Question for Heritage and comiclink reps wrt Burkey admission 2 2

[Californication]

I just stumbled across these posts (I don't visit all that often) and this is disappointing to hear.

 

I recently ended up with one of Mike's pieces in the last Heritage auction, one that I had eyed on his site for a while. During the auction I ended up bidding to just slightly less than the price he had listed at on his website; I ended up as the under-bidder for the item.

 

A week or so later I get a call from Heritage asking if I still wanted to buy the item at my last bid. I asked what happened to the winning bid but the representative said she did not know.

 

I ended up accepting and buying the item. I obviously was willing to cut the check so I am comfortable with the price I guess. What would be disappointing is if this item was bid up, with the the winning bid not really being legitimate and the winning "bidder" not being someone that actually intended to buy the item. Maybe I am niave to art collecting - it's not like I have an extensive collection - but it feels unsavory to me, legal or not.

 

 

Your situation might be the exact one that many posters in these threads are warning of.

I realise that you are at the moment somewhat comfortable with your "win"/purchase but I guess less comfortable since this debacle came to light.

 

If you intend to contact Heritage again regarding that particular lot the first question I would ask is: did the over bidder that backed out of actually paying for the page place multiple bids on that lot, so causing you to pay more than you might have needed to to win it if that particular party hadn't bid at all.

If the answer is yes = It looks likely you have suffered from the often illegal and unsavoury practice of shilling.

 

I have not read the t&cs of Heritage but what I have read elsewhere is that if the auctioneer is to allow bidding by or on behalf of the seller, proxy or direct, as is legal in some jurisdictions in the US, it has to be known by all parties prior to the auction.

As Heritage allow reserve auctions at a charge/cost to the seller I find it hard to believe that bidding on one's own auction without reserve is "above board"

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that if the members of Mike's shill group, shill for him, they will shill for themselves, and each other, and perhaps have their own group of friends. Where does it stop?

 

Shill bidding in auctions is always illegal in the UK. Maximum fine is 5000GBP / $7200

 

e.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1292179/eBay-seller-fined-bidding-auctions-boost-price.html

 

 

 

 

 

[AnWARtheart-migration]

 

I don't understand how Burkey's shill affiliates wouldn't have to pay a fee too that Mike would have to absorb so Mike's consignment fee even if negotiated lower isn't the full story on activity expenses of the 'shill'.

 

If next month's auctions are off by like say 80% from estimates I guess we all will know what happened. Either shilling stopped out of fear or Buyers freaked. Going to be an interesting auction. Buy the dip?

[Mmehdy]

I would request a full bidders list on "lost" mike 's pieces if you lost...If you won...I would request the same thing..also, see if he actually listed the same art on different sites and whether he was the same consigner...you should have right to ask the other auction houses.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Mmehdy

[pkveronese]

I just stumbled across these posts (I don't visit all that often) and this is disappointing to hear.

 

I recently ended up with one of Mike's pieces in the last Heritage auction, one that I had eyed on his site for a while. During the auction I ended up bidding to just slightly less than the price he had listed at on his website; I ended up as the under-bidder for the item.

 

A week or so later I get a call from Heritage asking if I still wanted to buy the item at my last bid. I asked what happened to the winning bid but the representative said she did not know.

 

I ended up accepting and buying the item. I obviously was willing to cut the check so I am comfortable with the price I guess. What would be disappointing is if this item was bid up, with the the winning bid not really being legitimate and the winning "bidder" not being someone that actually intended to buy the item. Maybe I am niave to art collecting - it's not like I have an extensive collection - but it feels unsavory to me, legal or not.

 

 

Well, you will never know.

 

Unless you call HA and ask directly. But if you call I would be prepared to return the piece should you hear something that concerns you.

 

This is the new normal.

 

Call. I'd love to hear what they say.

[Mmehdy]

I just stumbled across these posts (I don't visit all that often) and this is disappointing to hear.

 

I recently ended up with one of Mike's pieces in the last Heritage auction, one that I had eyed on his site for a while. During the auction I ended up bidding to just slightly less than the price he had listed at on his website; I ended up as the under-bidder for the item.

 

A week or so later I get a call from Heritage asking if I still wanted to buy the item at my last bid. I asked what happened to the winning bid but the representative said she did not know.

 

I ended up accepting and buying the item. I obviously was willing to cut the check so I am comfortable with the price I guess. What would be disappointing is if this item was bid up, with the the winning bid not really being legitimate and the winning "bidder" not being someone that actually intended to buy the item. Maybe I am niave to art collecting - it's not like I have an extensive collection - but it feels unsavory to me, legal or not.

 

 

Well, you will never know.

 

Unless you call HA and ask directly. But if you call I would be prepared to return the piece should you hear something that concerns you.

 

This is the new normal.

 

Call. I'd love to hear what they say.

 

Demand the ID of the underbidder as well as his bidding history in regards to other mikes pieces both in this auction or in past auctions. I would demand a refund of the buyer fee at the very least.

 

[pkveronese]

 

I would love to see an auction house represent their customers and issue a statement about this

 

looks like I will be sitting out the next auctions until I see something from them

 

The silence is deafening. I would have thought the auction house would issue a statement, but maybe it's better to keep their heads down.

 

I'm inclined to avoid the next signature auction, if only out of principle.

 

[AnWARtheart-migration]

I just stumbled across these posts (I don't visit all that often) and this is disappointing to hear.

 

I recently ended up with one of Mike's pieces in the last Heritage auction, one that I had eyed on his site for a while. During the auction I ended up bidding to just slightly less than the price he had listed at on his website; I ended up as the under-bidder for the item.

 

A week or so later I get a call from Heritage asking if I still wanted to buy the item at my last bid. I asked what happened to the winning bid but the representative said she did not know.

 

I ended up accepting and buying the item. I obviously was willing to cut the check so I am comfortable with the price I guess. What would be disappointing is if this item was bid up, with the the winning bid not really being legitimate and the winning "bidder" not being someone that actually intended to buy the item. Maybe I am niave to art collecting - it's not like I have an extensive collection - but it feels unsavory to me, legal or not.

 

 

Well, you will never know.

 

Unless you call HA and ask directly. But if you call I would be prepared to return the piece should you hear something that concerns you.

 

This is the new normal.

 

Call. I'd love to hear what they say.

 

Demand the ID of the underbidder as well as his bidding history in regards to other mikes pieces both in this auction or in past auctions. I would demand a refund of the buyer fee at the very least.

 

I doubt they will release any information unless legally compelled to do so.

 

Ultimately, that maybe is what it will take.

 

However, likely what will occur is people will never discover the fraud.

 

That is what makes the crime?/act so perniciously evil.

 

That which is essentially stolen has been done so very cleverly with the victim unaware he has been duped.

[AnWARtheart-migration]

I do wonder what other dealers may get caught in this web if it really comes to subpoenas and depositions. Might be really really ugly stuff. That is, if that rock IS in fact ever overturned.

[AnWARtheart-migration]

Are there any lawyers in this forum who have thoughts on all this? Would love to hear their opinion. Every forum has a lawyer. Who are the lawyers here in this forum?

[Mmehdy]

I do wonder what other dealers may get caught in this web if it really comes to subpoenas and depositions. Might be really really ugly stuff. That is, if that rock IS in fact ever overturned.

 

If justice is found in this case, then maybe it will act to deter this practice if it is legally found to be a violation of consumer law, then Both civil and criminal could apply here since these transactions were made on an interstate basis. The FBI and possibly postal inspectors, as well as the US attorney and local DA and State consumer boards actions make this very serious. The auction houses, given the level which is at stake, is gonna have to release the information or be considered a "partner" and thus open to punitive damages as well as real. I think they at least have a duty to investigate and inform their clients of POSSIBLE suspicious activity given the admission of the party on an open forum.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Mmehdy

[kav]

I just stumbled across these posts (I don't visit all that often) and this is disappointing to hear.

 

I recently ended up with one of Mike's pieces in the last Heritage auction, one that I had eyed on his site for a while. During the auction I ended up bidding to just slightly less than the price he had listed at on his website; I ended up as the under-bidder for the item.

 

A week or so later I get a call from Heritage asking if I still wanted to buy the item at my last bid. I asked what happened to the winning bid but the representative said she did not know.

 

I ended up accepting and buying the item. I obviously was willing to cut the check so I am comfortable with the price I guess. What would be disappointing is if this item was bid up, with the the winning bid not really being legitimate and the winning "bidder" not being someone that actually intended to buy the item. Maybe I am niave to art collecting - it's not like I have an extensive collection - but it feels unsavory to me, legal or not.

 

 

Well, you will never know.

 

Unless you call HA and ask directly. But if you call I would be prepared to return the piece should you hear something that concerns you.

 

This is the new normal.

 

Call. I'd love to hear what they say.

 

Demand the ID of the underbidder as well as his bidding history in regards to other mikes pieces both in this auction or in past auctions. I would demand a refund of the buyer fee at the very least.

 

I doubt they will release any information unless legally compelled to do so.

 

Ultimately, that maybe is what it will take.

 

However, likely what will occur is people will never discover the fraud.

 

That is what makes the crime?/act so perniciously evil.

 

That which is essentially stolen has been done so very cleverly with the victim unaware he has been duped.

[jeBailey]

Are there any lawyers in this forum who have thoughts on all this? Would love to hear their opinion. Every forum has a lawyer. Who are the lawyers here in this forum?

 

C'mon man.

 

You joined the forum today and in 8 hours have made 27 posts, 100% of those posts on the Mike Burkey threads.

 

I understand you don't like what he did but this is starting to beat a dead horse.

 

You should post with your real name for increased credibility.

 

Thanks Bill I was just going to post the same thing.

[AnWARtheart-migration]

 

 

So there are no lawyers who care to comment on this thread? Interesting. Usually there is a lawyer know it all who just loves to pontificate. Here, in this instance, all I hear are crickets. Interesting interesting.

[Terry Doyle]

Are there any lawyers in this forum who have thoughts on all this? Would love to hear their opinion. Every forum has a lawyer. Who are the lawyers here in this forum?

 

C'mon man.

 

You joined the forum today and in 8 hours have made 27 posts, 100% of those posts on the Mike Burkey threads.

 

I understand you don't like what he did but this is starting to beat a dead horse.

 

You should post with your real name for increased credibility.

 

Thanks Bill I was just going to post the same thing.

 

[Mmehdy]

The safest course of action for Ha.com is to refund all buyers fees for all of mikes pieces which they auctioned off. The sell like a billion dollars a year, if Mike sold 3 ml thats about 580K BP...peanuts to them and to be safe and keep their good standing a cheap price to pay...and then move on....

Edited January 25, 2016 by Mmehdy

[Mmehdy]

Are there any lawyers in this forum who have thoughts on all this? Would love to hear their opinion. Every forum has a lawyer. Who are the lawyers here in this forum?

 

C'mon man.

 

You joined the forum today and in 8 hours have made 27 posts, 100% of those posts on the Mike Burkey threads.

 

I understand you don't like what he did but this is starting to beat a dead horse.

 

You should post with your real name for increased credibility.

 

If I had to guess, probably a attorney....

[Mmehdy]

 

I would love to see an auction house represent their customers and issue a statement about this

 

looks like I will be sitting out the next auctions until I see something from them

 

The silence is deafening. I would have thought the auction house would issue a statement, but maybe it's better to keep their heads down.

 

I'm inclined to avoid the next signature auction, if only out of principle.

 

I believe Ha.com will respond, but give them time to investigate to see what they can come up with. If nothing is found, so be it.

[Bronty]

It's also a weekend. We have to understand that any response would probably require senior approval (Monday).

[vodou]

ComicConnect (Metropolis) as an auction house is involved too. Likely to a much lesser degree though.

[CJT5150]

I'm actually Chris T...

 

Thank you everyone for weighing in. I'll contact them, see what they say. I'm suspecting they won't share too much, but at least I will have said something. When the winning bid went for roughly the same price as had been listed on his site and then all of a sudden it was offered to me, I mentioned to my wife that I suspected...something...but couldn't really articulate it.

 

I do like the piece. It holds a bit of nostalgia/sentimental meaning for me. But having now read through the multiple threads on this and having a strong suspicion there could have been some shilling taking place tempers the enthusiasm a bit.