US vs UK editions

[gaz973]

Could you share your data set? Because when I've looked at this in the past my results were a lot closer to those reported by Gary.

 

EDIT: And I should mention I have no dog in this fight. I neither buy nor sell pence copies.

 

I have no dog in the fight either and for the same reasons. As someone who specifically sells these, Gary does however. His obvious bias on the subject would not make him "unethical". It would make him human. He is the one who made the initial claim of what he believes the "averages" to be. I then double checked his claims and found them to be on the optimistic side. Why did I do that ? Because I don't automatically take dealers at their word on values, whether I have bought from them in the past or not. I perform my own due diligence, as anyone should.

 

If Gary would like to share his data set I will be more than happy to respond with data that counters his. However I believe that even Gary would find that to be a futile endeavour since he has also acknowledged that data supporting averages far less than his original claims also exists. It just depends on "which" data you're looking at at the moment.

 

-J.

We could both cherry pick data to support our beliefs, the issues that were highest out of the ones I found were obviously outliers and I wouldn't claim that they were typical cases, the same should be said for the lowest sales. What we were discussing were the averages which I found to be higher than you believed and also supported what I already knew from my reasonably extensive experiences.

 

If it would be worthwhile then I would go through and copy the data to here to support my opinion but I doubt that you would believe that I was being unbiased and it wouldn't be hard for you to find lower sales to counter it just as it wouldn't be hard for me to find higher sales.

 

I am content to just agree to disagree unless you wish to spend more time on this.

[gaz973]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

You make it sound like I sell pence copies exclusively, I still sell way more cents copies than pence. Like I said before, I'm not biased about the values. I sell pence copies at two thirds of the value that I sell cents copies but I also pay two thirds of what I would pay for cents copies when I'm buying in pence copies so it makes little difference to me. If I honestly believed that genuine market value was half of cents then that percentage would be what I'd pay when buying them in,

 

Hi Gary, nice to meet you I'm Jay.

 

Pleas don't take my responses to your posts as a challenge to your ethics as a dealer, see post above.

 

I'm assuming you're in the UK? You may very well get those prices in the UK for Pence books. I, however am familiar with dealers here in the States who have realized much less than that on those books here. That would possibly explain the gaps that we see on GPA.

 

It may just boil down to location, location, location. But based on what I see and have seen on GPA and in auctions, I personally would never pay over that 50-55% threshold because the sales are so sporadic and volatile since the market for them is so much smaller.

 

-J.

Hi Jay, you posted this on a more friendly and personal level while I was busy typing my last response and my internet is damned slow. I appreciate your saying that you're not challenging my ethics as a dealer as it is something which I take particular pride in.

 

Yes I am in the UK and I agree there is likely to be a difference in the saleability of pence copies between the US and UK though I do believe that they are becoming more popular slowly over there. I still believe that your opinions are on the low side but I can at least understand your position.

[Jaydogrules]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

You make it sound like I sell pence copies exclusively, I still sell way more cents copies than pence. Like I said before, I'm not biased about the values. I sell pence copies at two thirds of the value that I sell cents copies but I also pay two thirds of what I would pay for cents copies when I'm buying in pence copies so it makes little difference to me. If I honestly believed that genuine market value was half of cents then that percentage would be what I'd pay when buying them in,

 

Hi Gary, nice to meet you I'm Jay.

 

Pleas don't take my responses to your posts as a challenge to your ethics as a dealer, see post above.

 

I'm assuming you're in the UK? You may very well get those prices in the UK for Pence books. I, however am familiar with dealers here in the States who have realized much less than that on those books here. That would possibly explain the gaps that we see on GPA.

 

It may just boil down to location, location, location. But based on what I see and have seen on GPA and in auctions, I personally would never pay over that 50-55% threshold because the sales are so sporadic and volatile since the market for them is so much smaller.

 

-J.

Hi Jay, you posted this on a more friendly and personal level while I was busy typing my last response and my internet is damned slow. I appreciate your saying that you're not challenging my ethics as a dealer as it is something which I take particular pride in.

 

Yes I am in the UK and I agree there is likely to be a difference in the saleability of pence copies between the US and UK though I do believe that they are becoming more popular slowly over there. I still believe that your opinions are on the low side but I can at least understand your position.

 

(thumbs u

 

-J.

[gadzukes]

I've only ever sold 3 pence copies so my sample size is ridiculously small, but I was able to get about 65%-75% of Cent copies in those 3 sales. They were all key issues so I think that is why I was able to get a higher %. I would think non-key issues would go for less % of cent copies.

 

That's my

 

I still own 1 nice Pence comic (AF15 7.0). I've had more than one collector contact me about buying it. I'm keeping it right now, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get upwards of 70-75% (maybe higher) when I finally decide to sell it. Of course, AF15 is a special comic, hence the higher percentage.

[gaz973]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

You make it sound like I sell pence copies exclusively, I still sell way more cents copies than pence. Like I said before, I'm not biased about the values. I sell pence copies at two thirds of the value that I sell cents copies but I also pay two thirds of what I would pay for cents copies when I'm buying in pence copies so it makes little difference to me. If I honestly believed that genuine market value was half of cents then that percentage would be what I'd pay when buying them in,

 

Hi Gary, nice to meet you I'm Jay.

 

Pleas don't take my responses to your posts as a challenge to your ethics as a dealer, see post above.

 

I'm assuming you're in the UK? You may very well get those prices in the UK for Pence books. I, however am familiar with dealers here in the States who have realized much less than that on those books here. That would possibly explain the gaps that we see on GPA.

 

It may just boil down to location, location, location. But based on what I see and have seen on GPA and in auctions, I personally would never pay over that 50-55% threshold because the sales are so sporadic and volatile since the market for them is so much smaller.

 

-J.

Hi Jay, you posted this on a more friendly and personal level while I was busy typing my last response and my internet is damned slow. I appreciate your saying that you're not challenging my ethics as a dealer as it is something which I take particular pride in.

 

Yes I am in the UK and I agree there is likely to be a difference in the saleability of pence copies between the US and UK though I do believe that they are becoming more popular slowly over there. I still believe that your opinions are on the low side but I can at least understand your position.

 

(thumbs u

 

-J.

Sorry for the sporadic posting also, apart from my internet connection being particularly slow today, I also keep on getting interruptions at work that stop me from conversing very well.

 

I'd like to add that I agree with you that pence copies can be a volatile market, particularly I think with high grade slabbed and probably particularly outside of the UK. I can honestly say that two thirds is the average in my experience though there is difference of opinion even between UK collectors and dealers with some saying lower and some saying higher. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions.

 

Regards.

Garry

[thunsicker]

Sorry about forgetting the second r, Garry.

 

My point was when I ran the numbers a previous time I got much the same results. But I was looking at keys and I was interested in if a different data set provided different results. And if there was a difference what that told us. I think you are right though, that it isn't worth the time to debate this further.

[Jaydogrules]

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

You make it sound like I sell pence copies exclusively, I still sell way more cents copies than pence. Like I said before, I'm not biased about the values. I sell pence copies at two thirds of the value that I sell cents copies but I also pay two thirds of what I would pay for cents copies when I'm buying in pence copies so it makes little difference to me. If I honestly believed that genuine market value was half of cents then that percentage would be what I'd pay when buying them in,

 

Hi Gary, nice to meet you I'm Jay.

 

Pleas don't take my responses to your posts as a challenge to your ethics as a dealer, see post above.

 

I'm assuming you're in the UK? You may very well get those prices in the UK for Pence books. I, however am familiar with dealers here in the States who have realized much less than that on those books here. That would possibly explain the gaps that we see on GPA.

 

It may just boil down to location, location, location. But based on what I see and have seen on GPA and in auctions, I personally would never pay over that 50-55% threshold because the sales are so sporadic and volatile since the market for them is so much smaller.

 

-J.

Hi Jay, you posted this on a more friendly and personal level while I was busy typing my last response and my internet is damned slow. I appreciate your saying that you're not challenging my ethics as a dealer as it is something which I take particular pride in.

 

Yes I am in the UK and I agree there is likely to be a difference in the saleability of pence copies between the US and UK though I do believe that they are becoming more popular slowly over there. I still believe that your opinions are on the low side but I can at least understand your position.

 

(thumbs u

 

-J.

Sorry for the sporadic posting also, apart from my internet connection being particularly slow today, I also keep on getting interruptions at work that stop me from conversing very well.

 

I'd like to add that I agree with you that pence copies can be a volatile market, particularly I think with high grade slabbed and probably particularly outside of the UK. I can honestly say that two thirds is the average in my experience though there is difference of opinion even between UK collectors and dealers with some saying lower and some saying higher. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions.

 

Regards.

Garry

 

It's always nice to see and hear other perspectives about these funny books from so far away. The fact that their reach is so far and wide only speaks to the overall health and promising future of the hobby in general.

 

-Jay

[gaz973]

Sorry about forgetting the second r, Garry.

 

My point was when I ran the numbers a previous time I got much the same results. But I was looking at keys and I was interested in if a different data set provided different results. And if there was a difference what that told us. I think you are right though, that it isn't worth the time to debate this further.

People have forgotten my second r for the whole of my life.

 

I would hazard a guess that keys might perform better worldwide but other run of the mill issues, would perhaps be stronger in the UK only and suffer from lower prices outside of the UK. That is however, just a guess.

 

I think we've talked through the values and the designations pretty well now.

[Define999]

Could you share your data set? Because when I've looked at this in the past my results were a lot closer to those reported by Gary.

 

EDIT: And I should mention I have no dog in this fight. I neither buy nor sell pence copies.

 

I have no dog in the fight either and for the same reasons. As someone who specifically sells these, Gary does however. His obvious bias on the subject would not make him "unethical". It would make him human. He is the one who made the initial claim of what he believes the "averages" to be. I then double checked his claims and found them to be on the optimistic side. Why did I do that ? Because I don't automatically take dealers at their word on values, whether I have bought from them in the past or not. I perform my own due diligence, as anyone should.

 

If Gary would like to share his data set I will be more than happy to respond with data that counters his. However I believe that even Gary would find that to be a futile endeavour since he has also acknowledged that data supporting averages far less than his original claims also exists. It just depends on "which" data you're looking at at the moment.

 

-J.

We could both cherry pick data to support our beliefs, the issues that were highest out of the ones I found were obviously outliers and I wouldn't claim that they were typical cases, the same should be said for the lowest sales. What we were discussing were the averages which I found to be higher than you believed and also supported what I already knew from my reasonably extensive experiences.

 

If it would be worthwhile then I would go through and copy the data to here to support my opinion but I doubt that you would believe that I was being unbiased and it wouldn't be hard for you to find lower sales to counter it just as it wouldn't be hard for me to find higher sales.

 

I am content to just agree to disagree unless you wish to spend more time on this.

 

 

OK listen guys…. I think in many ways we do these books a disservice even comparing them to the American books as far as price goes. I have started moving away from this more and more recently…. I don't follow the pence market as much, but if it is in any way similar to the Silver age Mexican key market I can tell you its seen explosive growth on certain books.

 

 

This book could be had 5 years ago for between 2 and 300 bucks. Now we routinely see it going for much more than that! Way more depending on condition and or visibility.

 

Speaking of the UK… the Alan Class books seem to be getting more attention as well. This sale was pretty impressive for a "reprint". UK market or not who cares, thats real money...

 

 

Like I said the real story here is the huge percentages in growth the foreign edition market has made in 5 years. Love em, hate em, don't care, doesn't matter. Its happening, and with more awareness we are seeing foreign books gain more prestige. Outliers, anomalies, whatever.. unlike the movie hype books which might be a true speculative bubble, the foreign books are for many in the market, completely unknown to them or their pocketbooks. This means something I think. Are they risky to invest in? Sure, but you cant deny they are gaining in popularity and value.

 

As far as the classification.. I stopped playing semantics on this board a long time ago. If a book is printed for a non-American market my opinion is it should be a "foreign edition" on the American market. With the foreign being replaced by the country name. Uk edition, Brazilian edition etc…. Within that you can further classify them as a true price variant, pence, reprint, bootleg, trans-creation, whatever… The "foreign edition" classification is a catch all because many of these books can be confusing to classify. Evolution will continue to happen on this I think but, whatever happens the reprint classification does not work...

 

examples…

 

What about a Mexican non-canon Spidey? Its not a reprint, it contains unique story and art created by Mexican artists, it is a Mexican edition comic book.

 

What about an Indonesian bootleg which an indonesian artist literally re-created the art in their own style panel by panel? It's sort of a reprint as it was copied, it is an Indonesian edition.

 

What about a Vertice Spanish book which the publisher translated the interiors but had a local artist do a re-imagining of the cover, its a Spanish edition.

 

What about the Brazilian publisher Abril which took the American stories and art and chopped them up and created their own continuity while also replacing or removing characters from story lines… a sort of mashup, its a Brazilian edition.

 

Or even cultural translations that change story in significant ways? A translator in Greece once told me a story where he translated a Spidey villains name exactly into Greek. He knew though that a direct translation meant this villain's name would essentially be a certain electric sex toy. Him and the editor had a good laugh while they signed off and it went to press…..

 

I could go on and on with examples…. and of course some foreigns are not all that different from the American original. But again, the reprint designation still isn't accurate for multiple reasons. The foreign edition designation is a sort of catch all with further specific classification if needed.

 

I am not here to argue, only offer my opinion. As editor and co-founder of the only online source reporting on this niche of the hobby as its solitary focus. We will call them "foreign editions" or simply "foreigns" at our forum, in our magazine, or wherever I go.

[EwanUK]

Could you share your data set? Because when I've looked at this in the past my results were a lot closer to those reported by Gary.

 

EDIT: And I should mention I have no dog in this fight. I neither buy nor sell pence copies.

 

I have no dog in the fight either and for the same reasons. As someone who specifically sells these, Gary does however. His obvious bias on the subject would not make him "unethical". It would make him human. He is the one who made the initial claim of what he believes the "averages" to be. I then double checked his claims and found them to be on the optimistic side. Why did I do that ? Because I don't automatically take dealers at their word on values, whether I have bought from them in the past or not. I perform my own due diligence, as anyone should.

 

If Gary would like to share his data set I will be more than happy to respond with data that counters his. However I believe that even Gary would find that to be a futile endeavour since he has also acknowledged that data supporting averages far less than his original claims also exists. It just depends on "which" data you're looking at at the moment.

 

-J.

We could both cherry pick data to support our beliefs, the issues that were highest out of the ones I found were obviously outliers and I wouldn't claim that they were typical cases, the same should be said for the lowest sales. What we were discussing were the averages which I found to be higher than you believed and also supported what I already knew from my reasonably extensive experiences.

 

If it would be worthwhile then I would go through and copy the data to here to support my opinion but I doubt that you would believe that I was being unbiased and it wouldn't be hard for you to find lower sales to counter it just as it wouldn't be hard for me to find higher sales.

 

I am content to just agree to disagree unless you wish to spend more time on this.

 

 

OK listen guys…. I think in many ways we do these books a disservice even comparing them to the American books as far as price goes. I have started moving away from this more and more recently…. I don't follow the pence market as much, but if it is in any way similar to the Silver age Mexican key market I can tell you its seen explosive growth on certain books.

 

 

This book could be had 5 years ago for between 2 and 300 bucks. Now we routinely see it going for much more than that! Way more depending on condition and or visibility.

 

Speaking of the UK… the Alan Class books seem to be getting more attention as well. This sale was pretty impressive for a "reprint". UK market or not who cares, thats real money...

 

 

Like I said the real story here is the huge percentages in growth the foreign edition market has made in 5 years. Love em, hate em, don't care, doesn't matter. Its happening, and with more awareness we are seeing foreign books gain more prestige. Outliers, anomalies, whatever.. unlike the movie hype books which might be a true speculative bubble, the foreign books are for many in the market, completely unknown to them or their pocketbooks. This means something I think. Are they risky to invest in? Sure, but you cant deny they are gaining in popularity and value.

 

As far as the classification.. I stopped playing semantics on this board a long time ago. If a book is printed for a non-American market my opinion is it should be a "foreign edition" on the American market. With the foreign being replaced by the country name. Uk edition, Brazilian edition etc…. Within that you can further classify them as a true price variant, pence, reprint, bootleg, trans-creation, whatever… The "foreign edition" classification is a catch all because many of these books can be confusing to classify. Evolution will continue to happen on this I think but, whatever happens the reprint classification does not work...

 

examples…

 

What about a Mexican non-canon Spidey? Its not a reprint, it contains unique story and art created by Mexican artists, it is a Mexican edition comic book.

 

What about an Indonesian bootleg which an indonesian artist literally re-created the art in their own style panel by panel? It's sort of a reprint as it was copied, it is an Indonesian edition.

 

What about a Vertice Spanish book which the publisher translated the interiors but had a local artist do a re-imagining of the cover, its a Spanish edition.

 

What about the Brazilian publisher Abril which took the American stories and art and chopped them up and created their own continuity while also replacing or removing characters from story lines… a sort of mashup, its a Brazilian edition.

 

Or even cultural translations that change story in significant ways? A translator in Greece once told me a story where he translated a Spidey villains name exactly into Greek. He knew though that a direct translation meant this villain's name would essentially be a certain electric sex toy. Him and the editor had a good laugh while they signed off and it went to press…..

 

I could go on and on with examples…. and of course some foreigns are not all that different from the American original. But again, the reprint designation still isn't accurate for multiple reasons. The foreign edition designation is a sort of catch all with further specific classification if needed.

 

I am not here to argue, only offer my opinion. As editor and co-founder of the only online source reporting on this niche of the hobby as its solitary focus. We will call them "foreign editions" or simply "foreigns" at our forum, in our magazine, or wherever I go.

 

Just to add with the Alan Class books - this is a big area of interest for myself and the TOS 39 shown above was my sale (fame at last) but in fairness, it didn't actually sell for that much as the higher bidder didn't complete the sale... however, the under-bidder would've paid over £500...

 

I've sold around a dozen Alan Class Marvel Keys (TOS 39, AF 15, FF 1-8) - they tend to sell for between £100-£350 easily - and I have very high grade copies myself.

 

Alan Class comics most definitely ARE reprints - but they are the 1st reprints - and also much, much rarer than their American originals.

 

The "foreign" market is fascinating in all respects, and so much to still discover...

 

p.s. loved this thread and glad we're all friends still

[Comicopolis]

Hadn't realized that those Alan Class Marvel Keys had grown so much in value.

[Define999]

Could you share your data set? Because when I've looked at this in the past my results were a lot closer to those reported by Gary.

 

EDIT: And I should mention I have no dog in this fight. I neither buy nor sell pence copies.

 

I have no dog in the fight either and for the same reasons. As someone who specifically sells these, Gary does however. His obvious bias on the subject would not make him "unethical". It would make him human. He is the one who made the initial claim of what he believes the "averages" to be. I then double checked his claims and found them to be on the optimistic side. Why did I do that ? Because I don't automatically take dealers at their word on values, whether I have bought from them in the past or not. I perform my own due diligence, as anyone should.

 

If Gary would like to share his data set I will be more than happy to respond with data that counters his. However I believe that even Gary would find that to be a futile endeavour since he has also acknowledged that data supporting averages far less than his original claims also exists. It just depends on "which" data you're looking at at the moment.

 

-J.

We could both cherry pick data to support our beliefs, the issues that were highest out of the ones I found were obviously outliers and I wouldn't claim that they were typical cases, the same should be said for the lowest sales. What we were discussing were the averages which I found to be higher than you believed and also supported what I already knew from my reasonably extensive experiences.

 

If it would be worthwhile then I would go through and copy the data to here to support my opinion but I doubt that you would believe that I was being unbiased and it wouldn't be hard for you to find lower sales to counter it just as it wouldn't be hard for me to find higher sales.

 

I am content to just agree to disagree unless you wish to spend more time on this.

 

 

OK listen guys…. I think in many ways we do these books a disservice even comparing them to the American books as far as price goes. I have started moving away from this more and more recently…. I don't follow the pence market as much, but if it is in any way similar to the Silver age Mexican key market I can tell you its seen explosive growth on certain books.

 

 

This book could be had 5 years ago for between 2 and 300 bucks. Now we routinely see it going for much more than that! Way more depending on condition and or visibility.

 

Speaking of the UK… the Alan Class books seem to be getting more attention as well. This sale was pretty impressive for a "reprint". UK market or not who cares, thats real money...

 

 

Like I said the real story here is the huge percentages in growth the foreign edition market has made in 5 years. Love em, hate em, don't care, doesn't matter. Its happening, and with more awareness we are seeing foreign books gain more prestige. Outliers, anomalies, whatever.. unlike the movie hype books which might be a true speculative bubble, the foreign books are for many in the market, completely unknown to them or their pocketbooks. This means something I think. Are they risky to invest in? Sure, but you cant deny they are gaining in popularity and value.

 

As far as the classification.. I stopped playing semantics on this board a long time ago. If a book is printed for a non-American market my opinion is it should be a "foreign edition" on the American market. With the foreign being replaced by the country name. Uk edition, Brazilian edition etc…. Within that you can further classify them as a true price variant, pence, reprint, bootleg, trans-creation, whatever… The "foreign edition" classification is a catch all because many of these books can be confusing to classify. Evolution will continue to happen on this I think but, whatever happens the reprint classification does not work...

 

examples…

 

What about a Mexican non-canon Spidey? Its not a reprint, it contains unique story and art created by Mexican artists, it is a Mexican edition comic book.

 

What about an Indonesian bootleg which an indonesian artist literally re-created the art in their own style panel by panel? It's sort of a reprint as it was copied, it is an Indonesian edition.

 

What about a Vertice Spanish book which the publisher translated the interiors but had a local artist do a re-imagining of the cover, its a Spanish edition.

 

What about the Brazilian publisher Abril which took the American stories and art and chopped them up and created their own continuity while also replacing or removing characters from story lines… a sort of mashup, its a Brazilian edition.

 

Or even cultural translations that change story in significant ways? A translator in Greece once told me a story where he translated a Spidey villains name exactly into Greek. He knew though that a direct translation meant this villain's name would essentially be a certain electric sex toy. Him and the editor had a good laugh while they signed off and it went to press…..

 

I could go on and on with examples…. and of course some foreigns are not all that different from the American original. But again, the reprint designation still isn't accurate for multiple reasons. The foreign edition designation is a sort of catch all with further specific classification if needed.

 

I am not here to argue, only offer my opinion. As editor and co-founder of the only online source reporting on this niche of the hobby as its solitary focus. We will call them "foreign editions" or simply "foreigns" at our forum, in our magazine, or wherever I go.

 

Just to add with the Alan Class books - this is a big area of interest for myself and the TOS 39 shown above was my sale (fame at last) but in fairness, it didn't actually sell for that much as the higher bidder didn't complete the sale... however, the under-bidder would've paid over £500...

 

I've sold around a dozen Alan Class Marvel Keys (TOS 39, AF 15, FF 1-8) - they tend to sell for between £100-£350 easily - and I have very high grade copies myself.

 

Alan Class comics most definitely ARE reprints - but they are the 1st reprints - and also much, much rarer than their American originals.

 

The "foreign" market is fascinating in all respects, and so much to still discover...

 

p.s. loved this thread and glad we're all friends still

 

It is stupid to argue negatively, or be inflammatory, we all love the hobby! And we can all have different opinions and still be friends...

[EwanUK]

And speaking of ultra-rare "foreign reprints" - here's another one of my pride and joys...

 

Triumph no.772 from Aug 1939 (British)

 

Superman's 1st appearance outside America

original cover by John McCail

 

 

 

[Define999]

Hadn't realized that those Alan Class Marvel Keys had grown so much in value.

 

Thats the point my friend, a lot of people are not paying attention... those of us who do follow this market regularly are seeing big increases on foreign books all across the board. Particularly keys.... (thumbs u

[Comicopolis]

Hadn't realized that those Alan Class Marvel Keys had grown so much in value.

 

Thats the point my friend, a lot of people are not paying attention... those of us who do follow this market regularly are seeing big increases on foreign books all across the board. Particularly keys.... (thumbs u

 

Well, I'm really not paying attention because I don't care.

[Define999]

Hadn't realized that those Alan Class Marvel Keys had grown so much in value.

 

Thats the point my friend, a lot of people are not paying attention... those of us who do follow this market regularly are seeing big increases on foreign books all across the board. Particularly keys.... (thumbs u

 

Well, I'm really not paying attention because I don't care.

 

Sweet, to each his own...

[Pedro1974.5]

to everyone

 

been reading and enjoying (and Learning) quite a lot from all the posts and would like to thank each one of you (even the ones i don't agree with) for your inputs!

 

keys Wise in the marvel department (outsdie the mega keys that is), what's the average % of the cents editions you've observed on your collectors experience?

 

When you have one particular comic in mind for your collection, a special one, does the pence "tag" really bothers/ influences you that much?

 

regards

[lizards2]

If any U.S. dealers/collectors (or elsewhere) are truly selling U.K. edition high grade 60's Marvels at 50-55% of U.S. versions please pm me links to your website / books.

[Jaydogrules]

Hadn't realized that those Alan Class Marvel Keys had grown so much in value.

 

Thats the point my friend, a lot of people are not paying attention... those of us who do follow this market regularly are seeing big increases on foreign books all across the board. Particularly keys.... (thumbs u

 

Well, I'm really not paying attention because I don't care.

 

Sweet, to each his own...

 

I think comicopolis was being a bit tongue in cheek with his comment.

 

-J.

[porcupine48]

Cheeky lad!