" Satisfied " with CGC by X-ray Spexx

[CSJournals-migration]

I mean, are you really satisfied?

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the clarity and reliability of the grades that they render and what its done for the industry but lets be real about the what this has done to the hobby.

 

1. What CGC has done is clearly a boon for comic book collecting in that you can buy books with confidence in their quality but we PAY THROUGH THE NOSE for this gift to the industry. A press and a slab for a modern book is $30 and 3-4 months, never mind the insanity of sending submissions fast track. In a lot of instances I've had to decide which is cheaper, buy a pre-slabbed book now or press & submit my unslabbed books for damn near the same price or more and wait 3-4 months. When the process of collecting costs as much or more than the actual collectible I'm not sure what that is but it sure as hell isn't a gift to mankind!

 

2. Now that CGC is the gold standard, its brought clarity and reliability to the market and its also raised the price for everything. Books that I bought just a few years ago that were considered worthless are now showing up on eBay for $125 because they're 9.8's. Does anyone remember going to the 2 for $1 bin at a comic shop or con and now seeing some of those same books selling for ridiculous prices. It seems like nowadays its not so much about the book itself as it is the grade, now nothing is worthless if its a 9.8. A couple of real world examples, why does every issue #1 from Image end up on eBay 9.8 ( likes thats a real feat ) for $75-100 in less than 30 days. Why are new books that are not all that rare in the grand scheme of things selling in 9.8 ( not a real feat ) for more than some books that are actually rare and actually old. I know I'm not the only one who has seen the Image #1 9.8 of the moment selling for X number dollars and thought, man I could buy a oldie but goodie in 9.8 for that kind of money. In short, CGC grades have helped to lead us to a place where we have books that are clearly worth something but how much, books that are clearly worth nothing but how little, and new books that you can't quite determine tell how much they are worth in comparison to old books.

 

3. CGC is one big mystery wrapped in a puzzle. We all know Overstreets grading criteria but why are CGC's criteria a secret? When CGC came out a lot of people saw the value of their collections drop. People who had bonafide great collections ended up having mediocre sets once CGC started dropping bombs on peoples collections. Are there any old school collectors out there who can back me up on this. CGC's grading criteria are a secret so you can't argue with them about the grades they give. CGC's grading criteria are secret because they are more stringent which makes it harder to attain a respectable grade which keeps us coming back for more. Don't get me wrong, I don't think its all bad but I'm sure CGC isn't off put by the business this generates. The boards, registry, and awards spawn competition which keeps up coming back for more.

 

4. Is anyone still bothered by the clear conflict of interest with CCS aligning with CGC? Its hard for me to believe that two affiliated companies don't share info. You mean to tell me a box arrives at CGC from CCS and the CGC staff open it like " wherever did this box come from, come let us grade these anonymously submitted books ". All CGC needs is one good scandal to bring ruin to the market.

 

I love the boards and community CGC has established. I like the service they provide but my admiration falls far short of love and devotion.

 

See more journals by X-ray Spexx

[bagofleas]

It is very much an amazing thing how CGC has transformed this hobby of ours. You are correct in how previously less valuable issues are now worth some significant money if they achieve certain grades. It has made the hobby both fun, expensive, and a dealer's dream as far as profit goes.

 

However, if you are worried about possible conflicts of interest between CCS and CGC, then let me alleviate those fears.

 

I can say for a fact that once a book has been sent through CCS for pressing, it then goes through accounting and receiving at CGC. When the receiving department transfers the now-pressed-books to the graders, the graders are NOT informed as to whether they had been pressed or not.

 

In fact, the graders do not see any previous labels for the books or anything like that. They receive the book with no info whatsoever, and grade the book as it stands "NOW", with complete impartiality to anything that may have been done to it previously. The graders do not know whether the book was pressed at all, or two or three times. Any previous labels are kept at accounting for census purposes and then shredded. The graders never see them.

 

There is not a conflict of interest in this case, or in any case as far as CGC goes. They have taken careful steps to make sure of this. I would rather have them be TOO thorough than too lax in their focus on integrity and impartiality.

[Triskelion]

It is very much an amazing thing how CGC has transformed this hobby of ours. You are correct in how previously less valuable issues are now worth some significant money if they achieve certain grades. It has made the hobby both fun, expensive, and a dealer's dream as far as profit goes.

 

However, if you are worried about possible conflicts of interest between CCS and CGC, then let me alleviate those fears.

 

I can say for a fact that once a book has been sent through CCS for pressing, it then goes through accounting and receiving at CGC. When the receiving department transfers the now-pressed-books to the graders, the graders are NOT informed as to whether they had been pressed or not.

 

In fact, the graders do not see any previous labels for the books or anything like that. They receive the book with no info whatsoever, and grade the book as it stands "NOW", with complete impartiality to anything that may have been done to it previously. The graders do not know whether the book was pressed at all, or two or three times. Any previous labels are kept at accounting for census purposes and then shredded. The graders never see them.

 

There is not a conflict of interest in this case, or in any case as far as CGC goes. They have taken careful steps to make sure of this. I would rather have them be TOO thorough than too lax in their focus on integrity and impartiality.

 

This is an interesting subject guys. Personally, I think any "arms length" relationship between two companies in separate but vertically integrated industries (in this case, CCS with pressing/restoration, and CGC with impartial grading/slabbing) which belong to one umbrella organization will always remain in doubt. Internal firewalls, processes to separate etc no matter how well thought out can theoretically be breached. I know CGC has operationalized several controls to ensure impartiality as well as integrity in its grading & even verification system, and while I still imagine nothing is perfect I do think the market has generally "accepted" this imperfection as evidenced by the success of CGC.

 

IMO the key element or question in the CCS-->CGC relationship is whether collectors "care" under a worse case hypothetical scenario of zero firewalls, in other words if say CCS folks pressing the book sit side by side with CGC employees receiving these same books and passing them on further into the CGC grading chain. My understanding is that "pressing" has already been accepted as non-restoration by CGC ...and if that's the case the CGC employees responsible for grading the book wouldn't care if the book was pressed or not, right? They'd still grade, I assume, based on what they actually see/ actual condition of the book whether pressed or otherwise. So at the end of the day, I really don't think it (meaning, having truly an arms length relationship between CCS and CGC) creates much conflict of interest to the detriment of collectors/ buyers. Or at least, not to the extent of say having a grader do comic selling on the side which I know CGC is specifically warranting against.

[Jaws1965]

Great journal posting and ensuing discussion. I'm relieved to hear BagoFleas' reassurance on the firewalls between CCS and CGC, even though I acknowledge the other post that risk of process corruption is not zero.

 

As for the Image #1 EBay pricing phenomenon, I'd say that Image speculation would be occurring to some extent regardless, due to Walking Dead, Thief of Thieves, Saga, Chew, you'd have a run-up on their #1 titles despite the CGC aspect of things.

[X-ray Spexx]

I don't mean to imply that CGC and CCS are putting the fix on things, but I don't think you can say that the possibility doesn't exist which gives me pause. I'm sure there are safeguards or what not but lets agree that on its surface its a slippery slope at best. They better damn sure be careful because all it would take is one verifiable episode of impropriety to undermine confidence in the market and thats it, everything falls apart. I mean just think, people don't trust the government when two government agencies claim that they don't work together behind the scenes or share info, why would you view a private company any different especially when you don't really have much insight into what happens behind the scenes. I'm saying I know there are safeguards but I feel that I give CGC the same skepticism ( which is healthy ) that I give everything else.

 

What I've noticed recently is that nobody really knows what anything is worth. Relatively new books can sell for more that old books with history proven value. Look at a copy of Gambit or Deadpool first appearance, both of which are not rare very abundant and ultra modern, compared to the first appearance of the black cat which is somewhat rare and old. When new stuff produced in abundance is worth as much or more than stuff that is old and rare things are upside down. It signifies that the market doesn't exactly know what things are worth. Thats a setup for a market collapse because it signifies speculation and uncertainty. Just my take.