My First "fake" CGC slabbed book

[Tony S]

There have been previous discussions on the boards here concerning how hard it would be to scam, fake, swap out books that have been third party graded and encapsulated . I suck at finding old discussions on the boards here, sorry. But I've posted up in those discussion that I can more often than not open a slab without any real evidence of damage. A little over 50% of the time with CGC, most of the time with PGX. I and others have wondered how many doctored or faked slabbed books there might be as a result of scammers swapping books/labels.

 

Well, I bought my first such book (inadvertently of course) at a local show here in Evansville this past Saturday (Shocktobercon - a Halloween themed event). A Captain America 100, CGC 9.2 (old label). I thought it might be helpful to some if I shared the experience and what I found. Most of us - myself included - spend time closely looking over the book in the slab of a potential purchase. Not so much the slab itself.

 

Before we get started, let me say I don't need advice on how to proceed or comments of sympathy or support. The seller was a local collector/part time dealer I have known for decades. A good guy and a friend. Even if he hadn't been, I paid with Paypal, funded by my credit card. As long as I caught the problem in a reasonable length of time, things were going to work out OK for me. Which they did. I discovered the scam Sunday afternoon and by Sunday evening we agreed I would keep the book after a substantial refund. Dave purchased the book off eBay years ago so he's the real victim here.

 

So here is a picture of the book in question:

 

Looks innocent enough. I should have looked a lot closer.

 

I purchased the book as a CPR. I thought it had upgrade potential to 9.4 or better. Since I was buying it at below GPA for a 9.2, it was (I thought anyway) a can't loose situation. When I cracked it open, I first removed the microchamber paper and here is what I saw:

 

 

Amateur color touch all along the top part of outer edge of the FC. My first thought was "how could CGC have missed something so obvious?" My second was "they probably didn't".

 

So then I took a close look at the label and the slab. I haven't included any pictures of the slab because honestly there is nothing to show. I popped the top two posts of the slab without any noticeable damage to the slab. The scammer had done the same to the bottom two. I can make out a tiny bit of fracturing now that I know it was cracked, but it wasn't noticeable and is no worse than a lot of slabs pick up from routine handling. The label however was a copy. Something not immediately noticeable but very suspect if you are looking carefully. Clearly a copy if you have an authentic old label book to look at:

 

 

Not only are the colors lighter, but the text is not near as sharp. But the most telling indicator of a copy is the light blue block of background color on the right is not solid. Instead it has very distinct moire pattern. You can see the dots of color.

 

It's obvious what the scammer did here. A CGC graded RESTORED Captain America 100 was removed from the outer holder, A CGC graded 9.2 Universal old label Captain America 100 had the same thing done. The scammer removed and discarded the restored label. Then made a color copy of the Universal label. Put the copied label into the top part of the CGC inner holder that holds the label. Reinserted the restored book with the copied Universal label into an undamaged holder. Then sold it on eBay.

 

This particular scammer was a bit more greedy than most. He/she could have just swapped the labels and then resubmitted the unrestored book to be graded again. But hey, why waste money on grading fees? Just copy the Universal label.

 

So anyway, a lesson learned here. Take a bit of time to look closely at the label, closely at the slab. As well as closely at the book.

 

Sadly, this type of scam could easily fool most people. I was duped. I only found it because I cracked it. If I hadn't thought it would upgrade I might have put it in my collection or put it up for sale. I didn't detect it, the next person buying probably wouldn't either.

 

I politely suggest CGC needs to do more as far as making attempts at opening the slabs obvious. They should also completely seal the top label inside the inner older - something other grading companies do. CGC's label is open at the top and only one or two tiny spots of welding or sealing holds the grading label in place. If you can get the inner holder out without damaging the outer holder the label swap is easy.

 

BTW, I still believe the book has upgrade potential. So it's been resubbed. I don't have all that much $$ in it now. If it gets NM or better, might yet work out as nice purchase in spite of the color touch.

[Unca Ben]

That really stinks.

Thank you for the heads-up.

[cousin itt]

We've been talking about this for as long as I have been here (not very long, I know), but it has always been hypothetical. Now we know it's not just hypothetical, and this was done a long time ago, right? (Your friend bought it off ebay a long time ago, right?) So who knows how many of these things are floating around out there.

 

 

[Broke as a Joke]

Why wouldn't the scammer put the original label inside? Why take a chance at somebody noticing the fake label? That doesn't make sense to me but yeah I'm sure there are many falsely represented books out there, with many people that never crack a book out at all to inspect it.

[cousin itt]

Here's another thread where we were talking about this:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8005445&fpart=8

 

 

[kav]

There's got to be a lot more where that came from. Undetected scammers are very very prolific. That's what caused the sports memorabilia meltdown....overnight it was found 90% of autographed memorabilia was fake. Hopefully something like this doesn't happen to the slab world.

[KDUK]

Just out of interest what does the barcode say the book is?

 

Has the scammer gone to the exert of finding a 9.2 Cap 100 and duplicated the number?

[Unca Ben]

Just out of interest what does the barcode say the book is?

 

Has the scammer gone to the exert of finding a 9.2 Cap 100 and duplicated the number?

 

From the original post:

It's obvious what the scammer did here. A CGC graded RESTORED Captain America 100 was removed from the outer holder, A CGC graded 9.2 Universal old label Captain America 100 had the same thing done. The scammer removed and discarded the restored label. Then made a color copy of the Universal label. Put the copied label into the top part of the CGC inner holder that holds the label. Reinserted the restored book with the copied Universal label into an undamaged holder. Then sold it on eBay.

[chromium]

Back in 2003 Danny Dupcak ( using his Hammer persona ) made a play-by-play thread on how to exactly do this, I think it lasted less than an hour before it was pulled.

 

The slabs have gotten a lot better and more secure since then.

I've cracked a few hundred slabs and the ones with the old label popped open a lot easier without leaving a mark.

[Mr. Hog]

So, when I got that stapled copy of IH 181 from 'the house of comics' I made a label and used an old cracked slab someone sent to me - I was doing it as a joke for my personal collection. Never finished the goofy project for obvious reasons - but when our last au pair went back to Germany I made her a goofy book as a gift to remember me: Captain Aupairica. My point is this, it was a little time consuming making the first label. I'm a perfectionist. The second label popped out in minutes. This is something that anybody with an ounce of design ability can manage.

 

I personally do not check every label I buy on every slab. Too much trust. This has me thinking a lot differently.

 

I'm sorry this happened. If it makes you feel any better, I won an xmen 12 from heritage about 12 months ago. Never really flipped through it when I got it because it was an impulse buy and I was mad at myself for bidding on it. Just recently I was cleaning out my box and decided to open it. There is pretty obvious armature touch on the side too. I bought it as an unrestored... Now it's too late to return. I'm an insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

[KDUK]

Just out of interest what does the barcode say the book is?

 

Has the scammer gone to the exert of finding a 9.2 Cap 100 and duplicated the number?

 

From the original post:

It's obvious what the scammer did here. A CGC graded RESTORED Captain America 100 was removed from the outer holder, A CGC graded 9.2 Universal old label Captain America 100 had the same thing done. The scammer removed and discarded the restored label. Then made a color copy of the Universal label. Put the copied label into the top part of the CGC inner holder that holds the label. Reinserted the restored book with the copied Universal label into an undamaged holder. Then sold it on eBay.

 

that'll learn me to skim read, thanks!

[zosocane]

Would like to know if anyone has seen this happen with a "new" label book.

[Tony S]

Back in 2003 Danny Dupcak ( using his Hammer persona ) made a play-by-play thread on how to exactly do this, I think it lasted less than an hour before it was pulled.

 

The slabs have gotten a lot better and more secure since then.

I've cracked a few hundred slabs and the new with the old label popped open a lot easier without leaving a mark.

 

I too believe it to be true that older slabs are less likely to show damage when cracked open than newer ones. But it's only "less likely". Certainly a lot of newer slabs can have the corners popped open with little to no damage evident.

 

I have mentioned before in previous discussions and should have said so here: I make no special effort at not damaging the slab. No tools are used, I've never tried any tricks that ought to help. By hand I just start in the middle of the slab and pry it open a bit, work my way up or down to a corner post and then once it doesn't want to flex open any further down give it a sharp, quick tug. A lot of times, close to half the time I get a clean pop at the post.

 

In the interest of fairness, it should be said that there is a balance here. Collectors should be able to unslab a book without damaging it. Some collectors don't want the slab, just the assurance of no resto, the grade & the book. Sometimes books look like they should be resubmitted. Sometimes slabs themselves get unsightly cracks or scratches.

 

But it's clear that it is possible to make an outer holder that more readily shows attempts at breaking open. And the top label needs to be completely enclosed in that inner holder.

 

 

 

 

[cousin itt]

They make tamper evident tape. It seems to me like that might work.

 

Putting the label inside the inner well would be nice, but it wouldn't really make a scammer's job that much more difficult. Once you have access to the inner well, the cat is out of the bag at that point. CGC really just needs to make the outer case genuinely tamper evident.

[kav]

I think the tamper tape is the best solution-and the first company to offer this will be at an advantage especially if more instances of fraud are discovered and bleeding Cool does an article about it.

[MetalPSI]

I agree with the "Void if removed" sticker take on this. I seriously thought when I first started collecting slabs that you couldn't open them up without destroying the slab in the process.

 

As for basing the value of the comic inside on the presentation of the slab it's in. That's just stupid. Thats like saying, "Hey that comic bag has scratches on it, I should get a discount" It's just a holder.

 

I have a broken holder for a comic that is very valuable to me. I am not going to throw the whole comic away because the holder is cracked. The book is still in great condition.

[rabidwolf]

Kinda scary to say the least

[kav]

Slabs can be cracked and resealed undetectably

Labels can be created

There is a lot of scamming in the comics biz-more and more as time goes on

 

I'd say this is a perfect storm waiting to happen.

CGC should get ahead of it with more secure slabs and collectors should very carefully examine slabs they buy, labels, posts, etc.

Most probably though this situation will be ignored till it's too late and things implode-that's human nature.

Maybe if it's a high dollar book crack it just to make sure. Be sad if someone cracked a Superman #1 they had for 10 years only to discover inside the cover was a 70's Archie book or extensive CT with a sharpie.

 

The label doesnt have to be fake though-someone could harvest/resubmit legitimate books and use the labels to sell off the fakes....

 

The situation as it now exists is that a raw book that can be examined is more secure than a slabbed book bought off another party.

 

[Unca Ben]

Just out of interest what does the barcode say the book is?

 

Has the scammer gone to the exert of finding a 9.2 Cap 100 and duplicated the number?

 

From the original post:

It's obvious what the scammer did here. A CGC graded RESTORED Captain America 100 was removed from the outer holder, A CGC graded 9.2 Universal old label Captain America 100 had the same thing done. The scammer removed and discarded the restored label. Then made a color copy of the Universal label. Put the copied label into the top part of the CGC inner holder that holds the label. Reinserted the restored book with the copied Universal label into an undamaged holder. Then sold it on eBay.

 

that'll learn me to skim read, thanks!

 

No problem. It happens to me all the time!

[Spidey-fan73]

They make tamper evident tape. It seems to me like that might work.

 

Putting the label inside the inner well would be nice, but it wouldn't really make a scammer's job that much more difficult. Once you have access to the inner well, the cat is out of the bag at that point. CGC really just needs to make the outer case genuinely tamper evident.

 

One of the other guy does this.