property ownership, for one. Degree of "disrespect" for another. Motive, for another. It's not as simple as you're suggesting.

 

 

here's the motivation for the lowball offer (buyer): I want to buy as cheaply as possible, hopefully get lucky. If not, it doesn't really cost me anything, so why not.

 

 

here's the possible motivations for a high high asking price (seller), in no particular order:

1. Want to get lucky and catch a sucker.

2. Unsure of value, want to get offers and get an idea of value (possibly for insurance).

3. I want to display this to those ebay peons and I get off on people making offers for something that those losers can never own.

4. I'm selling this for how much I paid for it.

5. I'm crazy and genuinely think this is how much its worth.

6. I know the price is higher than market, but I'm really attached to this item and its kinda rare, but if someone made me an offer at this price I wouldn't be able to turn it down. So why not leave it up at that price, doesn't cost me anything.

 

 

Are most probably in the camp of Motivation 1? Probably. But I don't think its unfathomable to be in any of the other camps. I know I've done a few myself at #4 and #6, and know people who have done #2. There's probably some reasonable things I've left out too. Suffice it to say that while most have financial motivations for posting ANYTHING on ebay at ANY price, that not all motivations (financial or otherwise) fall in the category of 'trying to catch a sucker'.

 

By the way, I don't see anything wrong with selling an item you own for any price, as long as you don't misrepresent it. It may just be a strategy, and some strategies are obviously better than others. Judging peoples attempts to profit on luxury/recreational/hobby items seems like a huge waste of time and energy. If the strategy is wrong, the market will correct it. And if that seller ends up losing money, they will correct it. Or not. Doesn't affect me either way. Who has the time to judge the business/marketing strategy of everyone they come in contact with?

 

Yes, this addresses much of the broader issues involved, thanks Revat.

 

Here's some more:

 

Wombat says: "It's just as disrespectful to ask a ridiculous price for an item as it is to make a lowball offer."

 

Not true.

 

The most important reason why that isn't true is ownership: this item belongs to the seller, and it is his to dispose of in any way he sees fit. If he wants to ask a million dollars for a $100 item, that's his right. It's his. It belongs to him. That is the privilege of ownership, that diminishes, if not entirely negates, the "disrespect" aspect of asking an unreasonable price, without even going into motive.

 

And he is the one who, when considering selling the item, has to come up with an asking price, not the prospective buyer. The buyer doesn't own it, and has no right to set the asking price of an item that he doesn't own. That is the seller's prerogative.

 

On the surface, yes, both scenarios may appear be an attempt to take advantage of others, and be disrespectful in that manner. But it isn't always the case for the seller, as Revat laid out, while it IS ALWAYS the case for the lowball offering buyer.

 

Why? The key, major difference is that the seller has set the asking price of the item. The buyer, therefore, has a starting point, a foundation, to work from, that the seller did not have. He/she knows from the start what the seller wants or expects, whether it is reasonable or not.

 

Therefore, the prospective buyer has an advantage over the seller: the prospective buyer knows the price upfront.

 

So, if the buyer can see the price the seller wants...reasonable or not...and decides to make a lowball offer, they are being disrespectful to the seller, because they already know fully well what the seller would like, and then completely ignore that, in an attempt to secure the item for much less than what it is currently "worth." It is open contempt, and says to the seller "I don't give a flat damn what you're asking, this is what I'm offering, take it or leave it."

 

(To be sure, now, we're only talking about lowball offers, offers that are, by definition, substantially lower than established fair market value.)

 

Of course, it's never expressed that way openly, but always couched as "well, gosh, here's my offer, I hope you can accept it!"...but behind the façade is (almost) always the contempt for the seller's asking price, hidden or not.

 

The seller, when establishing a price, had to do research (if they are a decent seller) to figure out what they wanted, and what was reasonable (to them), for the item in question. Dismissing that price, therefore, to make a lowball offer is contemptuous of the seller's time and effort. Does a buyer face the same kind of contempt from the overpriced seller? No, because the buyer is never obligated to make the purchase, and, indeed, not even obligated to do any research on the price. That's the prerogative of the buyer.

 

The seller is ALWAYS obligated to come up with a price (for direct offers, like BINs and whatnot.)

 

The prerogative of the buyer is to determine if the item is fairly priced (to them) or not. That's the advantage every buyer has (and why NOT pricing the item, and expecting the buyer to come up with a price, is the corollary to making a lowball offer. It's not the buyer's responsibility to come up with the price. It's the seller's. If the seller doesn't, a buyer is perfectly within his/her rights to offer 10 cents for a $10,000 item.)

 

The "sucker" aspect is thus of a different type and level. If a seller asks a crazy price deliberately hoping for a sucker, they're hoping for someone who is ignorant of the market, and doesn't know better, and (this is critical)...can't be bothered to do even the slightest bit of research to find out if the asking price is a fair one or not. Many buyers paying "ridiculous" prices don't care; they just want the item. You can't fault a seller for that. There is no gun to anyone's head to buy any item at any price (at least, not yet.)

 

On the other hand, if a buyer makes a lowball offer, they are hoping that the seller is desperate enough to accept such an offer in the face of an already established price from the seller.

 

So which is worse? (Potentially) preying upon the willfully ignorant? Or deliberately preying upon the desperate?

 

 

You could say "well, the buyer is making a lowball offer because they can't afford more! They're not trying to rip the seller off...they're just offering what they can pay!"

 

If the buyer can't afford the item, 1. they should stick to what they CAN afford, and 2. why are they trying to buy luxury, non-essential items that are worth more than they can afford in the first place?

 

That answer, while an interesting theory, never holds water in real life. If you can't afford something you want, either find something you can afford, or save up until you can afford the more expensive item (or, do what everyone else does, and buy it on credit. )

 

The problem with the lowball buyer, Revat, in saying "it doesn't cost me anything" is that it sometimes does, in not so obvious ways. For example...that person who made a $50 offer on my $2,000 book (CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 SS by the way)...? They've been blocked. They won't be able to make offers any more.

 

They may not care. They may never be interested in anything else I have, but if they ever are, they won't be able to do business with me. Again, chances are, they won't, but...I HAVE had people who were blocked for making lowball offers who came back later wanting to buy something, and I turned them down (Ironman4472, for example, who is a member here.)

 

So, it *can* cost them something down the line. Plus, there's also the fact that I do tell people who make silly lowball offers, and they might do the same thing. Donmeca, for example, will never be able to buy anything from me. Not because I dislike him personally, or have any personal problem with him, but because I don't like the way he conducts himself with others. It's purely a business decision.

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the record I don't care what a seller lists something at. If I don't like it I just move on. And I think the same about offers. Don't like it then just move on. Everybody goes about their business.

 

I don't think anybody has suggested anything differently, here. I know I haven't. Elektra101 was silly to get upset about Donmeca's extreme lowball. He should have just blocked him and moved on.

 

We're just discussing philosophy.

[wombat]

Even after reading all that I don't agree with you. Ownership does not negate anything in my opinion. heck, I own my offer. So I should get the same get out of jail card.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Even after reading all that I don't agree with you. Ownership does not negate anything in my opinion. heck, I own my offer. So I should get the same get out of jail card.

 

Surely you're not suggesting "owning an offer" is the same thing as owning a piece of tangible property...?

 

 

Nevertheless, as I said, whether you own your offer or not (or whether there is even such a thing AS "owning an offer"), when you disregard the seller's asking price to make a lowball offer, it's much worse than a seller asking an unreasonable price. The first is a direct act of contempt...the second is a passive request. They're not the same thing.

[wombat]

Even after reading all that I don't agree with you. Ownership does not negate anything in my opinion. heck, I own my offer. So I should get the same get out of jail card.

 

Surely you're not suggesting "owning an offer" is the same thing as owning a piece of tangible property...?

 

 

Nevertheless, as I said, whether you own your offer or not (or whether there is even such a thing AS "owning an offer"), when you disregard the seller's asking price to make a lowball offer, it's much worse than a seller asking an unreasonable price. The first is a direct act of contempt...the second is a passive request. They're not the same thing.

 

Sure I am. Seller gets to own the asking price. Buyer gets to own the offer price.

 

I think they are the same thing. Right back where we started.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Even after reading all that I don't agree with you. Ownership does not negate anything in my opinion. heck, I own my offer. So I should get the same get out of jail card.

 

Surely you're not suggesting "owning an offer" is the same thing as owning a piece of tangible property...?

 

 

Nevertheless, as I said, whether you own your offer or not (or whether there is even such a thing AS "owning an offer"), when you disregard the seller's asking price to make a lowball offer, it's much worse than a seller asking an unreasonable price. The first is a direct act of contempt...the second is a passive request. They're not the same thing.

 

Sure I am. Seller gets to own the asking price. Buyer gets to own the offer price.

 

No, the seller owns the item. Owning a tangible piece of property is not the same thing as "owning" an intangible concept.

 

I think they are the same thing. Right back where we started.

 

Well, hey, lots of people still believe the earth is a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars revolve.

 

[wombat]

The smart people believe that. The sheep buy into the round earth hoax.

[Illustrious]

Completely agree with RMA here.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I think it is a bad idea to assume disrespect from either buyer or seller simply because of the price point of a single offer.

 

It is far easier to set auto decline as a seller if for some reason you feel "disrespected" below $XXXX price point. Much easier than wading through all of the insufficiently_thoughtful_person imo (but not necessarily disrespectful) pricing on ebay.

[fastballspecial]

Juicy as a steak this thead!

 

[fastballspecial]

Too many words make Hulk head hurt.

 

[01TheDude]

Ebay username: escaflown4

 

This guy didn't read the description carefully and decided he didn't want the item after receiving it and asked for a return/refund. OK, annoying but fine and I agreed to it and asked him to return the item, promising to refund him when received. All good so far, but he then files a paypal dispute which of course throws my account into a negative balance, so now I can't do any business using Paypal. I have some other transactions I needed to complete which I now can't.

 

Note to buyers...if you're in a situation like this and the buyer is nice and cooperative, don't file a dispute. It will f up their finances temporarily and will just make them angry and less cooperative

 

Oat Willy, I guess you never thought I happen to be a board member. So for everyone else that wants a clarification, here are the facts from my side.

 

I am assuming he is referring to the following auction since that's the only item I have initiated a return request on.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVIL-ERNIE-1991-92-Eternity-Mini-Series-1-5-1st-LADY-DEATH-/121681830184?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=n2GhZLDVL556jUvAIKQ9ErCZbNc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

Normally I don't bother with returning items unless I feel the books are grossly over graded compared to what was advertised which happens to be the case here. He advertised issue #1 as VF+ but it was more of a Fine / Fine+ condition. I just like how he twisted the situation claiming I didn't read the description and am returning it just because I felt like it. Sorry my friend, I got better things to do with my spare time.

 

Now let's get to the second part. I sent him a message telling him that I would like to return the books since I feel they are over graded. After I didn't hear back from him, I initiated a return request through eBay hoping to get a response back. He did respond back later that day to my original eBay message stating that he is out of town and can take care of it on 7/13. I responded back that I am ok with this. Now I never initiated any type of PayPal dispute which he is claiming. The only thing I did was start a return request through eBay and that was it. I do not know why his PayPal account went into negative balance nor was this any of my intentions. Again, I just like how this was twisted in his version of the story in which he stated he replied first and I opened a PayPal dispute afterward which is far from the truth.

 

I would definitely like to hear more on what Oat Willy has to say now that the facts have been brought out from the other side of the table. If this was all a misunderstanding, then I would like to get this resolved amicably.

 

 

 

This has been my problem with this thread and its predecessor from the beginning. There are always two sides to every story. I'm against encouraging others to dump giant unvetted wads of eBay users into their blocked buyers list. Add in the power of Google and the popularity of this site, and this thread has the ability to really hurt someone who is innocently tarnished.

 

Want a great example of this? The predecessor to this thread was started by a guy who soon found his own eBay account on the list. And as with most of the accused, it was simply added to the list without any discussion or vetting.

 

I whole heartedly agree with this post. I've never given this thread much mind and think it just breeds negativity on the boards. I believe Sharon also made a really solid post about how it was just a negative thread.

Use the eBay feedback system.

 

First of all -- I don't think you are thinking about how to use this thread correctly. If you simply use it as a way to look at current comic book buyers on eBay -- so that you can judge for yourself with a little bit of research-- you can use it to avoid dealing with some real clown buyers out there. If you find someone is overly harsh on their "block this guy" argument-- you don't have to block them.

 

Secondly- if you just rely on eBay feedback, you are not zeroing in on the comic book buying market or the behavior of those buyers themselves. Maybe this person is great at purchasing clothes or shoes but is a complete clown when it comes to comic books.

 

Also-- this threads allows sellers on eBay to be proactive towards people they have not yet come across. We have found numerous times where the same buyer has boned several of us on eBay deals and spreading the word on them allows those who have not been harmed to avoid them.

 

You can take the thread for what it is worth-- sometimes a way to vent frustration over a sale, sometimes a warning system to watch out for so and so buyer/seller, and other times general eBay selling advice. It does not require someone to administer it - those of us who keep up with it regularly use it to add new people to our block list (or not to) all the time.

[porcupine48]

Juicy as a steak this thead!

 

with A1 sauce.

[thecopperagekids]

He kept senting me several messages BEFORE it was sold wanting to buy it for first 150

then 200. That same day I sold for 740 I emailed him. YES to gloat about making 740.

only because he was a "BLANK BLANK" with no brains and very unrealistic pricing.

 

 

YES i admit it. I did brag about

selling the book

 

still his response was strange/weird/ or whatever

 

started weird / ended weird....

 

I guess its in my nature to mess with people sometimes. )

 

Elektra101

 

Let's not forget i DIDN'T send you a message.... i made an offer, then you declined with you offer afterwords i made another offer with a message. The way I interpreted via the way you posted it on here as if i messaged you PRIOR to making the offer... which NEVER happened.

 

Elektra101

You ever seen That 70s show??? well think of Ashton Kutcher saying BURN !!! because you just did that to yourself... im glad you blocked me, but i was about to do it to you prior.....

 

Not that Elektra101 behaved in a professional manner...he/she did not...but is it correct that you made a $150 offer on a book that hasn't sold for $150 since 2012, and has a current 12 month average price of $690, and a 90 day average of $700...? And followed it up with a $200 offer...?

 

If that is true, I'm not quite sure what ground you have to stand on, here.

 

It's still BUY IT NOW OR MAKE AND OFFER. it doesn't state anywhere on ebay that the offer has to be a certain amount. while at this point considering the movie is coming out next week, it might climb up in sales with the next few days. i still don't feel i was low balling him.

 

(emphasis added)

 

Just wanted to make sure all the facts were in before rushing to judgment.

 

Here are the sales for the last 6 months:

 

Jun-05-2015 $650 Cert# 1204009033

May-25-2015 $612 Cert# 1203909002

May-24-2015 $717 Cert# 1290478005

May-17-2015 $750 Cert# 0208120010

May-04-2015 $650 Cert# 1301226015

Apr-22-2015 $699 Cert# 1202739004

Apr-17-2015 $799 Cert# 0240986001

Apr-16-2015 $725 Cert# 0208120009

Apr-15-2015 $700 Cert# 1305165020

Apr-09-2015 $700 Cert# 0252230010

Apr-05-2015 $627 Cert# 0247445011

Mar-22-2015 $657 Cert# 1290478003

Mar-22-2015 $710 Cert# 1216468008

Feb-28-2015 $625 Cert# 0232770009

Feb-18-2015 $790 Cert# 1202485012

Feb-03-2015 $820 Cert# 1202485013

Jan-15-2015 $707 Cert# 0243792009

 

...but you still don't feel a $150, then $200, offer was "low-balling"?

 

Interesting.

 

It really comes down to respect, doesn't it...?

 

Well laid out points, RMA.

 

I have blocked Elektra101 as well as Donmeca2020 .

[Oat Willy]

It is amazing to me that this item under discussion can be relisted with the same description!

 

 

I find it even more amazing that the books are already re-listed when the seller doesn't even have them back yet...

 

 

Why are you blasting me? I've been nothing but amendable to you since the start. Yes I relisted them. Had to, your dispute put me in a financial bind and I need to re-sell them quick. It's not as if they've already been re-sold. It is a 7 day auction ending next week. Timed so that I can inspect and send them out to the new buyer within the listed time period, unless you plan to damage me further by dragging your feet on the return. And for the record, I lowered the grade on the #1. There we go with the not reading the description again. If you have anything else to say. The best way to reach me is directly, please do so if you have anything else to say

[ttfitz]

Ebay username: escaflown4

 

This guy didn't read the description carefully and decided he didn't want the item after receiving it and asked for a return/refund. OK, annoying but fine and I agreed to it and asked him to return the item, promising to refund him when received. All good so far, but he then files a paypal dispute which of course throws my account into a negative balance, so now I can't do any business using Paypal. I have some other transactions I needed to complete which I now can't.

 

Note to buyers...if you're in a situation like this and the buyer is nice and cooperative, don't file a dispute. It will f up their finances temporarily and will just make them angry and less cooperative

 

Oat Willy, I guess you never thought I happen to be a board member. So for everyone else that wants a clarification, here are the facts from my side.

 

I am assuming he is referring to the following auction since that's the only item I have initiated a return request on.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVIL-ERNIE-1991-92-Eternity-Mini-Series-1-5-1st-LADY-DEATH-/121681830184?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=n2GhZLDVL556jUvAIKQ9ErCZbNc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

Normally I don't bother with returning items unless I feel the books are grossly over graded compared to what was advertised which happens to be the case here. He advertised issue #1 as VF+ but it was more of a Fine / Fine+ condition. I just like how he twisted the situation claiming I didn't read the description and am returning it just because I felt like it. Sorry my friend, I got better things to do with my spare time.

 

Now let's get to the second part. I sent him a message telling him that I would like to return the books since I feel they are over graded. After I didn't hear back from him, I initiated a return request through eBay hoping to get a response back. He did respond back later that day to my original eBay message stating that he is out of town and can take care of it on 7/13. I responded back that I am ok with this. Now I never initiated any type of PayPal dispute which he is claiming. The only thing I did was start a return request through eBay and that was it. I do not know why his PayPal account went into negative balance nor was this any of my intentions. Again, I just like how this was twisted in his version of the story in which he stated he replied first and I opened a PayPal dispute afterward which is far from the truth.

 

I would definitely like to hear more on what Oat Willy has to say now that the facts have been brought out from the other side of the table. If this was all a misunderstanding, then I would like to get this resolved amicably.

 

 

 

This has been my problem with this thread and its predecessor from the beginning. There are always two sides to every story. I'm against encouraging others to dump giant unvetted wads of eBay users into their blocked buyers list. Add in the power of Google and the popularity of this site, and this thread has the ability to really hurt someone who is innocently tarnished.

 

Want a great example of this? The predecessor to this thread was started by a guy who soon found his own eBay account on the list. And as with most of the accused, it was simply added to the list without any discussion or vetting.

 

I whole heartedly agree with this post. I've never given this thread much mind and think it just breeds negativity on the boards. I believe Sharon also made a really solid post about how it was just a negative thread.

 

Use the eBay feedback system.

 

A good idea, except it seems most of the posts here are about bad buyers, and the eBay feedback system doesn't allow for sellers to give negative feedback.

 

Not that I'm defending this thread, I'm really kinda neutral on it...

[wombat]

What would be a lowball offer on this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLASH-COMICS-1-ASHCAN-EDITION-CGC-9-6-1939-/120652990756?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item1c177a8924

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

It is amazing to me that this item under discussion can be relisted with the same description!

 

 

I find it even more amazing that the books are already re-listed when the seller doesn't even have them back yet...

 

 

Why are you blasting me? I've been nothing but amendable to you since the start. Yes I relisted them. Had to, your dispute put me in a financial bind and I need to re-sell them quick. It's not as if they've already been re-sold. It is a 7 day auction ending next week. Timed so that I can inspect and send them out to the new buyer within the listed time period, unless you plan to damage me further by dragging your feet on the return. And for the record, I lowered the grade on the #1. There we go with the not reading the description again. If you have anything else to say. The best way to reach me is directly, please do so if you have anything else to say

 

Why would you relist them without having them in hand to make sure they're in the condition you say they are? What if they are damaged in transit? What if they don't show up?

 

Sure, you can "end the listing and cancel bids", but that seems a bit like you're leading potential bidders on, who think you have the books in hand, and they are what you say they are.

[kav]

Or this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPIDER-MAN-ORIGINAL-ART-VINNY-ROMITA-SIGNED-BY-JOHN-ROMITA-SR-JR-STAN-LEE-/370691265517?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564eebd3ed