These slabs from Heritage look funky...

[comicwiz]

I must have missed this - can you elaborate on the tests you did on the inner wells?

 

I've conducted some thermal testing on the Barex inner-wells in the lab today. My results agree with the above post.

 

75 deg C (167 deg F) Barex is soft and pliable, but not rippling.

 

77 deg C (170.6 deg F) Barex is rippling, but not laminating.

 

80 deg C (176 deg F) Barex is laminating to the book.

 

Recap from page 5

 

Thanks for running those tests.

 

I think it's entirely plausible for a car to heat up to the third test case. I would guess it would take somewhere around 2-4 hrs depending on whether the car is parked with no shade. If a car could achieve 80 deg C, then imagine a truck with undelivered cargo parked mid-afternoon to evening (sun goes down here after 8PM). I have several slabs where the Barex laminated the comic, but it breaks my heart even thinking about what happened to these books. Such a terrible way for a book to go, especially since all the damaged slabs were in the same case with my comics in Mylar, and the Mylar ones had no issue.

[vaultkeeper]

I must have missed this - can you elaborate on the tests you did on the inner wells?

 

I've conducted some thermal testing on the Barex inner-wells in the lab today. My results agree with the above post.

 

75 deg C (167 deg F) Barex is soft and pliable, but not rippling.

 

77 deg C (170.6 deg F) Barex is rippling, but not laminating.

 

80 deg C (176 deg F) Barex is laminating to the book.

 

Recap from page 5

 

Thanks for running those tests.

 

I think it's entirely plausible for a car to heat up to the third test case. I would guess it would take somewhere around 2-4 hrs depending on whether the car is parked with no shade. If a car could achieve 80 deg C, then imagine a truck with undelivered cargo parked mid-afternoon to evening (sun goes down here after 8PM). I have several slabs where the Barex laminated the comic, but it breaks my heart even thinking about what happened to these books. Such a terrible way for a book to go, especially since all the damaged slabs were in the same case with my comics in Mylar, and the Mylar ones had no issue.

 

I have run tests on mylar and took it up to 100 deg C and it did not ripple. I ran out of time, but I'll continue testing and let you know at what temp. Mylar fails.

[Jamie Coville]

Or the shipment took a detour through India.

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Here are the auction photos. I guess it was the Texas heat...

 

Were they pressed? Because that's what's really important to know about a comic.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist, but for years I've been bringing up the topic of what happens to a comic during shipping and this is a clear example of some of the conditions a book experiences when being shipped.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I have run tests on mylar and took it up to 100 deg C and it did not ripple. I ran out of time, but I'll continue testing and let you know at what temp. Mylar fails.

 

Dupont claims 254 degrees C melt temp, butif the Barex is laminating to the book well under it's melt point ....

[kav]

Are there books out there people don't realize are welded to the inner well and are essentially ruined?

[lizards2]

Are there books out there people don't realize are welded to the inner well and are essentially ruined?

Yes - buy the label, not the book. It is certified.

[kav]

This is shocking that the thing supposed to protect a comic is completely destroying it and loose comic would be better

[jaeldubyoo]

So do we have to ship slabs by refrigerated trucks now?

[RustyStaple]

So do we have to ship slabs by refrigerated trucks now?

 

Yes, and the cost will use up even more of your cold hard cash

[jpepx78]

 

The heat deflection temperature for Mylar (polyethylene terephthalate) is 115 deg C (239 deg F) for 455 kPa (66 psi) and 80 deg C (176 deg F) for 1820 kPa (264 psi).

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2047#_General_Properties

 

Vaultkeeper, since you work at INEOS, can you tell us if the Barex plant is physically shut down or still in operation to fulfill final orders? Thanks for your info.

 

 

[JazzMan]

I looked up the certs for the four comics that have been displayed here to see if there was a pattern of recent grading where the material might have changed, similarly to how the puddling issue was (which I still am not completely satisfied with how it was attempted to be explained away). After looking at the four comics affected here, there doesn't seem to be a recent pattern:

 

Certification #: 237429001

Title: Avengers

Issue: 11

Grade Date: 10/23/2014

 

Certification #: 1291108016

Title: Batman

Issue: 324

Grade Date: 2/27/2015

 

Certification #: 701318006

Title: Captain America

Issue: 199

Grade Date: 8/26/2014

 

Certification #: 151606008

Title: Hero For Hire

Issue: 1

Grade Date: 5/2/2008

 

 

The last one is the only one that breaks the six month proximity since it goes back to 2008. And since the incident occurred in 2010 it's unlikely that there is a pattern here.

[comicwiz]

I've had slabs with older grading dates damaged by outdoor heat exposure. If memory serves, that may have included an old label (small text/grade) version.

 

Regarding some of the comments of disbelief, I'm totally with you. I'm of the opinion that the slabs should have been stress tested long before they began cranking them out to determine if they are safe to use. The whole grading process is reliant on shipping, and to see this kind of thing happening to a book that is supposed to be protected is disappointing to say the least.

 

In the late 70's, Kenner was stress testing their toys, exposing them to extreme cold, then heat, to see how the PVC plastic would hold up. We know this from the engineering pilots which are marked "aged." This was a facet of stress testing which realized these toys had to be mailed through redemption programs, ordered from catalogues, or the kind of wear that happens from kids just being kids.

 

More than thirty years later, a company handling some of the rarest and most valuable comics, and encapsulating them with materials that experience depressed melting point during shipping, sounds like we've taken 20 steps back in the way products ought to be assured as safe through testing before they are mass marketed and collectors have their comics damaged unnecessarily.

[vaultkeeper]

 

Vaultkeeper, since you work at INEOS, can you tell us if the Barex plant is physically shut down or still in operation to fulfill final orders? Thanks for your info.

 

 

From what I understand it was scheduled to stop production in the first quarter of this year. I do not know if that has changed. I'll look into it.

[kav]

So every slab today depending on what environmental factors it may encounter is a ticking time bomb....

An Action #1 may already be laminated and owner doesn't know.

I wouldn't buy an Action #1 without deslabbing it.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

So every slab today depending on what environmental factors it may encounter is a ticking time bomb....

 

That implies that sooner or later it is inevitable. Clearly 170+ degree F temperatures are not in the cards for the vast, vast majority of slabs. We know of a couple dozen occurrences now after 15 years and 2 million graded?

[kav]

Any slabs that get shipped are at risk though right? And all slabs have been shipped.

If a book gets laminated it will be obvious right-from the visible warping? This isn't something that can sneak up on you?

[vaultkeeper]

So every slab today depending on what environmental factors it may encounter is a ticking time bomb....

An Action #1 may already be laminated and owner doesn't know.

I wouldn't buy an Action #1 without deslabbing it.

 

NO!! As cheetah has said, these temperatures are extreme. If the Barex reaches these temperatures it should be very evident with rippling.

 

In the immortal words of Douglas Adams: "DON'T PANIC!"

[joeypost]

I live in one of the hottest states in the union and I have yet to see this happen. It had to be a combination of circumstances. maybe in direct sunlight, in a truck or van with little to no air movement for extended periods of time. I have left some of my own slabs in the trunk of my car for days (accidentally) and never saw anything close to this. And after having broken out thousands of already slabbed books I have not seen any that laminated themselves to the book. Some were clinging tightly, but never stuck.

[kav]

Thx