The Death of Adulthood in America - Madmen Season Finale

[Prince Namor]

You guys are discussing an inherently political topic, and are making claims that certain posts are or are not "political", which makes no sense, again, given the inherently political nature of the topic being discussed.

 

What's political about the history of white males?

 

Any discussion pertaining to the history of a specific group is inherently political because no group in "contemporary society" existed in a vacuum. How a specific group was treated or perceived, what place they had in society, what they could or couldn't do, what power they did or didn't have, and even how history portrays them, is inextricably linked to that group's interactions with other groups. Hence, it's political. Even the term "white male", while it shouldn't be, is politically loaded, because it's most often referenced in political discussions, and is too ambiguous to be used with any sort of accuracy in other contexts.

 

I like comics books.

[COI]

You guys are discussing an inherently political topic, and are making claims that certain posts are or are not "political", which makes no sense, again, given the inherently political nature of the topic being discussed.

 

What's political about the history of white males?

 

Any discussion pertaining to the history of a specific group is inherently political because no group in "contemporary society" existed in a vacuum. How a specific group was treated or perceived, what place they had in society, what they could or couldn't do, what power they did or didn't have, and even how history portrays them, is inextricably linked to that group's interactions with other groups. Hence, it's political. Even the term "white male", while it shouldn't be, is politically loaded, because it's most often referenced in political discussions, and is too ambiguous to be used with any sort of accuracy in other contexts.

 

I like comics books.

 

Mods notified.

[Prince Namor]

You guys are discussing an inherently political topic, and are making claims that certain posts are or are not "political", which makes no sense, again, given the inherently political nature of the topic being discussed.

 

What's political about the history of white males?

 

Any discussion pertaining to the history of a specific group is inherently political because no group in "contemporary society" existed in a vacuum. How a specific group was treated or perceived, what place they had in society, what they could or couldn't do, what power they did or didn't have, and even how history portrays them, is inextricably linked to that group's interactions with other groups. Hence, it's political. Even the term "white male", while it shouldn't be, is politically loaded, because it's most often referenced in political discussions, and is too ambiguous to be used with any sort of accuracy in other contexts.

 

I like comics books.

 

Mods notified.

 

[Prince Namor]

I was going to make a joke that it was a new record for me, but sheesh... I probably HAVE gotten notified to mods twice in one day before....

[Davenport]

See, it just seems like a diversionary tactic when someone can't back up their point. But yeah, I see if someone think's it's political, it can frustrate them in their response. I guess it's an easy blanket for someone to use when they can't back up their point.

 

So try this: You take one of your 'facts' and prove that's its irrefutable without getting political. Prove it beyond any doubt whatsoever. No politics. Avalanche away.

 

Irrefutable? Are you being facetious?

 

Let's just go with backing up one of my facts with sources, how about that. (Irrefutable.. sheesh...)

 

Let's try this one: "And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product."

 

It's been proven in a court of law, based upon the Justice Department's own investigation, and the cigarette companies have actually agreed in principle on the form of punishment in admitting they lied, though they're still fighting the actual implementation of it. They went back to court in February of this year.

 

But they've given in to denying it. The evidence was overwhelming. Now, they're just fighting the punishment.

 

See. That was easy.

 

Because that's the trick, that's the tactic. You put it on them to do the proving. And if they touch the political-rail trying, they're fried. Booted. Outta here.

 

I just did it. No politics.

It was easy because you didn't do squat. You tossed up a straw man. No one here was arguing cigarette companies. So there was nothing to prove there.

 

What's your point? Say it straight out. Whatever it is you're ultimately trying to say, just say it. Single sentence, crystal clear, so we can all understand. Bottom line. And we'll see if your cigarette company fact proves that point of view.

 

Otherwise you're just chumming waters, hoping someone will take the bait and go too far in their response. Get themselves booted while you trumpet 'I never said that! When did I say that?'.

 

So say it already. Your point. Then prove it. Or just stop it. How about that? Sound like a plan?

[Comicopolis]

This thread is weird.

[Prince Namor]

See, it just seems like a diversionary tactic when someone can't back up their point. But yeah, I see if someone think's it's political, it can frustrate them in their response. I guess it's an easy blanket for someone to use when they can't back up their point.

 

So try this: You take one of your 'facts' and prove that's its irrefutable without getting political. Prove it beyond any doubt whatsoever. No politics. Avalanche away.

 

Irrefutable? Are you being facetious?

 

Let's just go with backing up one of my facts with sources, how about that. (Irrefutable.. sheesh...)

 

Let's try this one: "And incidentally, despite the cigarette companies having their own research (which was revealed much later, proving the lying scumbags they were) and knowing full well they were selling a health hazard, they LIED to the general public, for sole purpose of selling more of their product."

 

It's been proven in a court of law, based upon the Justice Department's own investigation, and the cigarette companies have actually agreed in principle on the form of punishment in admitting they lied, though they're still fighting the actual implementation of it. They went back to court in February of this year.

 

But they've given in to denying it. The evidence was overwhelming. Now, they're just fighting the punishment.

 

See. That was easy.

 

Because that's the trick, that's the tactic. You put it on them to do the proving. And if they touch the political-rail trying, they're fried. Booted. Outta here.

 

I just did it. No politics.

It was easy because you didn't do squat. You tossed up a straw man. No one here was arguing cigarette companies. So there was nothing to prove there.

 

What's your point? Say it straight out. Whatever it is you're ultimately trying to say, just say it. Single sentence, crystal clear, so we can all understand. Bottom line. And we'll see if your cigarette company fact proves that point of view.

 

Otherwise you're just chumming waters, hoping someone will take the bait and go too far in their response. Get themselves booted while you trumpet 'I never said that! When did I say that?'.

 

So say it already. Your point. Then prove it. Or just stop it. How about that? Sound like a plan?

 

Ok, let's go back to my original statement:

 

The quality didn't erode, that's what they trying to show you. It was always a goofy soap opera, they just kicked down the walls, so you could see it better. The ILLUSION of the wealthy white guys so in control of everything played nicely with the marketing, advertising angle - it was an ILLUSION, their excesses and behavior came with consequences - and the more walls that got torn down (literally and figuratively) we saw how it effected everyone they knew and came in contact with.

 

The SHOW, which is a STORY, took the ILLUSION or IMAGE portrayed through 'advertising' of the wealthy white male, who could drink all day, smoke all day, and sleep with whores left and right and showed that those behaviors actually had consequences. The ADVERTISING and MARKETING of that image (Marlboro Man, Beer commercials) was an ILLUSION. The more the walls got torn down (we saw behind the curtain) the more we saw how it effected everyone they loved and came into contact with.

 

The ILLUSION, that IMAGE, is FALSE.

99% of men CAN'T smoke all day, drink all day and sleep with women left and right without it having some type of negative effect on them or the people around them.

 

It wasn't about 'oh look how BAD the wealthy white males are - Don Draper is IDOLIZED because of that show. Roger, who I think was a great character, is essentially a nothing - born into wealth, inherited everything and had everything good for him fall into his lap. People LOVE his character, they don't see him as a 'victim'.

 

It wasn't an indictment of white males. It was a celebration in how they adapted to the change of the sixties.

 

The proof is in how the characters ended up - it was't Don who got sick, it was BETTY! Don comes out a winner. Pete walked away a winner. Roger does a great thing and ends up in love with someone his own age. They all win. How is that an condemning of the life they lived?

 

Anyway, that's when the other guy came in with his - why does everyone hate white males BS.

 

This wasn't EVER about Politics to me.

 

I explained my point, if that's not good enough then YOU pick one of my points and I'll explain it and prove it without 'politics'.

[Davenport]

It wasn't an indictment of white males. It was a celebration in how they adapted to the change of the sixties.

Fine and good. But if that was your point it got lost in the avalanche.

 

So, you know, maybe take a step back and consider how being a little less confrontational, a little less professorial, might be a better communication style for you.

 

A lot of people here, myself included, misunderstood or missed your point, so that's something to mull over at least. If it doesn't work for you, maybe try something else? Or not, only a suggestion.

 

[budsbundy]

I come back to 35 new posts, and not one about the show

[bb8]

I come back to 35 new posts, and not one about the show

 

Really, the show, although pretty decent, is no way comic-related. So probably a thread that shouldn't exist here anyways, this being a comic message board. So there is that.

[Mr 9.8]

I come back to 35 new posts, and not one about the show

 

Really, the show, although pretty decent, is no way comic-related. So probably a thread that shouldn't exist here anyways, this being a comic message board. So there is that.

[budsbundy]

I come back to 35 new posts, and not one about the show

 

Really, the show, although pretty decent, is no way comic-related. So probably a thread that shouldn't exist here anyways, this being a comic message board. So there is that.

Then ask that it be moved to the water cooler.

 

And a thread about "white privilege" does have a place on a comic board?

[Prince Namor]

It wasn't an indictment of white males. It was a celebration in how they adapted to the change of the sixties.

Fine and good. But if that was your point it got lost in the avalanche.

 

So, you know, maybe take a step back and consider how being a little less confrontational, a little less professorial, might be a better communication style for you.

 

A lot of people here, myself included, misunderstood or missed your point, so that's something to mull over at least. If it doesn't work for you, maybe try something else? Or not, only a suggestion.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I understand, how people misconstrue my posting style.

 

I find it bizarre, as they are only words on a page, and how someone ELSE interprets them or FEELS about them, I have somewhat minimal control over, unless I increase my level of pontification to explain everything I type and I don't think anyone here wants that.

 

I went back and read my response to that PC POLICE post, and, ok, I can see how my post might be seen as a little more confrontational than usual, as the politics of the poster reared it's ugly head, and I find that offensive. From EITHER side of the political spectrum.

 

But no one pointed to that post and said, "Hey leave the politics out of it!" (Except me), but somehow I got notified for Political Posting!

 

I learned a long time ago, never to hold anyone to whatever standard I think something should be, but in the course of a discussion in this forum, I will go back and RE-READ what was being said (and by whom) in order to make sure I'm understanding what's being tossed around.

 

If someone doesn't do that for me, is that MY fault that they got it wrong?

 

Should I provide a cliff notes version or a summary of my posts for the less literate or the on-the-go forum member?

 

See, now the above sentence is a perfect example... I chuckled as I wrote it, because I thought that was funny. But some might read it as mean spirited or conceited or possibly even angry. Is that on ME or is that on THEM?

 

So... I do understand where you're coming from, and I'm never too rigid to be able to adapt.... you've made me consciously aware...at the same time, I'm not teaching 3rd graders, I'm posting my opinions on a public forum, and it's necessary to be aware of falling debris. I'd like to teach the world to sing... in perfect harmony.... there's just too much gosh darn propaganda in the way.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

This thread is weird.

 

If by weird you mean "pathetic" and "cringe-worthy" due to a match, agreed.

[fantastic_four]

I understand what you're saying, and I understand, how people misconstrue my posting style.

 

 

[bb8]

I come back to 35 new posts, and not one about the show

 

Really, the show, although pretty decent, is no way comic-related. So probably a thread that shouldn't exist here anyways, this being a comic message board. So there is that.

Then ask that it be moved to the water cooler.

 

And a thread about "white privilege" does have a place on a comic board?

I was addressing the original thread topic. Obviously, the silly discussion on 'race in America' belongs elsewhere as well.

[Prince Namor]

I understand what you're saying, and I understand, how people misconstrue my posting style.

 

 

 

Read my posts in a Woody Allen voice and see how much less 'confrontational' they seem and yet how it still works.

 

Pre-Mia Farrow breakup Woody Allen of course.

[Peter G]

The ending of Madmen was kinda forced to my thinking. The coke commercial as the equivalent of transcendental meditation as crystallized through a 1970s Coke commercial featuring the beginning of diversity in America is just a bit too much to swallow.

 

Unless the Coke commercial is just another product, no different then Lucky Strike cigarettes. Just selling fake dreams to the masses.

 

Regardless, it truly was the end of adulthood in America. The show got that part down right.

[ComicConnoisseur]

The ending of Madmen was kinda forced to my thinking. The coke commercial as the equivalent of transcendental meditation as crystallized through a 1970s Coke commercial featuring the beginning of diversity in America is just a bit too much to swallow.

 

Unless the Coke commercial is just another product, no different then Lucky Strike cigarettes. Just selling fake dreams to the masses.

Regardless, it truly was the end of adulthood in America. The show got that part down right.

Plus Coke as it turns out is not healthy as well.

 

[Peter G]

The ending of Madmen was kinda forced to my thinking. The coke commercial as the equivalent of transcendental meditation as crystallized through a 1970s Coke commercial featuring the beginning of diversity in America is just a bit too much to swallow.

 

Unless the Coke commercial is just another product, no different then Lucky Strike cigarettes. Just selling fake dreams to the masses.

Regardless, it truly was the end of adulthood in America. The show got that part down right.

Plus Coke as it turns out is not healthy as well.

 

Yuh, carbonated fizzy water is dangerous too