There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay

[gadzukes]

The cover on the Hulk #1 looks fake, like a high res photocopy.

 

+1 It simply doesn't look real. Maybe there was a flake of the original cover that as left under the staple when the original cover was detached. From that flake they recreated the rest of the cover.

 

I would hesitate to bid on any of these, and I'm a guy who has bought a few restored comics.

[Mr. Lady Luck]

Just curious - what do you think would happen if you cracked open Tec #33 and sent it to CGC? Would they refuse to grade and slab it?

[Sqeggs]

Just curious - what do you think would happen if you cracked open Tec #33 and sent it to CGC? Would they refuse to grade and slab it?

 

My guess is that CGC would grade it, give it a purple label, and (probably) a lower grade. It is an interesting point though to think about where either grading company would draw the line and say a book lacked enough original material to be graded.

 

For instance, I don't think you could take an actual Tec 33 cover, restore it, and attach it to a reprint interior and have it graded. At least, I don't think you could.

[Jaydogrules]

The cover on the Hulk #1 looks fake, like a high res photocopy.

 

+1 It simply doesn't look real. Maybe there was a flake of the original cover that as left under the staple when the original cover was detached. From that flake they recreated the rest of the cover.

 

I would hesitate to bid on any of these, and I'm a guy who has bought a few restored comics.

 

So basically these books are clones.

 

-J.

[Vorpal]

For instance, I don't think you could take an actual Tec 33 cover, restore it, and attach it to a reprint interior and have it graded. At least, I don't think you could.

 

Wouldn't it get a NG (No Grade), purple label (restored)? I'd think that the label notes would designate the extent of the cover restoration and that the interior pages are reprints.

 

Or do you have to have original interior pages to get even an NG designation?

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=1013

 

 

[woowoo]

 

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

[Jaydogrules]

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

 

You were able to buy a house by selling some comic books. That's pretty awesome, congratulations.

 

-J.

[woowoo]

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

 

You we're able to buy a house by selling some comic books. That's pretty awesome, congratulations.

 

-J.

 

No sold early Actions Cap 1 Few others but the Wife just got a job as a Em nurse and went out and bought a house without me. After 3 years still trying to make it work but i still have my old place. Not to happy my name is not on new house but still have a higher grade Tec 27 than you

[Sqeggs]

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

 

You were able to buy a house by selling some comic books. That's pretty awesome, congratulations.

 

-J.

 

I'm thinking of selling my house to buy some comics.

[MrBedrock]

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

 

You were able to buy a house by selling some comic books. That's pretty awesome, congratulations.

 

-J.

 

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[woowoo]

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

 

You were able to buy a house by selling some comic books. That's pretty awesome, congratulations.

 

-J.

 

I'm thinking of selling my house to buy some comics.

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Wow Wow Wow glad i have not started drinking yet that would have really Spoon me up.

[bluechip]

How can it be a pedigree and extensively restored?

 

I was wondering that as well. Between this and the restored "9.8" showcase 4 Voldy has coming up in the next CC auction, whatever remaining regard I had for that other company and their grading/labeling practices has pretty much left the building.

 

-J.

 

It isn't reasonable to pretend that you ever had any opinion of the other company except to attack it relentlessly from the beginning for its audacity to exist in the first place. And you've done so while relentlessly hawking the value of CGC'd moderns and variants.

 

That said, I agree that it's silly for anyone to value one extensively restored book much more than the same book with a slightly lower number. But, I have, as people say, "left money on the table" but not acting on that silly impulse (quite recently a high grade book I had restored as minimally was possible got an extensive anyway and then was bought and quickly "re-restored" by someone who got a higher number (and nearly twice the money)

 

But as silly as I find that I can't think of any way to stop it which would not cause more problems. So it is what it is.

 

Finally, I have seen plenty of extensively restored books with 9.4 CGC labels. Plenty. Plenty. As in many, many. A lot. Including the one I referenced above. and others I had sold personally which later reappeared in "better" CGC labels. So it's disingenuous to imply that this happens only with the "other" companies.

 

As for Biljo White, the guy was a force in creating fan interest, fanzines etc. I think it makes sense to value or expect others to value books from his collection if you also place increased value upon the many, many pedigrees which are out there and whose prior owners were just kids who happened to store many books together. If a 9.4 that was found along with other high grade is to be worth more than some exactly the same copy which was stored away by itself, why can't a book owned by one of comic fandom's founders be considered more than a book which is identical in every other way except that?

 

I have owned some of Biljo's books and I can say that it did seem that he stored them in ways that led to brittling of paper. But the ones that had covers (he didn't seem to mind having coverless books if the hero wasn't featured on the cover) had fairly well presenting covers. So I would not be surprised to learn this Tec 33 had nice eye appeal in the first place and just needed (a lot) of structural support. (though I don't know this precise book well enough to say that definitively)

 

[Jaydogrules]

How can it be a pedigree and extensively restored?

 

I was wondering that as well. Between this and the restored "9.8" showcase 4 Voldy has coming up in the next CC auction, whatever remaining regard I had for that other company and their grading/labeling practices has pretty much left the building.

 

-J.

 

It isn't reasonable to pretend that you ever had any opinion of the other company except to attack it relentlessly from the beginning for its audacity to exist in the first place. And you've done so while relentlessly hawking the value of CGC'd moderns and variants.

 

Pretty much just your opinion and an extreme mischaracterisation of what are my (and many, many others') real and valid concerns with that company.

 

And yes, I collect high dollar moderns as well.

 

-J.

[seanfingh]

How can it be a pedigree and extensively restored?

 

I was wondering that as well. Between this and the restored "9.8" showcase 4 Voldy has coming up in the next CC auction, whatever remaining regard I had for that other company and their grading/labeling practices has pretty much left the building.

 

-J.

 

It isn't reasonable to pretend that you ever had any opinion of the other company except to attack it relentlessly from the beginning for its audacity to exist in the first place. And you've done so while relentlessly hawking the value of CGC'd moderns and variants.

 

That said, I agree that it's silly for anyone to value one extensively restored book much more than the same book with a slightly lower number. But, I have, as people say, "left money on the table" but not acting on that silly impulse (quite recently a high grade book I had restored as minimally was possible got an extensive anyway and then was bought and quickly "re-restored" by someone who got a higher number (and nearly twice the money)

 

But as silly as I find that I can't think of any way to stop it which would not cause more problems. So it is what it is.

 

Finally, I have seen plenty of extensively restored books with 9.4 CGC labels. Plenty. Plenty. As in many, many. A lot. Including the one I referenced above. and others I had sold personally which later reappeared in "better" CGC labels. So it's disingenuous to imply that this happens only with the "other" companies.

 

As for Biljo White, the guy was a force in creating fan interest, fanzines etc. I think it makes sense to value or expect others to value books from his collection if you also place increased value upon the many, many pedigrees which are out there and whose prior owners were just kids who happened to store many books together. If a 9.4 that was found along with other high grade is to be worth more than some exactly the same copy which was stored away by itself, why can't a book owned by one of comic fandom's founders be considered more than a book which is identical in every other way except that?

 

I have owned some of Biljo's books and I can say that it did seem that he stored them in ways that led to brittling of paper. But the ones that had covers (he didn't seem to mind having coverless books if the hero wasn't featured on the cover) had fairly well presenting covers. So I would not be surprised to learn this Tec 33 had nice eye appeal in the first place and just needed (a lot) of structural support. (though I don't know this precise book well enough to say that definitively)

 

Well presenting and brittle is perfect for a complete leafcasting job. Trim it down to size and voila - instant 9.8 Biljo White special.

[MrBedrock]

 

Finally, I have seen plenty of extensively restored books with 9.4 CGC labels. Plenty. Plenty. As in many, many. A lot. Including the one I referenced above. and others I had sold personally which later reappeared in "better" CGC labels. So it's disingenuous to imply that this happens only with the "other" companies.

 

As for Biljo White, the guy was a force in creating fan interest, fanzines etc. I think it makes sense to value or expect others to value books from his collection if you also place increased value upon the many, many pedigrees which are out there and whose prior owners were just kids who happened to store many books together. If a 9.4 that was found along with other high grade is to be worth more than some exactly the same copy which was stored away by itself, why can't a book owned by one of comic fandom's founders be considered more than a book which is identical in every other way except that?

 

I have owned some of Biljo's books and I can say that it did seem that he stored them in ways that led to brittling of paper. But the ones that had covers (he didn't seem to mind having coverless books if the hero wasn't featured on the cover) had fairly well presenting covers. So I would not be surprised to learn this Tec 33 had nice eye appeal in the first place and just needed (a lot) of structural support. (though I don't know this precise book well enough to say that definitively)

 

Well presenting and brittle is perfect for a complete leafcasting job. Trim it down to size and voila - instant 9.8 Biljo White special.

The resto on these books from this particular restorer is nothing like leafcasting. For one thing leafcasting is completely removable and reversible. With a brittle book leafcasting only applies to areas where paper is missing. It can improve the pliability of the paper fibers but does not necessarily change the color of the paper. With these books the brittle paper is simply being bleached white and the color is applied directly over that. There is no way to tell where the original ends and the recreated begins.

[bluechip]

How can it be a pedigree and extensively restored?

 

I was wondering that as well. Between this and the restored "9.8" showcase 4 Voldy has coming up in the next CC auction, whatever remaining regard I had for that other company and their grading/labeling practices has pretty much left the building.

 

-J.

 

It isn't reasonable to pretend that you ever had any opinion of the other company except to attack it relentlessly from the beginning for its audacity to exist in the first place. And you've done so while relentlessly hawking the value of CGC'd moderns and variants.

 

Pretty much just your opinion and an extreme mischaracterisation of what are my (and many, many others') real and valid concerns with that company.

 

And yes, I collect high dollar moderns as well.

 

-J.

 

You can collect "high dollar moderns" without ever getting a complaint from me, or even my observance that it's an oxymoron. You can even extol their value to a degree I find excessive without ever getting a complaint from me. But when you devote considerable effort to extolling their value while simultaneously making an effort to devalue other people's property I will not refrain from pointing out the contradiction nd the appearance of malicious intent (though I could never hope to match or would ever want to match the number of times and places you say it).

 

And my observation about your jihad against the other company is no less than 100% accurate. This book is nearly identical to others I have seen like it from CGC (i.e. a 9.4 heavily restored) in absolutely every significant respect with the possible exception of the label color, which you have decried from the beginning. So to hold this up as something that altered your predisposed opinion in any way is disingenuous.

[MrBedrock]

This book is nearly identical to others I have seen like it from CGC (i.e. a 9.4 heavily restored) in absolutely every significant respect with the possible exception of the label color, which you have decried from the beginning. So to hold this up as something that altered your predisposed opinion in any way is disingenuous.

How can you possibly make this statement without having held the book and examining the specific restoration applied to it in relation to the specific restoration applied to those books in the CGC holders you have examined? In fact you are making a ridiculous comparison based on nothing substantive. From those who have seen and held these books the general agreement is that the restoration is like nothing CGC has had to deal with before and therefore they decided not to grade them. CBCS did decide to grade them and gave them very high grades. So the truth is that they are not anywhere near identical in any respect to similarly graded CGC books.

[Sqeggs]

This book is nearly identical to others I have seen like it from CGC (i.e. a 9.4 heavily restored) in absolutely every significant respect with the possible exception of the label color, which you have decried from the beginning. So to hold this up as something that altered your predisposed opinion in any way is disingenuous.

How can you possibly make this statement without having held the book and examining the specific restoration applied to it in relation to the specific restoration applied to those books in the CGC holders you have examined? In fact you are making a ridiculous comparison based on nothing substantive. From those who have seen and held these books the general agreement is that the restoration is like nothing CGC has had to deal with before and therefore they decided not to grade them. CBCS did decide to grade them and gave them very high grades. So the truth is that they are not anywhere near identical in any respect to similarly graded CGC books.

 

That's very interesting. So I guess we now know where CGC draws the line on a willingness to grade extensively restored books.

[bluechip]

This book is nearly identical to others I have seen like it from CGC (i.e. a 9.4 heavily restored) in absolutely every significant respect with the possible exception of the label color, which you have decried from the beginning. So to hold this up as something that altered your predisposed opinion in any way is disingenuous.

How can you possibly make this statement without having held the book and examining the specific restoration applied to it in relation to the specific restoration applied to those books in the CGC holders you have examined? In fact you are making a ridiculous comparison based on nothing substantive. From those who have seen and held these books the general agreement is that the restoration is like nothing CGC has had to deal with before and therefore they decided not to grade them. CBCS did decide to grade them and gave them very high grades. So the truth is that they are not anywhere near identical in any respect to similarly graded CGC books.

 

I said "nearly identical" because I have not seen this book in hand and therefore cannot make any judgment beyond observing that I am comparing books in technically poor condition which then were restored to get a 9.4 grade. I have seen other keys of this sort graded by CGC.

 

I have also seen other Biljo White books. I had one leaf-casted myself and several pro dealers saw the book and complimented the work (by Tracy Heft).

 

I should note, however, that I instructed him not to try to match the color or disguise where the book left off and the leaf-casting began. I would be opposed to that in general but don't see any way to stop other people from doing it which would not create more problems then it could resolve.

 

As to CGC deciding "not to grade them" I don't have the experience you probably have, but I had no knowledge of CGC refusing to grade them. I did not try to get CGC to grade the book I had leaf-casted, and always presumed they would if I sent it in.

 

I am not trying to slam CGC, either. I don't see this as a thread about CGC or the other company but as a thread in which a person is moving with the clear intent of lessening the value of some rare things other people own even as they hype the common things they and their buddies own which I and others feel have questionable value.

 

It is not possible to grade things in a way that reinforces every single person's idea of the things that should be pointed out that devalue a book. I see books all the time that I think are being over-served by the label. But I consider it poor form to "go after" the book with the intent of killing its value (even when it's a book I used to own in a "lesser" label)>

 

[Mr. 10%]

 

 

 

 

This book and the Incredible Hulk are being bid up by the same three bidders. All three have low feedback and %100 bidding activity with only this seller.

 

I Love Shillers

 

Ugh. You're right.

 

This slab, the other restored Voldy slabs this seller has for sale, and that restored showcase 4 in the upcoming CC auction are bona fide embarrassments to that company's reputation. I see these as no different than the early reputation - killing mis-steps of PGX that caused them to lose essentially all credibility as an alternative grading company when they came on the scene. It's easy to see why their slabs are selling at greater and greater discounts at auction.

 

-J.

 

I went PGX cause i live 4 hours away and i wanted to sell my Tec 1 and 27 Bat 1 and few others. I thought they would sell better if graded by 3rd party.

I know CGC is top gradeing company .......... But i wanted to buy a house fast and this was cheap and fast. I will say this they are way ahead of CBCS and HAVE not done the things that i have seen just to get business away from others.

 

You were able to buy a house by selling some comic books. That's pretty awesome, congratulations.

 

-J.

 

I'm thinking of selling my house to buy some comics.

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Ehh ... Please tell me you didnt type this?