Hulk 271--why does anybody care about this book?

[spidrvacc]

I think it is as simple as MP7 is the first APP and H 271 is the first comic book app , 2nd overall app and first cover for Rocket. Now for myself and folks who do not collect magazines the desired book is Hulk 271 and for those who like to collect magazines the desired book is MP7. No matter what anyone says to me i desire his first comic book APP which is in Hulk 271. Period. I do own both but could care less about MP7.

[Ken Aldred]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

Not in 1976 they didn't.

 

I had all of these in my collection during my teenage years.

 

When I started collecting seriously, summer 77 onwards, I didn't make any distinction between standard size, colour American comic books and these magazines. I bought any comic story or artwork that appealed to me, the format didn't matter. Being from the UK, our b/w Marvel reprint comics tended to be oversized, usually closer to US magazine dimensions, and this might've made it somewhat easier not to discriminate.

[fett]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

Not in 1976 they didn't.

 

I picked up every copy of Savage Sword of Conan I could find in 1976. (Had to sneak them past my Dad due to the Boris covers though).

[fett]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

Not in 1976 they didn't.

 

I had all of these in my collection during my teenage years.

 

When I started collecting seriously, summer 77 onwards, I didn't make any distinction between standard size, colour American comic books and these magazines. I bought any comic story or artwork that appealed to me, the format didn't matter. Being from the UK, our b/w Marvel reprint comics tended to be oversized, usually closer to US magazine dimensions, and this might've made it somewhat easier not to discriminate.

 

Same here. The reason why is due to Conan again. I was introduced to reading Conan sometime in 1975 by a cousin that lived nearby. Loved it. Then I happened across the Hour of the Dragon/Conan the Conqueror adaptation in GS Conan. Read 1-4, waited on #5. 5 came out and it was reprints of the Elric story arc. Where did the story go? My cousin again hooked me up and waved his Savage Swords in my face. I had to buy these $1 comics to finish reading the story. So I have always considered the mags to be just bigger comics. MHO.

[Illustrious]

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616

 

Wrong. Marvel Preview #7 DOES take place in the main Marvel 616 Universe, read the fourth paragraph down under History, titled "Witch World":

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rocket_Raccoon_%28Earth-616%29

 

Interesting, confusing as all that is. It makes it sound like Hulk 271 actually takes place before the events of MP 7. At least the way I read that. So Hulk 271 is supposed to be the very first time we are to meet Rocket.

A retcon doesn't change the fact that MP 7 is the first appearence.

 

(thumbs u

[FantasticFan-migration]

 

I picked up every copy of Savage Sword of Conan I could find in 1976. (Had to sneak them past my Dad due to the Boris covers though).

 

Can anyone shed light on why MP7 is so tough in grade? I've heard things like lower print run/distribution, less collected, harder to preserve bc of the book's size, and a cover that parents didn't approve as reasons. But it's crazy to see only 15 copies on the census graded 9.4 or higher with only 3 9.8s. Why are we witnessing Silver Age-type scarcity in grade for a mid-Bronze Age book?

 

[JollyComics]

Maybe the market has decided that they value Hulk #271 more than Marvel Preview #7?

 

The market has already decided the opposite, look at GPA how much more Marvel Preview #7 goes over Hulk #271 in all grades. Sure #271 has a better Rocket Racoon cover, but a second appearance is a second appearance. I wouldn't pay over $150 for a 9.8 copy, and I'd have to think about even paying that.

 

I have a hard time believing that the people paying $700 for 9.8 Hulk 271s are ever going to make that back when they eventually sell. Worst time possible to buy. When you figure in the fact that it's the 2nd appearance of the character, it makes even less sense.

However, the market.......

 

Same problem with Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #134. 1st appearance of Darkseid cameo is in the last page. Next issue shows more pages of Darkseid then Forever People #1 has the full appearance of Darkseid then few appearances in first few New Gods. It goes same problem for Hulk #180 and #181 (Of course, 1st cover of Wolverine on #181).

[Mike's Rack]

 

I picked up every copy of Savage Sword of Conan I could find in 1976. (Had to sneak them past my Dad due to the Boris covers though).

 

Can anyone shed light on why MP7 is so tough in grade? I've heard things like lower print run/distribution, less collected, harder to preserve bc of the book's size, and a cover that parents didn't approve as reasons. But it's crazy to see only 15 copies on the census graded 9.4 or higher with only 3 9.8s. Why are we witnessing Silver Age-type scarcity in grade for a mid-Bronze Age book?

That's a really good question, the census is remarkably low considering the press this may has gotten. I figured that by now people would have mined all of the magazine boxes in back rooms of local shops and you would see a lot more in the market. Even in lower grade, this book is not as plentiful as Hulk 271. I picked up a collection of about 5,000 magazines three years ago, there were tons of Marvels and most had 4-5 copies. There were 4 copies I MP 4 but only one copy of MP 7. I think the lack of care in storage is the greatest contributor to the dearth of high grade copies. Most copies I have run across were stored unbagged and they have color rubs on the front and back.

[ft88]

I love the cover

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=976396

 

Ridiculous

[rjrjr]

Maybe the market has decided that they value Hulk #271 more than Marvel Preview #7?

 

The market has already decided the opposite, look at GPA how much more Marvel Preview #7 goes over Hulk #271 in all grades. Sure #271 has a better Rocket Racoon cover, but a second appearance is a second appearance. I wouldn't pay over $150 for a 9.8 copy, and I'd have to think about even paying that.

I dunno then. Isn't this the same question with Boba Fett?

 

yeah but there a lot of confounding factors in that parallel.

-boba is a movie property first, a comic entity second

-boba's "first" appearance was in a movie tie in magazine not a marvel continuity magazine

 

hmmm now you have me wondering if there are other examples.

 

Star Lord (MP4) didnt have a magazine appearance until well into his existence...

 

 

I think he is referring to the fact that Star Wars 42, a 4th printing of the material, sells for more than the other comic printings. The first printing of the Star Wars 42 material is in the Marvel Comics Illustrated Version of The Empire Strikes Back (paperback). Marvel Super Special 16: The Empire Strikes Back (magazine) and Marvel Special Edition 2: The Empire Strikes Back (treasury) also were printed before Star Wars 42. All 3 of these printings were on sale when the movie was released to the theater. The paperback contains images of Yoda that were drawn from concept art and were redrawn for the other printings.

 

The market has decided that the 4th printing is more valuable than the previous 3 printings. And this absolutely has to do with the fact that Star Wars 42 is in comic book form, whereas the earlier printings are not. Of the 3 other printings, I believe the paperback book is the harder one to find in high grade, followed by the magazine. The treasury is very easy to find in high grade. Star Wars 42 which can be found very easily like most of the Marvel Star Wars run.

 

The unfortunate reality is Overstreet and other publications incorrectly refer to these other printings as reprints, even thought they pre-date the comics. Interestingly, they get the information correct for Adventures on the Planet of the Apes (reprints in color), but then those comics were printed a few years after their magazine counterpart, so maybe it is understandable that they get the information wrong about the movie tie in comics.

[Ken Aldred]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

Not in 1976 they didn't.

 

I had all of these in my collection during my teenage years.

 

When I started collecting seriously, summer 77 onwards, I didn't make any distinction between standard size, colour American comic books and these magazines. I bought any comic story or artwork that appealed to me, the format didn't matter. Being from the UK, our b/w Marvel reprint comics tended to be oversized, usually closer to US magazine dimensions, and this might've made it somewhat easier not to discriminate.

 

Same here. The reason why is due to Conan again. I was introduced to reading Conan sometime in 1975 by a cousin that lived nearby. Loved it. Then I happened across the Hour of the Dragon/Conan the Conqueror adaptation in GS Conan. Read 1-4, waited on #5. 5 came out and it was reprints of the Elric story arc. Where did the story go? My cousin again hooked me up and waved his Savage Swords in my face. I had to buy these $1 comics to finish reading the story. So I have always considered the mags to be just bigger comics. MHO.

 

Very much the same progression for me. Started with 12p Marvel All-Colour Comics copies of American Conan issues, which stopped being distributed to the UK newsstand just a few months after I started collecting in 77, but luckily I found a shop which sold new, imported American cent copies and also saw the Giant-Size issues and Annuals there for the first time. Soon afterwards, they started stocking Savage Sword and immediately I went on to buying the magazines and filling in back issue gaps. That's the way it worked for any title with standard-size comics and larger b/w magazines.

 

Also, I bought Marvel Preview, Epic Illustrated and Heavy Metal for the variety. Definitely a time for experimentation.

 

[rjrjr]

Nothing wrong with comic book collectors wanting a comic in their collection instead of a magazine.

 

You mean a magazine-sized comic. Kind of like TMNT #1 being a magazine-sized comic.

 

Not really. Most of the magazines were produced without the Comics Code Authority and dealt with themes that may not have made it into the comics. They were not available at many of the outlets where comics were sold, and had their own system of distribution. For a lot of years, magazines were the red-headed stepchild, and in a lot of instances they were rejected as being "collectible" by the mainstream comic hobby. For many old school collectors, magazines are not comics.

 

That's because most magazines are not comics. But comic magazines are comics.

 

I'm an old school collector and I never knew such a controversy existed until I joined these boards. I've always considered comic magazines as comics. When I go to comic shows or comic book stores, I always see comic magazines being sold along with the standard format comics, so I didn't know any better.

[seanfingh]

Nothing wrong with comic book collectors wanting a comic in their collection instead of a magazine.

 

You mean a magazine-sized comic. Kind of like TMNT #1 being a magazine-sized comic.

 

Not really. Most of the magazines were produced without the Comics Code Authority and dealt with themes that may not have made it into the comics. They were not available at many of the outlets where comics were sold, and had their own system of distribution. For a lot of years, magazines were the red-headed stepchild, and in a lot of instances they were rejected as being "collectible" by the mainstream comic hobby. For many old school collectors, magazines are not comics.

 

That's because most magazines are not comics. But comic magazines are comics.

 

I'm an old school collector and I never knew such a controversy existed until I joined these boards. I've always considered comic magazines as comics. When I go to comic shows or comic book stores, I always see comic magazines being sold along with the standard format comics, so I didn't know any better.

 

I certainly don't disagree with your perspective, but it is different from mine. Most of the comic guys that I ran around with (who grew up in the spinner rack era - born 1966-1974 or so) were neither exposed to, not cared about mags. I did know a couple of guys that read SSOC, but hated comics. My dad would buy me comics, and he would buy National Lampoon and the Marvel mags for himself. The only copy of MP 4 I have ever bought, I bought as a gift for him about 10 years ago. (He is super PO'd about the Peter Quill retcon.)

 

I do not think that my perspective is any more valid or correct than yours, but it is different. And I think it sheds some light on the fact that in some circles there was, historically, resistance to and lack of knowledge about Marvel mags.

[joeypost]

I care about the book whether it is the first, second of fortieth appearance. It is a Hulk book

[Broke as a Joke]

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616

 

Wrong. Marvel Preview #7 DOES take place in the main Marvel 616 Universe, read the fourth paragraph down under History, titled "Witch World":

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rocket_Raccoon_%28Earth-616%29

 

Interesting, confusing as all that is. It makes it sound like Hulk 271 actually takes place before the events of MP 7. At least the way I read that. So Hulk 271 is supposed to be the very first time we are to meet Rocket.

A retcon doesn't change the fact that MP 7 is the first appearence.

 

 

But it does give added incentive to the value and popularity of 271. Which is what the title of this whole thread is about.

[Mishmashman]

 

I picked up every copy of Savage Sword of Conan I could find in 1976. (Had to sneak them past my Dad due to the Boris covers though).

 

Can anyone shed light on why MP7 is so tough in grade? I've heard things like lower print run/distribution, less collected, harder to preserve bc of the book's size, and a cover that parents didn't approve as reasons. But it's crazy to see only 15 copies on the census graded 9.4 or higher with only 3 9.8s. Why are we witnessing Silver Age-type scarcity in grade for a mid-Bronze Age book?

That's a really good question, the census is remarkably low considering the press this may has gotten. I figured that by now people would have mined all of the magazine boxes in back rooms of local shops and you would see a lot more in the market. Even in lower grade, this book is not as plentiful as Hulk 271. I picked up a collection of about 5,000 magazines three years ago, there were tons of Marvels and most had 4-5 copies. There were 4 copies I MP 4 but only one copy of MP 7. I think the lack of care in storage is the greatest contributor to the dearth of high grade copies. Most copies I have run across were stored unbagged and they have color rubs on the front and back.

 

My guess is for kids who did collect mags, the MP7 cover bearing a scantily-clad Satana didn't meet with parental approval, resulting in many parents trashing MP7s. Preservation of mags in general also must've proved challenging. As some boardies in this thread have noted, it's not easy storing a magazine. I have also heard from one old school dealer that because MP7 did not have a superhero-type cover, it was ignored by collectors.

 

It's interesting, though, that there are currently almost 4x as many MP4s in 9.0+ as there are MP7s. But even MP4 is tougher in higher grade than its comic book counterparts.

[the blob]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

 

How many comic shops were there in 1976....?

 

That's the answer to your question.

 

Right, so what was on comic shop racks in 1976 isn't really relevant because there were only about 15 of them in the country more or less. (I was talking about late 70s/early 80s in terms of my childhood LCS, not 1976, although, actually, i think my local shop was around in 1976 (west side comics in manhattan anyone? it was around in 1977 for sure) these marvel (and other) magazines were in the vicinity of comics on the newsstand in 1976.

[Jeffro.]

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616

 

Wrong. Marvel Preview #7 DOES take place in the main Marvel 616 Universe, read the fourth paragraph down under History, titled "Witch World":

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rocket_Raccoon_%28Earth-616%29

 

Interesting, confusing as all that is. It makes it sound like Hulk 271 actually takes place before the events of MP 7. At least the way I read that. So Hulk 271 is supposed to be the very first time we are to meet Rocket.

A retcon doesn't change the fact that MP 7 is the first appearence.

 

 

But it does give added incentive to the value and popularity of 271. Which is what the title of this whole thread is about.

 

Given that popularity leads to demand and demand leads to higher values, you are correct. I think it's silly that there is a "1st appearance" in a comic magazine and then a "1st appearance" in a comic book. Comic mags and comic books are so closely related to one another that it shouldn't matter. Obviously it does or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Jeffro.]

 

Right, so what was on comic shop racks in 1976 isn't really relevant because there were only about 15 of them in the country more or less. (I was talking about late 70s/early 80s in terms of my childhood LCS, not 1976, although, actually, i think my local shop was around in 1976 (west side comics in manhattan anyone? it was around in 1977 for sure) these marvel (and other) magazines were in the vicinity of comics on the newsstand in 1976.

 

If you went to a supermarket or drug store in the 70s, the magazines would have been (most likely) in close proximity to the comic spinner racks.

[the blob]

http://ifanboy.com/articles/my-first-shop-west-side-comics/

 

 

here's a thingy that discusses some of my childhood through 20s comic haunts. all gone now.

 

i can't believe $50 for a SS 50. disgusting. oddly, that was a place that had decent 4/$1 and 3/$1 books when I was a kid/pre-teen (10 years earlier than what this guy is talking about as I am pretty sure west side comics was gone by 1993/94) and did some sort of price war where all new (60 cent cover price) comics were 3/$1 (maybe it was just marvels, i forget).