Top-Notch 22 first published Archie appearance? 2 2

[RareHighGrade]

Top Notch #1 came out one month before Pep #1, so it stands to reason the TN #22 came out a month before Pep #22

[adamstrange]

GCD indicates pub dates for Pep as happening on the 15th of each month while Top Notch 20 & 21 are listed as on the 15th and 22 & 23 the 10th.

I checked a couple reference books but neither listed a precise date for the printing/distribution of Pep 22.

Going by the distributor codes on the Church copies from Heritage scans (except for Pep 22 & 23 where I used a magnifying glass and the Gerber Guide):

• Top Notch 20 Aug 13
• Top Notch 21 Sep 5
• Top Notch 22 Oct 15
• Top Notch 23 Nov 7

• Pep 20 Aug 15
• Pep 21 Sep 24
• Pep 22  Oct 17
• Pep 23 Nov 11+ (or higher, hard to read)

While there is variation in the Church dates, that would not be surprising given the distance from the printing plant which I believe would have been on the East Coast at that time.  There's a consistent pattern of Top Notch preceding Pep in the months before and after Pep 22 so it seems likely that Top Notch preceded Pep, but only by a few days.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by adamstrange

[gadzukes]

Reviving this thread because........

I wanted to send my copy of Top Notch 22 in for slabbing.

But I was ONLY going send it in if they were willing to put a label note.  I gave them the research listed here and and in the GCD about the "On Sale Dates" for TN22 vs Pep 22.

I was told the change would be made, and they even sent me the wording that would go onto the label which was... "Archie appearance in advertisement which pre-dates Pep Comics 22"

So.... I sent my copy in.  Of course I was a little skeptical that it would happen but..... here's what I got in the mail today 

Thank you CGC for listening, and for making what I consider to be an important label change.  Maybe Overstreet will finally make an update soon.

 

[Robot Man]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:08 AM, gadzukes said:

Reviving this thread because........

I wanted to send my copy of Top Notch 22 in for slabbing.

But I was ONLY going send it in if they were willing to put a label note.  I gave them the research listed here and and in the GCD about the "On Sale Dates" for TN22 vs Pep 22.

I was told the change would be made, and they even sent me the wording that would go onto the label which was... "Archie appearance in advertisement which pre-dates Pep Comics 22"

So.... I sent my copy in.  Of course I was a little skeptical that it would happen but..... here's what I got in the mail today 

Thank you CGC for listening, and for making what I consider to be an important label change.  Maybe Overstreet will finally make an update soon.

 

Very cool But now that is “entombed” no one will ever know for sure. Did you least take a picture before you sent it in?

I remember asking them if they would list the contents on the label if I sent my EC annuals in. They told me no and that they thought it didn’t matter. Really? I have a TOT Annual #1 with 3 first issues and one second issue. I guarantee it would effect the final price I would get for it if I were to sell it…

Finally, they decided to do it only after Jim Halperin wanted it done on his copies.

Glad you were able to “convince” them. 

[gadzukes]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:21 PM, Robot Man said:

Very cool But now that is “entombed” no one will ever know for sure. Did you least take a picture before you sent it in?

I remember asking them if they would list the contents on the label if I sent my EC annuals in. They told me no and that they thought it didn’t matter. Really? I have a TOT Annual #1 with 3 first issues and one second issue. I guarantee it would effect the final price I would get for it if I were to sell it…

Finally, they decided to do it only after Jim Halperin wanted it done on his copies.

Glad you were able to “convince” them. 

I have a pic on my computer that I can print up and put with the slab.

I mean..... it's kind of like ST 110.  Doc Strange is not on the cover (but at least is on the label)

My thought with TN-22 is that without an Overstreet reference OR a CGC label reference, how is ANY ONE supposed to make an informed purchase?  

Edited September 2, 2022 by gadzukes

[OtherEric]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:21 AM, Robot Man said:

Very cool But now that is “entombed” no one will ever know for sure. Did you least take a picture before you sent it in?

 

Digital Comic Museum is, as always, your friend for things like this:

https://digitalcomicmuseum.com/index.php?dlid=231

 

[gadzukes]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:43 PM, OtherEric said:

Digital Comic Museum is, as always, your friend for things like this:

https://digitalcomicmuseum.com/index.php?dlid=231

 

That's it!!! The blue hair, "S" on his sweater version of Archie.

Interestingly, Wilbur had been out a few months and never caught on.  Basically the same type of character but Archie won out.

[lou_fine]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:27 AM, gadzukes said:

My thought with TN-22 is that without an Overstreet reference OR a CGC label reference, how is ANY ONE supposed to make an informed purchase?  

Although this was definitely true with previous editions of the guide, not so much the case with this year's much updated edition where Overstreet finally got around to making some long overdue changes, especially with regards to some rather significant valuation increases.  

Perfect case in point being this Top Notch 22 which as you had correctly stated, had no notation at all about the Archie appearance in prior editions of the guide, as TN-22 was simply lumped in as part of the top Notch 21 - 30 grouping.  Clearly broken out of the grouping with it's own separate guide listing this year including the following note: "Archie cameo in ad (12/41) same date as Pep Comics 22".  

As for the guide valuation, not so surprisingly, it took a rocket of a jump from $1,450 in top of guide last year all the way up to $10K for an unheard of almost 600% increase in this year's edition of the guide, as compared to the rest of the former Top Notch 21 - 30 grouping which snailed its way up to only $1,500 in top of guide.  

[gadzukes]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:31 PM, lou_fine said:

Although this was definitely true with previous editions of the guide, not so much the case with this year's much updated edition where Overstreet finally got around to making some long overdue changes, especially with regards to some rather significant valuation increases.  

Perfect case in point being this Top Notch 22 which as you had correctly stated, had no notation at all about the Archie appearance in prior editions of the guide, as TN-22 was simply lumped in as part of the top Notch 21 - 30 grouping.  Clearly broken out of the grouping with it's own separate guide listing this year including the following note: "Archie cameo in ad (12/41) same date as Pep Comics 22".  

As for the guide valuation, not so surprisingly, it took a rocket of a jump from $1,450 in top of guide last year all the way up to $10K for an unheard of almost 600% increase in this year's edition of the guide, as compared to the rest of the former Top Notch 21 - 30 grouping which snailed its way up to only $1,500 in top of guide.  

Thanks for posting this.  I haven't bought an OSG in a few years so I just assumed it was business as usual with regards to TN22 in the OSG.  Maybe that's part of the reason CGC had no problem updating the label.  What I especially like is that they put "predates Pep Comics 22" which I think is an important distinction.

[Point Five]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:31 PM, lou_fine said:

As for the guide valuation, not so surprisingly, it took a rocket of a jump from $1,450 in top of guide last year all the way up to $10K for an unheard of almost 600% increase in this year's edition of the guide, as compared to the rest of the former Top Notch 21 - 30 grouping which snailed its way up to only $1,500 in top of guide.  

My money's still on Top Notch #28... first appearance of Señor Siesta! Sure, Archie is more popular *right now*, but this is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[sagii]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:08 PM, gadzukes said:

Reviving this thread because........

I wanted to send my copy of Top Notch 22 in for slabbing.

But I was ONLY going send it in if they were willing to put a label note.  I gave them the research listed here and and in the GCD about the "On Sale Dates" for TN22 vs Pep 22.

I was told the change would be made, and they even sent me the wording that would go onto the label which was... "Archie appearance in advertisement which pre-dates Pep Comics 22"

So.... I sent my copy in.  Of course I was a little skeptical that it would happen but..... here's what I got in the mail today 

Thank you CGC for listening, and for making what I consider to be an important label change.  Maybe Overstreet will finally make an update soon.

 

Great work! That issue of Top-Notch is notoriously tough enough already which has made it one of those that bidding explodes when it comes around. This gives it an extra special 'pop' now. 

[gadzukes]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:31 PM, lou_fine said:

As for the guide valuation, not so surprisingly, it took a rocket of a jump from $1,450 in top of guide last year all the way up to $10K for an unheard of almost 600% increase in this year's edition of the guide, as compared to the rest of the former Top Notch 21 - 30 grouping which snailed its way up to only $1,500 in top of guide.  

I'm curious.... did you notice any other major jumps in the OSG for comics that may have been "hiding" something like this TN22

Also, does that put TN22 into the top 100 GA comics?

Edited September 3, 2022 by gadzukes

[lou_fine]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:26 PM, gadzukes said:

I'm curious.... did you notice any other major jumps in the OSG for comics that may have been "hiding" something like this TN22

Also, does that put TN22 into the top 100 GA comics?

I actually think there might have been a couple of other books that were broken out with substantial price gains, but can't remember them now off the top of my head.  

Certainly nothing as significant as this Top Notch 22 even though I thought this was pretty much standard knowledge here on the boards at least.  I will say that Overstreet did go through with a much finer tooth comb when he did his guide valuations for this year's edition and pretty much did jacked up his valuations rather significantly for many of the HTF and classic cover books that have been going for a lot of money and talked about on the boards here. 

Examples of this would be the L.B. Cole classic cover books like Blue Bolt 105 which rocketed up from $3,500 in top of guide all the way to $10K or his Mask 2 which shot up from $7K to $20K.  Another example would be Famous Funnies 212 to 214 which he broke out from the rest of the Frazetta FF run and raised their top of guide price from $3,100 up to $8K, while the rest of the Frazetta run was bumped up from $3,100 to only $4K.  Looks like somebody must have really bent his ear on some of the late SA and BA & CA keys and semi-keys as quite a number of those books were overshot compared to what they are selling for now after coming back down from their dizzying heights of 2021.  

Nowhere even close for Top Notch 22 at $10K to be in Overstreet's Top 100 as I noticed that both the $9,500 and $10K price points were very popular for him to use for bumping up many of the higher demand 2nd and 3rd tier GA books.  His Top 100 GA chart bottoms out with Jumbo 1 at $34,500 allthough it should in theory be higher than this as there were a few books with higher valuations that were missing from his Top 100 chart.  

If you are into picking up the guide only every few years and haven't brought one for several years now, this year's edition might be a good one to pick up.  Lots of significant price re-evaluations in there and it's definitely a much more gorgeous looking book with full color eye popping comic covers at the top of every other page instead of the usual bland B&W covers in previous editions of the guide.    

[gadzukes]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:56 PM, lou_fine said:

I actually think there might have been a couple of other books that were broken out with substantial price gains, but can't remember them now off the top of my head.  

Certainly nothing as significant as this Top Notch 22 even though I thought this was pretty much standard knowledge here on the boards at least.  I will say that Overstreet did go through with a much finer tooth comb when he did his guide valuations for this year's edition and pretty much did jacked up his valuations rather significantly for many of the HTF and classic cover books that have been going for a lot of money and talked about on the boards here. 

Examples of this would be the L.B. Cole classic cover books like Blue Bolt 105 which rocketed up from $3,500 in top of guide all the way to $10K or his Mask 2 which shot up from $7K to $20K.  Another example would be Famous Funnies 212 to 214 which he broke out from the rest of the Frazetta FF run and raised their top of guide price from $3,100 up to $8K, while the rest of the Frazetta run was bumped up from $3,100 to only $4K.  Looks like somebody must have really bent his ear on some of the late SA and BA & CA keys and semi-keys as quite a number of those books were overshot compared to what they are selling for now after coming back down from their dizzying heights of 2021.  

Nowhere even close for Top Notch 22 at $10K to be in Overstreet's Top 100 as I noticed that both the $9,500 and $10K price points were very popular for him to use for bumping up many of the higher demand 2nd and 3rd tier GA books.  His Top 100 GA chart bottoms out with Jumbo 1 at $34,500 allthough it should in theory be higher than this as there were a few books with higher valuations that were missing from his Top 100 chart.  

If you are into picking up the guide only every few years and haven't brought one for several years now, this year's edition might be a good one to pick up.  Lots of significant price re-evaluations in there and it's definitely a much more gorgeous looking book with full color eye popping comic covers at the top of every other page instead of the usual bland B&W covers in previous editions of the guide.    

I think it's time for me to get a new OSG

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 9/3/2022 at 12:02 PM, gadzukes said:

I think it's time for me to get a new OPG

FTFY 

[OtherEric]

OSPG is what I’ve always seen used.

[gino2paulus2]

Well done getting that added and what a great copy of a TOUGH TOUGH BOOK!!!

[ChillMan]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:43 PM, OtherEric said:

Digital Comic Museum is, as always, your friend for things like this:

https://digitalcomicmuseum.com/index.php?dlid=231

 

This is the first appearance of Archie.  Call it the first printed image of Archie if that makes you feel better...Pep 22 can still be the first story.  But this should be 10X more valuable than Pep 22.  Seriously.

[The Black Hand ®]

Was there an add for Action 1 in any of the DC books that predate Action 1? If so, what are they worth?

[gadzukes]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:58 PM, The Black Hand ® said:

Was there an add for Action 1 in any of the DC books that predate Action 1? If so, what are they worth?

More Fun 31 came out 2 weeks before Action 1.  It has an image of Action 1 on the inside cover.

Also New Adventure 26 came out before Action 1 and has an image of Action 1 on the inside cover.

A 7.0 of MF 31 just sold for $8000.  That's CHEAP considering it may be the 1st image of Superman

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by gadzukes