Marvel/DC and their reboot culture

[ZaCrew]

Does anyone believe we will will ever see a marvel or DC book make it to an Issue #100 again?

 

 

[revivedrevival]

It's only a matter of time until they announce another reboot and I will be one of many in a mad rush to sell before the prices drop off the cliff.

 

Due to the above fear, I listed my Avengers & Uncanny Avengers collection.

 

[the authority]

I think the same way. They've thrown the baby out with the bath water with the do overs. I quit buying Marvel for this reason. I don't think it's an accident that indies now make up about 30% of the market. If you kill someone, revive them, kill them, revive...you get the idea.

 

To me, renumbering is the majority of what they have left. The indies on the other hand are like Game of Thrones. Things are permanent so they matter whether it be a marriage, a plot, a fight, a scratch, a betrayal, a death, or whatever. They bring more weight to the stories.

 

[darkstar]

Are Batman and Detective Comics going somewhere?

[the authority]

They just rebooted. That was his point I think.

[Lonzilla]

Aside from Deadpool books because they're just plain funny I rarely buy anything Marvel which is a shame because that's what I grew up on as a Bronze Age kid.

Used to be that even if you went years without buying a comic, Peter Parker was still worried about Aunt May discovering his identity, Daredevil always had to deal with The Kingpin figuring out his, and Wolverine would be searching for his.

The lack of continuity is what ticks me off

[Comicopolis]

Does it matter what issue number is on the front as long as it is well written?

[Carl Elvis]

I think the same way. They've thrown the baby out with the bath water with the do overs. I quit buying Marvel for this reason. I don't think it's an accident that indies now make up about 30% of the market. If you kill someone, revive them, kill them, revive...you get the idea.

 

To me, renumbering is the majority of what they have left. The indies on the other hand are like Game of Thrones. Things are permanent so they matter whether it be a marriage, a plot, a fight, a scratch, a betrayal, a death, or whatever. They bring more weight to the stories.

Exactly how I feel, I'll take GOT or Walking Dead stories anyday over another "death of" money grab. I'm beyond bored with Marvel&DC, I'll leave it to the teenagers and stick with independents.

[eightclaps]

Does it matter what issue number is on the front as long as it is well written?

 

Agreed. The new numbering just makes comic books seem more accessible to new people looking to get into the hobby, which this industry desperately needs. As long as the stories are good and the pictures are pretty, they can number it however they want.

[mrwoogieman]

It used to be the independent comics that were all new number 1s while the establishment had the high numbered series. Now the -script is flipped, and books like Spawn, Savage Dragon, Walking Dead, etc., are all high numbered series while Marvel and DC renumber with the seasons.

 

[the authority]

Does it matter what issue number is on the front as long as it is well written?

 

Agreed. The new numbering just makes comic books seem more accessible to new people looking to get into the hobby, which this industry desperately needs. As long as the stories are good and the pictures are pretty, they can number it however they want.

 

I understand what you're saying but I think it would be confusing if you were new to collecting which I would think would possibly turn some away. I'll give you an idea of what I mean.if I say Incredible Hulk #181 or Amazing Spider-man #129, I would be willing to bet most people would know exactly what I'm talking about but if I say you should check out Captain America #6, I would expect a phone call when the new person got to the LCS wondering which one.

 

Someone mentioned Detective Comics going away earlier and I know if that ever happens, comics are done but Detective Comics sales per month are down 50% since the 1st issue of the reboot and down 40% since issue #4. My guess is, they will be at or below what they were selling when they printed the last issues of the first run soon. I don't think it brought new readers in. I believe it caused old ones to buy a couple of copies of each issue because they had to have a #1. I'm strictly guessing here but those are my thoughts.

 

My thinking is that they, the big 2, should try to be a little more creative and bring some new characters to life. Stan Lee and guys like him created stuff that we still read today and that's great but how many characters in the last 20 or so years have been added to your must reads from the big 2 ? On the other hand, Image, Dark Horse, Boom, Oni, and the like are least taking a shot at creating something that this generation can call their own. I believe that's why stuff like Saga has built a following in this time.

 

To answer the question, numbers don't matter other than it lets new people know where we started and where we are to this point imo.

[Tuff Ghost]

I don't really know if there is a correct way to do this. Marvel and DC are in a bit of a bind. People have already voted with their wallets. Anyone can look up the numbers and see that #1's sell more, even if it is a slight sales bump, that's still a bump in numbers even if it only lasts for 4 or 5 issues. They're making more money, and attracting more readers.

 

You even see it with Image books. People are more willing to jump on in single issues on a series that is just starting rather than picking up single issues of a series that's been going for years. At that point people will just pick up the TPB/HC and won't really care what 'issue' number it's on.

 

In all honesty I was reading 0 marvel books before marvel now. Couldn't be bothered to figure out a jumping on point. Because I'm collector I couldn't handle the thought of jumping in on issue 48 without reading/owning the previous issues.

 

Since the re-launch I've picked up a ton of marvel books and have been enjoying them. I think if you look at the numbers it's done very well for them so I don't think this model is going away. It gives me an easy point to start collecting and an easy point to start reading. I also don't mind these series ending 30 issues in since it gives me a nice exit point as well. A big part of it is the psychological thing, I can't control it but I will pick up a #1 before a #86 anyday, at least in single issues.

 

I don't think there is a correct answer for this, if there was a way that made everyone happy I think they would have figured it out by now. High numbers make collectors happy. I really don't see how it would benefit a new reader at all?

 

I know DC relaunched with New-52 but they haven't really been renumbering books after that have they? It's mostly been Marvel that's taken some heat for relaunching series with the same creative teams?

 

[the authority]

I don't really know if there is a correct way to do this. Marvel and DC are in a bit of a bind. People have already voted with their wallets. Anyone can look up the numbers and see that #1's sell more, even if it is a slight sales bump, that's still a bump in numbers even if it only lasts for 4 or 5 issues. They're making more money, and attracting more readers.

 

You even see it with Image books. People are more willing to jump on in single issues on a series that is just starting rather than picking up single issues of a series that's been going for years. At that point people will just pick up the TPB/HC and won't really care what 'issue' number it's on.

 

In all honesty I was reading 0 marvel books before marvel now. Couldn't be bothered to figure out a jumping on point. Because I'm collector I couldn't handle the thought of jumping in on issue 48 without reading/owning the previous issues.

 

Since the re-launch I've picked up a ton of marvel books and have been enjoying them. I think if you look at the numbers it's done very well for them so I don't think this model is going away. It gives me an easy point to start collecting and an easy point to start reading. I also don't mind these series ending 30 issues in since it gives me a nice exit point as well. A big part of it is the psychological thing, I can't control it but I will pick up a #1 before a #86 anyday, at least in single issues.

 

I don't think there is a correct answer for this, if there was a way that made everyone happy I think they would have figured it out by now. High numbers make collectors happy. I really don't see how it would benefit a new reader at all?

 

I know DC relaunched with New-52 but they haven't really been renumbering books after that have they? It's mostly been Marvel that's taken some heat for relaunching series with the same creative teams?

 

You make many good points. You are one of the people I was speaking of when I said I thought they might find the same title and # might cause confusion. Obviously, it didn't have a negative impact on you. You're also right about DC to this point although I feel that if the numbers continue to drop, they will reboot again. It's just a hunch. I don't hang on to a lot of expensive old stuff. I literally collect what I like and nothing else in older books. I'm pretty sure that a good number of people will be disappointed if they reboot again and again and none of their books retains value. There are only so many trips you can make to the well before you run out of water imo.

[Crimebuster]

Does it matter what issue number is on the front as long as it is well written?

 

Agreed. The new numbering just makes comic books seem more accessible to new people looking to get into the hobby, which this industry desperately needs. As long as the stories are good and the pictures are pretty, they can number it however they want.

 

Seeming to be more accessible isn't the same as actually being more accessible.

 

Every jumping on point is also a jumping off point. So let's say they actually get some new readers when they reboot to #1. Those people stick with the book for, what, two years? Then it's rebooted again. Now those "new readers" are people who had invested in a series only to have it cancelled and replaced with something else. Something they are just as likely to skip as to try out. As a result, DC and Marvel are basically trying to find a whole new readership over and over again.

 

Rebooting may lead to a temporary sales boost for people who have to buy #1 issues, but it also trains readers not to commit to anything, and to value temporary creative teams over characters, titles and properties. I don't see how that's a good business strategy. And I also don't think it has led to the comics themselves being any better either.

 

Rebooting over and over again just seems short sighted to me.

[ComicConnoisseur]

What`s sad is that the majority of the new DC 52 comic books are now the longest running titles by Big Two.

Amazing that a series that makes it to issue number 33 is considered a long running title nowadays.

[Heavy3PO]

One thing I am enjoying about the new numbering series is how it can be a fresh start. Look at the changes made in the new 52. Also it seems that some of the writers seem to be trying to cut out their own little "permanent history" for these characters now, and that's something I can fully applaud. I enjoy it when they try to actually do something with a character that sticks, or at least becomes permanent history.

 

...at least until Mephisto/Superboy punches wall/clones/lazarus/whatever happens.

 

Could they do the same without renumbering? Of course, and a large part of me would actually prefer that. If by next year they just go ahead and call ASM 22, ASM 722 it would put the biggest smile on my face.

[500Club]

I don't really know if there is a correct way to do this. Marvel and DC are in a bit of a bind. People have already voted with their wallets. Anyone can look up the numbers and see that #1's sell more, even if it is a slight sales bump, that's still a bump in numbers even if it only lasts for 4 or 5 issues. They're making more money, and attracting more readers.

Marvel has trapped themselves into the need to goose sales with crossovers, reboots, and event stories.

 

In Sean Howe's excellent book 'Marvel: The Untold Story', he recounts this fact: During research, he spoke to someone in sales, who noted that gimmick covers would provide a sales spike, but sales would subsequently drop to below what the pre-gimmick baseline had been. For example, issue 240 would sell 200K copies, 241, a gimmick issue, would sell 220K copies, but 242 would drop to 180K.

 

By repeatedly doing this, and alienating long term collectors, they have cultivated a customer base that buys reboot #1s, death issues, crossovers, and variant covers.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I don't really know if there is a correct way to do this. Marvel and DC are in a bit of a bind. People have already voted with their wallets. Anyone can look up the numbers and see that #1's sell more, even if it is a slight sales bump, that's still a bump in numbers even if it only lasts for 4 or 5 issues. They're making more money, and attracting more readers.

Marvel has trapped themselves into the need to goose sales with crossovers, reboots, and event stories.

 

In Sean Howe's excellent book 'Marvel: The Untold Story', he recounts this fact: During research, he spoke to someone in sales, who noted that gimmick covers would provide a sales spike, but sales would subsequently drop to below what the pre-gimmick baseline had been. For example, issue 240 would sell 200K copies, 241, a gimmick issue, would sell 220K copies, but 242 would drop to 180K.

 

By repeatedly doing this, and alienating long term collectors, they have cultivated a customer base that buys reboot #1s, death issues, crossovers, and variant covers.

So what they did was focus importance on the new customer over their existing customer. Usually that turns out to be a bad business philosophy practice long-term.

With most Marvel and DC Comic barely selling 25,000 copies a month from the heyday of 100,000 a month it looks like that philosophy was right.

[the authority]

I don't really know if there is a correct way to do this. Marvel and DC are in a bit of a bind. People have already voted with their wallets. Anyone can look up the numbers and see that #1's sell more, even if it is a slight sales bump, that's still a bump in numbers even if it only lasts for 4 or 5 issues. They're making more money, and attracting more readers.

Marvel has trapped themselves into the need to goose sales with crossovers, reboots, and event stories.

 

In Sean Howe's excellent book 'Marvel: The Untold Story', he recounts this fact: During research, he spoke to someone in sales, who noted that gimmick covers would provide a sales spike, but sales would subsequently drop to below what the pre-gimmick baseline had been. For example, issue 240 would sell 200K copies, 241, a gimmick issue, would sell 220K copies, but 242 would drop to 180K.

 

By repeatedly doing this, and alienating long term collectors, they have cultivated a customer base that buys reboot #1s, death issues, crossovers, and variant covers.

 

I'll have to read that book. That was my perception too. The reason I used Captain America #6 earlier was because it reminded me of something my brother told me. He was really into Marvel when we were kids and I liked both companies. He had Captain America #100 up until they ended the that run. I asked him at the time why he quit buying when they started with a new number. He told me that other than 30 or 40 issues, he bought the series out of what he felt was an obligation to continue the run. He still calls those books from the 60's on, his Captain America and hasn't bought one since. Marvel let him out of his perceived contract.

 

So I agree with you point. They have boxed themselves in a corner. The gimmicks or reboots ran off at least 1 buyer and they need to get a buyer to replace him.

[paul747]

I think the New 52 Batman and detective will go to 100. I don't think DC will reboot them again for a while. MHO !