Aspen comics honouring Tuners legacy.....maybe NOT (rant) 0

[Real Elijah Snow]

Just now, ygogolak said:

Where you been...

Taking a break for the most part. I decided to catch up on some board reading today. 

[ygogolak]

Just now, Real Elijah Snow said:

Taking a break for the most part. I decided to catch up on some board reading today. 

Convention season....gotcha

[OrangeCrush]

On 7/10/2017 at 11:11 PM, Real Elijah Snow said:

 Please continue. I'm enjoying the read. 

Then I shall continue!

Honestly, you can point to pretty much every aspect of their business. Aspen used to be a company where you would walk away feeling like you got your moneys worth. That changed more and more as each year passed. For example, in 2012  J Scott Campbell released his 4 hard cover books (MARVELous Art, White Hot, Blue Beauties, and Code Orange). I was able to get all 4 of those books signed and shipped from the J Scott Campbell store, and those were all quality hardcover books, for like $20 less than the 3 Michael Turner art books Aspen released that year (The MARVElous Years, The Heroic Years, The Early Years), which were all softcover and of course unsigned. Michael Turner Sketchbook, Vol. 3; Aspen: The Marvelous Years was only 27 pages. The difference between the 4 Campbell books and the 3 Aspen books when I compared them next to one another, given the MSRP that I paid for them, was nothing short of shocking. All 3 Aspen sketchbooks barely matched the thickness of just one of the J Scott Campbell hardcover books. I felt like I had been completely ripped off and ultimately I was. 

At that point the Aspen market had yet to collapse so you felt like if you didn't buy them now, you would wind up having to pay more down the line as all of Turner's other sketchbooks sold out pretty fast and had risen in value substantially over time and I was legitimately excited about those sketchbooks, until I actually got them in hand and realized just how disappointing they were. Aspen did wind up releasing a hard cover art book for Michael Turner in 2016, likely due to so many of the complaints on the quality of the soft cover sketchbooks released in 2012, but the price tag was $59.99. Definitely a steep price for a 140 page comic related art book.

Their 13x19 prints were $59.99, but Aspen was recently forced to lower the price back down to $39.99 due to lack of demand. $59.99 was an extremely high price for 13x19 digital comic related prints. So its not just Aspens actions with the print market these last 4-5 years, but thier entire business model. It went from giving people quality merchendise for a decent price to giving people mediocre quality merchendise for high prices or in the case of the prints, equal quality merchendise for 50% more. You could basically expect to pay almost double at Aspen what you would expect to pay for a piece of similar merchendise from another company/artist. I was actually really excited when I heard Aspen was going to produce merchandise like InkCorrect bottle operners for Lady Mechanika, Fathom and Soulfire, until I saw that they were literally $13 apiece or basically double the normal cost of InkCorrect openers from artists like Martin Able and Jamie Tyndall, which are basically $7.50 apiece and usually on sale for $5-$6. Sure, its only $7.50 more per opener, which isnt a ton of money, but I was hoping to collect the entire series and it just bothered me that I was basically having to spend double the normal price. Basically Aspen turned into a company that was looking to make as much money as possible, for as little as possible. 

I'm a professional architectural photographer and own the same kind of Epson printer Aspen uses to make thier 13x19 prints and I have extensive experience in regards to all of the various digital papers that are on the market as I have tested most of them personally. I was in contact with Frank Mastromauro quite a bit between...well, roughly 2012 and 2013, which is when Aspen did most of their reprinting, and I offered Frank legitimate ways in which Aspen could reissue much of Michael Turner's artwork without it damaging the value of the prints already on the market. One of the ways I recommended was releasing high quality sketch prints produced on digital Japanese Washi paper.

There is a company called Awagami that produces absolutely beautiful digital washi paper. Michael Turner black & white sketch prints would have looked absolutely stunning on some of those papers and at the time, given that this was around the height of popularity and value for Aspen's  Turner prints, I have absolutely ZERO doubt that if done right they would have sold out just as fast as the rest of the Turner prints that were being produced at that time. I mentioned the idea on Statue Forum and everyone loved the idea. I even recommended which papers would likely look the best with black and white artwork and your able to order small samples packages from Awagami so Frank could have done very inexpensive tests to see if he liked the finsihed product. I told him to release a single test print and limit it to 25 or 50 and see how it went sales wise. It would have cost Aspen like $300 bucks at most and Aspen was making double that amount on a lot of the individual #1 prints that were being sold off at the time. In other words, Frank/Aspen had absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain if it wound up being successful as it would have given Aspen access to Turner's entire portfolio of work to make prints out of again and those prints would have differed so dramatically from the original prints that they never would have damaged the value of the original prints already on the market. Frank wound up ignoring those emails I sent him. I even took the time to do really high quality digital mock ups, to give him a general idea of what a Turner's sketch print would like on some of Awagami's paper and again, I got no responce to those emails at all. Not even a simple thanks, but no thanks. He just didn't reply to those emails at all. And instead of listening to those ideas, he instead chose to do cheap knock off's instead, prints that basically changed just a few colors on the print here and there. Of course, the rest is basically history. Aspen lost all of thier best customers one by one, myself included, and the Aspen print market as a whole completely collapsed and set a terrible precedence for the entire digital art market. 

Then you have the fact that Aspen went back and made more artist proofs for many of thier older prints. I would guess they only printed about 5 more per print as they wouldnt want to have AP's numbering into the high 20's for prints that usually only had edition sizes of 50-75, but that is still enough to make a lot of money considering people pay more for AP's. Most of the new artist proofs I have seen wound up being sold to Sunnycomics, who is one of the most successful comic print sellers on eBay. He has been buying and selling Aspen prints for a long time so he would have been one of the ideal dealers Aspen would have approached to sell such prints as Aspen wouldn't want to sell those AP's directly as it would have looked extremely suspicious selling high numbered AP's this long after the print had sold out. Making a deal with a dealer like Sunnyscomics would have been the best route to take. And I know this because Aspen updated to a new Epson printer, one that uses Epson's Ultrachrome inks. You can easily tell the difference between older Marvel/DC prints produced while Turner was stil alive and newly printed DC/Marvel prints. The new prints are noticeably more vibrant color wise. All of the DC/Marvel prints I purchased from Aspen were newer unsigned prints as the DC/Marvel prints that are signed by Turner were much harder to find and were MUCH more expensive back when I was purchasing them, but as the years have passed I have purchased many of the signed DC/Marvel prints I have come across on eBay. So I have been able to compare the old and new DC/Marvel prints side by side and again, there is a noticable improvment in the newer prints. I also wound up upgrading to a newer Epson printer that uses Ultrachome inks so I am very familiar with the inks and how they look. The difference between the older and newer prints is unmistakable. And I wound up purchasing a few of the AP prints SunnysComics was selling for these older sold out prints and they were unquestionably made on Aspen's new Epson printer using Ultrachome inks. 

Since this post is also getting WAY too long and some people in here have serious issues with "walls of text", I will limit this post to one more example and that is the infamous "Last one" prints Aspen sold through eBay. Aspen sold a LOT of "last one" prints on eBay, last one meaning it was literally the last copy Aspen had in stock. These were not #1 prints, again just last copies of limited ediions Aspen had in stock. So basically this was it, your last chance to get this print from Aspen. Putting "last one" in the auction title wound up causing a bidding frenzy on a lot of those prints as getting a print from Aspen basically guranteed that it was going to be in mint condition and there are a lot of prints out there that have various blemishes, dinged corners, etc. I myself purchased my fair share of "last one" prints, only to see another copy pop up like 3 to 4 months later. Many other people who purchased "last one" prints also wound up complaining of the same thing, seeing more copies of the "last one" print they purchased show up months later. Its like magic....NOT!!

Edited July 12, 2017 by OrangeCrush

[Real Elijah Snow]

Wow. That is horrendous. Thanks so much for elaborating. I don't mind a wall of text one bit when it's informative and well written. It really is a shame that they've operated this way. 

[MDR123]

So what do we think of the Supergirl, Superman/Batman and Spider-Men sets coming out? 

[OrangeCrush]

On 7/14/2017 at 11:29 PM, MDR123 said:

So what do we think of the Supergirl, Superman/Batman and Spider-Men sets coming out? 

Honestly, I think the new Aspen DC variants are nice, but nowhere near the price Aspen is asking. Their latest release, which is actually a Marvel release is Secret Empire Omega #1 and has 2 covers from Michael Turner. The color version is $50 and the black & white version is $100. So basically $150 for both, although they have the 2 comics purchased together priced at $125, lol. And in all honesty, its not even some of Turner's best work. They are some of my least favorite Turner covers. 

If the Supergirl sets were like 75% cheaper, I wound be tempted to buy a single set of each even tho I absolutely despise Aspen and swore to never buy another product from them even again as Turner's Supergirl work is some of my favorite of Turner's work. Thankfully, their WAY overpriced, much like most of Aspen's Aspen's products so I m not even tempted to buy them at their current prices. My only hope for buying anything new from Michael Turner remains with Top Cow as they have quite a bit of Turner's work dealing with Tomb Raider and Witchblade. 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

15 hours ago, OrangeCrush said:

Honestly, I think the new Aspen DC variants are nice, but nowhere near the price Aspen is asking. Their latest release, which is actually a Marvel release is Secret Empire Omega #1 and has 2 covers from Michael Turner. The color version is $50 and the black & white version is $100. So basically $150 for both, although they have the 2 comics purchased together priced at $125, lol. And in all honesty, its not even some of Turner's best work. They are some of my least favorite Turner covers. 

If the Supergirl sets were like 75% cheaper, I wound be tempted to buy a single set of each even tho I absolutely despise Aspen and swore to never buy another product from them even again as Turner's Supergirl work is some of my favorite of Turner's work. Thankfully, their WAY overpriced, much like most of Aspen's Aspen's products so I m not even tempted to buy them at their current prices. My only hope for buying anything new from Michael Turner remains with Top Cow as they have quite a bit of Turner's work dealing with Tomb Raider and Witchblade. 

A few months ago I saw the prices that Aspen was/is asking for Secret Empire, etc., and thought that my comic book funds were better spent elsewhere; and they were.

[OrangeCrush]

On 12/14/2017 at 5:26 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

A few months ago I saw the prices that Aspen was/is asking for Secret Empire, etc., and thought that my comic book funds were better spent elsewhere; and they were.

A very smart move IMO. If you really want to add Secret Empire to your collection, or any other expensive Aspen variants, simply wait for one of Aspen's holiday sales, like one of the one's they just had which had everything at 60% off. Rarely do Aspen's products wind up selling out quickly. The first few sets Aspen released of their new Turner DC/Marvel covers sold out extremely fast as those were the first DC or Marvel Turner covers released in a LONG time so the demand for those covers was extremely high at first. Unfortunately, Aspen's greed and total lack of respect for limited edition's once again reared its ugly head.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/16/aspen-increase-michael-turner-harley-quinn-prints-runs-after-selling-out/

Aspen released the Harley Quinn set and demand was so high that they sold out EXTREMELY fast. Supposedly they got a bunch of emails from unhappy customers who were unable to buy them due to them selling out so fast, even tho the edition sizes were right in line with all of the other variant sets that have been released like this over the last year or so. The regular color issue is usually limited to roughly 3000, the 2nd issue is usually limited to roughly 1500-2000 and the 3rd issue, which usually can only be purchased when you buy the entire set, is usually limited to roughly 1000. As a collector myself, I understand how much it sucks when a limited edition you want winds up selling out before your able to buy one. Back when I collected Mondo prints, that happened all the time. It also happens with me with XM statues on a frequent basis. That's simply one of the aspects of collecting LIMITED editions. If a company like Aspen wants everyone to be able to buy a copy then don't make limited editions!!!! Its that simple. A company can't just decide to print more of a particular limited edition because they sold better than they originally thought they would, yet shockingly that is exactly what Aspen proposed to do. The Harley Quinn set of comics immeditaly went back up for sale on Aspen's website and they officially changed the edition sizes to 9000 for the color, 6000 for the B&W, and 2500 for the "ultimate" edition. This is a picture perfect example of the utter lack of respect Aspen has for what limited edition means and the fans that wind up paying high sums of money for thier limited editions. 

Anyways, as you can imagine, all of the people who just spent high sums of money for Harley sets on eBay (many sold for $200-$250) were furious as they just spent a significant amount of money on a set of supposedly sold out comics that were suddenly up for sale again for 1/3 to 1/4 the cost many people had just spent. So Aspen then started receiving a crapload of emails from pissed off collectors who had actually purchased the set. If these had been prints as opposed to comics, Aspen's actions would have been 100% illegal, not that Aspen cares for such things like obeying the law as they have broken various print laws on multiple occassions over the last few years. Unfortunately, I don't think there are any laws on the books yet specifically aimed at protecting limited edition comic collectors, although I could be wrong. And I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this entire doubling of the editon size idea came straight from the mind of Frank Mastromauro. Fortunately, someone at Aspen had a moment of clarity and the idea to double the edition size was scrapped. Aspen never followed through with the increase of edition size, possibly due to legal advice from a lawyer or lawfirm coupled with all of the emails they were recieving from pissed off collectors. Aspen wound up sticking with the original edition sizes and refunded all of the new orders people had placed. Again, this really is just a picture perfect example of the overall respect Aspen has for limited editions in general and the overall level of greed that is present in this company with Frank Mastromauro in charge. And all of the DC/Marvel sets that have been released since the Harley debacle havent sold nearly as well.  The Spider-Man, Wolverine, Supergirl, and Star Wars sets are all still available and have been on the market for a couple of months now. 

And just when I think Aspen can't sink any lower, they wind up proving me wrong yet again. During thier recent 60% off sale, they didn't allow people to cash in reward points and use the gift cards from those reward points. This is the first time Aspen has even taken this route. I have just enough reward points to get one final $25 gift card that I have been sitting on for like 3 years. As soon as I heard everything on the site was going to be 60% off, I was planning on finally using those reward points so I could purchase one of the Supergirl sets since they were only going to be around $35 during the sale. That means I could have gotten the set I wanted (the one with the german variant cover where Supergirl has Superman's cape draped around her) for just $16-$17 shipped, but when I went to the rewards page, the option to cash them in was no longer available and through a comment on Facebook, I learned this was purposely done during the 60% off sale. Had I known they were going to do this, I would have simply cashed in my reward points before the sale started. 

Aspen, lol. If there has ever been a company in DESPERATE need of new management, its Aspen Comics. Frank Mastromauro just needs to step down already. Until that happens, I don't see a single thing changing. As long as Frank remains in charge we will continue to see an utter lack of respect for limited editions, overpriced merchandise, and a success rate of like 1 out of 10 for new IP's. The fact that were now close to 10 years past Michael Turner's passing and Aspen is still HUGELY dependent on Michael Turner's work speaks worlds about the overall level of success, or lack of success, Frank has had since taking over the company. If Frank wasn't a co-owner and was simply hired to run the company, his actions which completely tanked the Aspen print market alone would have been more than enough to justify his getting fired. Unfortunately, he is a co-owner so the chances of him stepping down anytime soon are pretty much slim to none. Thats why IMO its best to just forget about Aspen and simply focus your money on other companies. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by OrangeCrush

[Jimmy Linguini]

.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Jimmy Linguini

[Jimmy Linguini]

oh

[ygogolak]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

.

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

oh

[OrangeCrush]

On 12/29/2017 at 12:14 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

oh

yup!

[mrwoogieman]

Orangecrush, you sound like someone who has battered spouse syndrome. Why do you keep going back to Aspen when they keep mistreating you so?!

[Jimmy Linguini]

You don't have to buy the Turner covers from Aspen.

This is the Panini Batman #6 Limited to 333 copies, All are numbered on the back.

 

[OrangeCrush]

On 12/31/2017 at 1:24 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

You don't have to buy the Turner covers from Aspen.

This is the Panini Batman #6 Limited to 333 copies, All are numbered on the back.

 

It doesn't matter. Aspen owns the rights to that artwork so thy are making money off of each issue sold. It doesn't have to be made by Aspen for Aspen to get money from the purchase. Sideshow is releasing a new Aspen statue. Just because its produced by Sideshoe doesn't mean Aspen isnt going to make money off of it. They will and again, I for one just cannot make any purchases that ultimately wind up supporting this company. Just cant do it no matter how much I love Turner's artwork. This is one collector that is 100% done with Aspen. Top Cow is the only company I will buy Turner collectibles from. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by OrangeCrush

[Tnexus]

On 12/29/2017 at 8:40 AM, OrangeCrush said:

And just when I think Aspen can't sink any lower, they wind up proving me wrong yet again. During thier recent 60% off sale, they didn't allow people to cash in reward points and use the gift cards from those reward points. This is the first time Aspen has even taken this route. I have just enough reward points to get one final $25 gift card that I have been sitting on for like 3 years. As soon as I heard everything on the site was going to be 60% off, I was planning on finally using those reward points so I could purchase one of the Supergirl sets since they were only going to be around $35 during the sale. That means I could have gotten the set I wanted (the one with the german variant cover where Supergirl has Superman's cape draped around her) for just $16-$17 shipped, but when I went to the rewards page, the option to cash them in was no longer available and through a comment on Facebook, I learned this was purposely done during the 60% off sale. Had I known they were going to do this, I would have simply cashed in my reward points before the sale started.

Please, you were rude to them on Facebook, not to mention the bolded comment is not even close to what they said. When I asked them, they were happy to retroactively refund me the $25 if I made a purchase that day.

They even extended the sale another 18 hours to as an apology for anyone who couldn't purchase it.

Aspen does have a big problem of trying to continue to capitalize on Turner's legacy. I'd agree there. They really need to move on and try to make more original content.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Tnexus

[OrangeCrush]

On 12/30/2017 at 4:39 PM, mrwoogieman said:

Orangecrush, you sound like someone who has battered spouse syndrome. Why do you keep going back to Aspen when they keep mistreating you so?!

Where are you getting that I am still buying from Aspen? I haven't purchased a single product from Aspen in over 2 years and never will again, short of cashing in my final $25 gift card. I think I made that point very clear multiple times now. Not sure how much more clear I could be on that matter. And I continue to post in threads regarding Aspen to try and warn people what kind of company they have ultimately become and I will continue to do so for as long as Aspen continues acting like a greedy scumbag of a company. If that makes me fit into your "battered spouse syndrome" grouping than so be it.

Edited January 8, 2018 by OrangeCrush

[OrangeCrush]

10 hours ago, Tnexus said:

Please, you were rude to them on Facebook, not to mention the bolded comment is not even close to what they said. When I asked them, they were happy to retroactively refund me the $25 if I made a purchase that day.

They even extended the sale another 18 hours to as an apology for anyone who couldn't purchase it.

Aspen does have a big problem of trying to continue to capitalize on Turner's legacy. I'd agree there. They really need to move on and try to make more original content.

I am straight forward with them. The only reason it comes off as rude is because Aspens actions have been despicable the last 3-4 years. And the statement you bolded was 100% accurate. They said they excluded the use of gift cards during the 60% off sale. So it wouldn't have mattered if the system for cashing them in was working or not. You still woulnd't have been able to use them and that was the issue that I was referring too. Aspen used to always let you use gift cards during sales, at least when I was still buying from them. So this is just the latest non customer friendly change we have seen at Aspen. Not only did they used to let you use gift cards during sales, they also used to give you full value of sale items in regards to reward points. So if you purchased a $15 comic for $2, they used to give you the full $15 in reward point value. They changed that in late 2015. Of course, this action by Aspen doesn't surprise me in the least as all of the changes they have made are pro Aspen and non consumer friendly. In other words, all of the changes that have been made have resulted in customers getting less and Aspen getting more.

Bottom line, I call Aspen out when this pull this kind of or make changes that negatively effect the customer. Again, if that comes off as rude then so be it. If you were in my position regarding Aspen purchases, I guarantee you would be treating them in the same exact manner. I respect that you have your own opinions regarding Aspen and your entitled to those opinions. And your entitled to comment to Aspen any way you see fit. I am doing the same. When they start to show collectors proper respect again, I will in turn show them proper respect.

And just to show you how much business I have given Aspen, I will include the pages that show just how many reward point certificates I received just in a 2 year period (early 2013 to late 2015). Unfotunately, I cant show the gift certificates from the purchases I got prior to early 2013, which would actually be a lot more than the business I gave them from 2013-2015. When Aspen updated their website, the gift certificate information pre2013 disappeared for some reason. It now only shows early 2013-present, but late 2015 is when I finally stopped supporting Aspen. And f course, this doesn't include all of the business I gave them on eBay, which was a MASSIVE amount since 90% of my Aspen print collection was purchased on eBay and I own over 550 Aspen prints. I currently have 11 Itoya Profolio Professional Portfolio's filled with Aspen prints. If I had a customer that gave me that much business, I would treat them with mad respect and would do whatever possible to make sure they remained happy. Instead I got deceived and lied to and never once did Frank, nor anyone else at Aspen (now basically run out of Rupp's Comics) apologize or try to make thing right. So even tho I am now done buying from Aspen, I still do my part in regards to informing people just what kind of company Aspen really is and all of the scummy illegal they have pulled the last 3-4 years.

Edited January 8, 2018 by OrangeCrush
grammar