Why is there no Platinum Age Forum? 5 5

[Randall Dowling]

This is an incredible thread filled with pieces I've never seen before.  However, it feels like poor George Herriman is severely underrepresented.  Especially given the value of his contribution.  Or perhaps I'm just a big fan of Ignatz Mouse?  

[World Devourer]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:57 PM, Yellow Kid said:

Outcault's Buster Brown (1902) and Cady's Peter Rabbit (1921) each ran for over 20 years and were very popular, as was Gray's Little Orphan Annie (1924).  If today you made a list of 100 early comic strip characters and asked 1,000 people which names they recognized, I would expect all three of them to be among the top ten identified and, therefore, the most famous ten.  Of course it all depends on how you define "famous" but name recognition has some face validity.

Great to see this thread still going!

Regarding the list, Zorro first appeared in 1919 in "The Curse of Capistrano". It was a serial with illustrations. The character did eventually reach comic form.

[Electricmastro]

2 hours ago, World Devourer said:

Great to see this thread still going!

Regarding the list, Zorro first appeared in 1919 in "The Curse of Capistrano". It was a serial with illustrations. The character did eventually reach comic form.

Speaking of which, https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/265?articleID=104543 made a list of characters/media (with some real life people) that have become iconic and popular in America, and some of them make me wonder how long they'll be widely remembered:

1870 - 1883
Publications such as Puck (German edition: March 18, 1871), Judge (Oct. 29, 1881), Life (July 4, 1883) and others set the stage with comic illustrations aimed at adults.

1880s
The Brownies (1883)
Sherlock Holmes (1887)

1890s
Aunt Jemima (1892)
Yellow Kid (1895)
Frank Merriwell (1896)
Little Pinkies (1896)
Katzenjammer Kids (1897)
Little Tigers/Mr. Jack (1898)

1900s
Wizard of Oz (1900)
Foxy Grandpa (1901)
Alphonse & Gaston (1902)
Buster Brown (1902)
Happy Hooligan (1902)
Peter Rabbit (1902)
Campbell Kids (1904)
Little Jimmy (1904)
Peter Pan (1904)
Little Nemo (1906)
Cisco Kid (Short stories, 1907)
Mutt and Jeff (1908)
The Kewpies (1909)

1910s
Uncle Wiggly (1910)
Krazy Kat/Dingbat Family (1910)
Fu Manchu (1911)
Hoot Gibson (1911)
Tarzan (1912)
Babe Ruth (1914 professional career begins)
Charlie Chaplin (1914, film career)
William S. Hart (1914)
Raggedy Ann (1915)
Toonerville Folks (1915)
Mr. Peanut (1916)
Reg'lar Fellers (1917)
The Gumps (1917)
Tom Mix (1917)
Bringing Up Father (1917)
Felix The Cat (1919)
Barney Google (1919)

1920s
Bonzo (1920)
Buck Jones (1920)
Ken Maynard (1920)
Zorro (1920 movie, 1919 short stories)
Skeezix (1921)
Our Gang (1922)
Smilin' Ed McConnell (1922)
Just Kids (1923)
Moon Mullin (1923)
Rin-Tin-Tin (1923)
Little Orphan Annie (1924)
Green Giant (1925)
Poll-Parrot (1925)
Skippy (1925)
Laurel & Hardy (1926)
Reddy Kilowatt (1926)
Winnie The Pooh (1926)
Charles Lindbergh (1927, from his flight)
Joe E. Brown (1927)
Kayo (1927)
Pez (1927)
Open Road for Boys (1927)
Joe Palooka (1928)
Mickey Mouse (1928)
Minnie Mouse (1928)
Tim Tyler (1928)
Uncle Don (1928)
Air Juniors (1929)
Amos 'n' Andy (1929)
Buck Rogers (1929)
Popeye (1929)
Seth Parker (1929)
Sky Climbers (1929)
Skyroads (1929)
Tim (1929)

1930s
Blondie (1930)
Clara, Lu 'n' Em (1930)
Pluto (1930)
The Shadow (1930)
Skyriders (1930)
Three Stooges (1930)
Betty Boop (1931)
DickTracy (1931)
Dracula (movie) (1931)
Eddie Cantor (1931)
Frankenstein (movie) (1931)
John Wayne (1931)
Kate Smith (1931)
The Little King (1931)
Lum & Abner (1931)
Bobby Benson (1932)
Burns & Allen (1932)
Captain Ezra Diamond (1932)
Chandu The Magician (1932)
Detectives Black and Blue (1932)
Ed Wynn (1932)
The Flying Family (1932)
Frank Buck (1932)
Fred Allen (1932)
Friends of the Phantom (1932)
Henry (1932)
Inspector Post (1932)
Jack Benny (1932)
Jack Pearl (1932)
Lone Wolf Tribe (1932)
One Man's Family (1932)
Seckatary Hawkins (1932)
The Singing Lady (1932)
Thurston the Magician (1932)
Vic & Sade (1932)
Admiral Byrd (1933)
Alley Oop (1933)
Breakfast Club (1933)
Dan Dunn (1933)
DickDarling's Adventures (1933)
Doc Savage (1933)
Helen Trent (1933)
Jack Armstrong (1933)
Jimmie Allen (1933)
Jimmy Mattern (1933)
The Lone Ranger (1933)
Ma Perkins (1933)
Nancy & Sluggo (1933)
Pete Rice (1933)
Snap, Crackle, Pop (1933)
The Spider (1933)
Three Little Pigs (Disney 1933, Grimm fairy tales)
Ace Drummond (1934)
Captain Tim Healy (1934)
Clyde Beatty (1934)
Daisy Mae (1934)
DickSteel, Boy Reporter (1934)
Dionne Quintuplets (1934)
Don Winslow of the Navy (1934)
Donald Duck (1934)
Flash Gordon (1934)
Joe Penner (1934)
Li'l Abner (1934)
Melvin Purvis (1934)
Og, Son of Fire (1934)
Operator #5 (1934)
Roscoe Turner (1934)
Secret Agent X-9 (1934)
Shirley Temple (1934)
Terry & The Pirates (1934)
China Clipper (1935)
Devil Dogs of the Air (1935)
Fibber McGee and Molly (1935)
Jungle Jim (1934)
Little Lulu (1935)
Mandrake the Magician (1935)
Omar the Mystic (1935)
Porky Pig (1935)
Scoop Ward (1935)
Hopalong Cassidy (1935)
Big Boy (1936)
Bill Barnes/Air Trails (1935)
Captain Frank Hawks/Post Cereal Campaign (1935)
Baby Snooks (1936)
Billy and Ruth (1936)
Charlie McCarthy (1936)
Gangbusters (1936)
The Green Hornet (1936)
Kukla, Fran and Ollie (1936)
Phantom (1936)
Renfrew of the Mounted (1936)
Aunt Jenny (1937)
Cinnamon Bear (1937)
Daffy Duck (1937)
Dr. Seuss (starts publishing, 1937)
Dorothy Hart, Sunbrite Jr. Nurse Corps (1937)
Joe Louis (1937)
Pretty Kitty Kelly (1937)
Snow White (1937)
Speed Gibson (1937)

Edited June 13, 2020 by Electricmastro

[World Devourer]

19 hours ago, Electricmastro said:

Speaking of which, https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/265?articleID=104543 made a list of characters/media (with some real life people) that have become iconic and popular in America, and some of them make me wonder how long they'll be widely remembered:

1870 - 1883
Publications such as Puck (German edition: March 18, 1871), Judge (Oct. 29, 1881), Life (July 4, 1883) and others set the stage with comic illustrations aimed at adults.

1880s
The Brownies (1883)
Sherlock Holmes (1887)

1890s
Aunt Jemima (1892)
Yellow Kid (1895)
Frank Merriwell (1896)
Little Pinkies (1896)
Katzenjammer Kids (1897)
Little Tigers/Mr. Jack (1898)

1900s
Wizard of Oz (1900)
Foxy Grandpa (1901)
Alphonse & Gaston (1902)
Buster Brown (1902)
Happy Hooligan (1902)
Peter Rabbit (1902)
Campbell Kids (1904)
Little Jimmy (1904)
Peter Pan (1904)
Little Nemo (1906)
Cisco Kid (Short stories, 1907)
Mutt and Jeff (1908)
The Kewpies (1909)

1910s
Uncle Wiggly (1910)
Krazy Kat/Dingbat Family (1910)
Fu Manchu (1911)
Hoot Gibson (1911)
Tarzan (1912)
Babe Ruth (1914 professional career begins)
Charlie Chaplin (1914, film career)
William S. Hart (1914)
Raggedy Ann (1915)
Toonerville Folks (1915)
Mr. Peanut (1916)
Reg'lar Fellers (1917)
The Gumps (1917)
Tom Mix (1917)
Bringing Up Father (1917)
Felix The Cat (1919)
Barney Google (1919)

1920s
Bonzo (1920)
Buck Jones (1920)
Ken Maynard (1920)
Zorro (1920 movie, 1919 short stories)
Skeezix (1921)
Our Gang (1922)
Smilin' Ed McConnell (1922)
Just Kids (1923)
Moon Mullin (1923)
Rin-Tin-Tin (1923)
Little Orphan Annie (1924)
Green Giant (1925)
Poll-Parrot (1925)
Skippy (1925)
Laurel & Hardy (1926)
Reddy Kilowatt (1926)
Winnie The Pooh (1926)
Charles Lindbergh (1927, from his flight)
Joe E. Brown (1927)
Kayo (1927)
Pez (1927)
Open Road for Boys (1927)
Joe Palooka (1928)
Mickey Mouse (1928)
Minnie Mouse (1928)
Tim Tyler (1928)
Uncle Don (1928)
Air Juniors (1929)
Amos 'n' Andy (1929)
Buck Rogers (1929)
Popeye (1929)
Seth Parker (1929)
Sky Climbers (1929)
Skyroads (1929)
Tim (1929)

1930s
Blondie (1930)
Clara, Lu 'n' Em (1930)
Pluto (1930)
The Shadow (1930)
Skyriders (1930)
Three Stooges (1930)
Betty Boop (1931)
DickTracy (1931)
Dracula (movie) (1931)
Eddie Cantor (1931)
Frankenstein (movie) (1931)
John Wayne (1931)
Kate Smith (1931)
The Little King (1931)
Lum & Abner (1931)
Bobby Benson (1932)
Burns & Allen (1932)
Captain Ezra Diamond (1932)
Chandu The Magician (1932)
Detectives Black and Blue (1932)
Ed Wynn (1932)
The Flying Family (1932)
Frank Buck (1932)
Fred Allen (1932)
Friends of the Phantom (1932)
Henry (1932)
Inspector Post (1932)
Jack Benny (1932)
Jack Pearl (1932)
Lone Wolf Tribe (1932)
One Man's Family (1932)
Seckatary Hawkins (1932)
The Singing Lady (1932)
Thurston the Magician (1932)
Vic & Sade (1932)
Admiral Byrd (1933)
Alley Oop (1933)
Breakfast Club (1933)
Dan Dunn (1933)
DickDarling's Adventures (1933)
Doc Savage (1933)
Helen Trent (1933)
Jack Armstrong (1933)
Jimmie Allen (1933)
Jimmy Mattern (1933)
The Lone Ranger (1933)
Ma Perkins (1933)
Nancy & Sluggo (1933)
Pete Rice (1933)
Snap, Crackle, Pop (1933)
The Spider (1933)
Three Little Pigs (Disney 1933, Grimm fairy tales)
Ace Drummond (1934)
Captain Tim Healy (1934)
Clyde Beatty (1934)
Daisy Mae (1934)
DickSteel, Boy Reporter (1934)
Dionne Quintuplets (1934)
Don Winslow of the Navy (1934)
Donald Duck (1934)
Flash Gordon (1934)
Joe Penner (1934)
Li'l Abner (1934)
Melvin Purvis (1934)
Og, Son of Fire (1934)
Operator #5 (1934)
Roscoe Turner (1934)
Secret Agent X-9 (1934)
Shirley Temple (1934)
Terry & The Pirates (1934)
China Clipper (1935)
Devil Dogs of the Air (1935)
Fibber McGee and Molly (1935)
Jungle Jim (1934)
Little Lulu (1935)
Mandrake the Magician (1935)
Omar the Mystic (1935)
Porky Pig (1935)
Scoop Ward (1935)
Hopalong Cassidy (1935)
Big Boy (1936)
Bill Barnes/Air Trails (1935)
Captain Frank Hawks/Post Cereal Campaign (1935)
Baby Snooks (1936)
Billy and Ruth (1936)
Charlie McCarthy (1936)
Gangbusters (1936)
The Green Hornet (1936)
Kukla, Fran and Ollie (1936)
Phantom (1936)
Renfrew of the Mounted (1936)
Aunt Jenny (1937)
Cinnamon Bear (1937)
Daffy Duck (1937)
Dr. Seuss (starts publishing, 1937)
Dorothy Hart, Sunbrite Jr. Nurse Corps (1937)
Joe Louis (1937)
Pretty Kitty Kelly (1937)
Snow White (1937)
Speed Gibson (1937)

 

19 hours ago, Electricmastro said:

Speaking of which, https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/265?articleID=104543 made a list of characters/media (with some real life people) that have become iconic and popular in America, and some of them make me wonder how long they'll be widely remembered:

1870 - 1883
Publications such as Puck (German edition: March 18, 1871), Judge (Oct. 29, 1881), Life (July 4, 1883) and others set the stage with comic illustrations aimed at adults.

1880s
The Brownies (1883)
Sherlock Holmes (1887)

1890s
Aunt Jemima (1892)
Yellow Kid (1895)
Frank Merriwell (1896)
Little Pinkies (1896)
Katzenjammer Kids (1897)
Little Tigers/Mr. Jack (1898)

1900s
Wizard of Oz (1900)
Foxy Grandpa (1901)
Alphonse & Gaston (1902)
Buster Brown (1902)
Happy Hooligan (1902)
Peter Rabbit (1902)
Campbell Kids (1904)
Little Jimmy (1904)
Peter Pan (1904)
Little Nemo (1906)
Cisco Kid (Short stories, 1907)
Mutt and Jeff (1908)
The Kewpies (1909)

1910s
Uncle Wiggly (1910)
Krazy Kat/Dingbat Family (1910)
Fu Manchu (1911)
Hoot Gibson (1911)
Tarzan (1912)
Babe Ruth (1914 professional career begins)
Charlie Chaplin (1914, film career)
William S. Hart (1914)
Raggedy Ann (1915)
Toonerville Folks (1915)
Mr. Peanut (1916)
Reg'lar Fellers (1917)
The Gumps (1917)
Tom Mix (1917)
Bringing Up Father (1917)
Felix The Cat (1919)
Barney Google (1919)

1920s
Bonzo (1920)
Buck Jones (1920)
Ken Maynard (1920)
Zorro (1920 movie, 1919 short stories)
Skeezix (1921)
Our Gang (1922)
Smilin' Ed McConnell (1922)
Just Kids (1923)
Moon Mullin (1923)
Rin-Tin-Tin (1923)
Little Orphan Annie (1924)
Green Giant (1925)
Poll-Parrot (1925)
Skippy (1925)
Laurel & Hardy (1926)
Reddy Kilowatt (1926)
Winnie The Pooh (1926)
Charles Lindbergh (1927, from his flight)
Joe E. Brown (1927)
Kayo (1927)
Pez (1927)
Open Road for Boys (1927)
Joe Palooka (1928)
Mickey Mouse (1928)
Minnie Mouse (1928)
Tim Tyler (1928)
Uncle Don (1928)
Air Juniors (1929)
Amos 'n' Andy (1929)
Buck Rogers (1929)
Popeye (1929)
Seth Parker (1929)
Sky Climbers (1929)
Skyroads (1929)
Tim (1929)

1930s
Blondie (1930)
Clara, Lu 'n' Em (1930)
Pluto (1930)
The Shadow (1930)
Skyriders (1930)
Three Stooges (1930)
Betty Boop (1931)
DickTracy (1931)
Dracula (movie) (1931)
Eddie Cantor (1931)
Frankenstein (movie) (1931)
John Wayne (1931)
Kate Smith (1931)
The Little King (1931)
Lum & Abner (1931)
Bobby Benson (1932)
Burns & Allen (1932)
Captain Ezra Diamond (1932)
Chandu The Magician (1932)
Detectives Black and Blue (1932)
Ed Wynn (1932)
The Flying Family (1932)
Frank Buck (1932)
Fred Allen (1932)
Friends of the Phantom (1932)
Henry (1932)
Inspector Post (1932)
Jack Benny (1932)
Jack Pearl (1932)
Lone Wolf Tribe (1932)
One Man's Family (1932)
Seckatary Hawkins (1932)
The Singing Lady (1932)
Thurston the Magician (1932)
Vic & Sade (1932)
Admiral Byrd (1933)
Alley Oop (1933)
Breakfast Club (1933)
Dan Dunn (1933)
DickDarling's Adventures (1933)
Doc Savage (1933)
Helen Trent (1933)
Jack Armstrong (1933)
Jimmie Allen (1933)
Jimmy Mattern (1933)
The Lone Ranger (1933)
Ma Perkins (1933)
Nancy & Sluggo (1933)
Pete Rice (1933)
Snap, Crackle, Pop (1933)
The Spider (1933)
Three Little Pigs (Disney 1933, Grimm fairy tales)
Ace Drummond (1934)
Captain Tim Healy (1934)
Clyde Beatty (1934)
Daisy Mae (1934)
DickSteel, Boy Reporter (1934)
Dionne Quintuplets (1934)
Don Winslow of the Navy (1934)
Donald Duck (1934)
Flash Gordon (1934)
Joe Penner (1934)
Li'l Abner (1934)
Melvin Purvis (1934)
Og, Son of Fire (1934)
Operator #5 (1934)
Roscoe Turner (1934)
Secret Agent X-9 (1934)
Shirley Temple (1934)
Terry & The Pirates (1934)
China Clipper (1935)
Devil Dogs of the Air (1935)
Fibber McGee and Molly (1935)
Jungle Jim (1934)
Little Lulu (1935)
Mandrake the Magician (1935)
Omar the Mystic (1935)
Porky Pig (1935)
Scoop Ward (1935)
Hopalong Cassidy (1935)
Big Boy (1936)
Bill Barnes/Air Trails (1935)
Captain Frank Hawks/Post Cereal Campaign (1935)
Baby Snooks (1936)
Billy and Ruth (1936)
Charlie McCarthy (1936)
Gangbusters (1936)
The Green Hornet (1936)
Kukla, Fran and Ollie (1936)
Phantom (1936)
Renfrew of the Mounted (1936)
Aunt Jenny (1937)
Cinnamon Bear (1937)
Daffy Duck (1937)
Dr. Seuss (starts publishing, 1937)
Dorothy Hart, Sunbrite Jr. Nurse Corps (1937)
Joe Louis (1937)
Pretty Kitty Kelly (1937)
Snow White (1937)
Speed Gibson (1937)

I used to read Blondie in the Sunday cartoon section. Good times.

[sagii]

[Electricmastro]

Splash page from Star Comics #4 (June 1937, Chesler). Art by DickRyan.

[Bookery]

 

Time is ruthless against "pop culture".

Here's the redacted list of the characters most Americans today have even a fighting chance of being aware -- 

THE TIMELINE AMERICAN CHARACTER

1880s
Sherlock Holmes (1887)

1900s
Wizard of Oz (1900)
Peter Pan (1904)

1910s
Fu Manchu (1911)
Tarzan (1912)
Babe Ruth (1914 professional career begins)
Charlie Chaplin (1914, film career)

1920s
Zorro (1920 movie, 1919 short stories)
Little Orphan Annie (1924)
Laurel & Hardy (1926)
Winnie The Pooh (1926)
Mickey Mouse (1928)
Minnie Mouse (1928)
Buck Rogers (1929)
Popeye (1929)

1930s
The Shadow (1930)
Three Stooges (1930)
Tracy (1931)
Dracula (movie) (1931)
Frankenstein (movie) (1931)
John Wayne (1931)
Doc Savage (1933)
The Lone Ranger (1933)
Donald Duck (1934)
Flash Gordon (1934)
Li'l Abner (1934)
Porky Pig (1935)
Phantom (1936)
Daffy Duck (1937)
Dr. Seuss (starts publishing, 1937)
Joe Louis (1937)
Snow White (1937)
Bob Hope (1938)
Superman (1938)
Batman (1939)
Ellery Queen (1939)
Gone With The Wind (1939)
Goofy (1939)
Gulliver's Travels (movie 1939; book 1726)
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1939)
Tom & Jerry (1939)

 

[valiantman]

Dr. Occult (1936) needs to be included in this discussion.

Red cape, utility belt, mystical realms, created by Siegel and Schuster.

[waaaghboss]

 

Recent pick up, my first buster brown. Going to give it a good read when I'm off work.  

 

[jimbo_7071]

On 8/27/2020 at 8:31 AM, Bookery said:

 

Time is ruthless against "pop culture".

Here's the redacted list of the characters most Americans today have even a fighting chance of being aware -- 

THE TIMELINE AMERICAN CHARACTER

1880s
Sherlock Holmes (1887)

1900s
Wizard of Oz (1900)
Peter Pan (1904)

1910s
Fu Manchu (1911)
Tarzan (1912)
Babe Ruth (1914 professional career begins)
Charlie Chaplin (1914, film career)

1920s
Zorro (1920 movie, 1919 short stories)
Little Orphan Annie (1924)
Laurel & Hardy (1926)
Winnie The Pooh (1926)
Mickey Mouse (1928)
Minnie Mouse (1928)
Buck Rogers (1929)
Popeye (1929)

1930s
The Shadow (1930)
Three Stooges (1930)
Tracy (1931)
Dracula (movie) (1931)
Frankenstein (movie) (1931)
John Wayne (1931)
Doc Savage (1933)
The Lone Ranger (1933)
Donald Duck (1934)
Flash Gordon (1934)
Li'l Abner (1934)
Porky Pig (1935)
Phantom (1936)
Daffy Duck (1937)
Dr. Seuss (starts publishing, 1937)
Joe Louis (1937)
Snow White (1937)
Bob Hope (1938)
Superman (1938)
Batman (1939)
Ellery Queen (1939)
Gone With The Wind (1939)
Goofy (1939)
Gulliver's Travels (movie 1939; book 1726)
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1939)
Tom & Jerry (1939)

 

I would be willing to bet that none of the high-school students whom I teach have ever hear of Fu Manchu, Tarzan, Charlie Chaplin, Zorro, Laurel & Hardy, Buck Rogers, or Popeye.

Most of the characters from the 1930s would be unknown to them, too.

They wouldn't know The Shadow, The Three Stooges, *spoon* Tracy, John Wayne, Doc Savage, The Lone Ranger, Flash Gordon, Li'l Abner, The Phantom, Bob Hope, or Ellery Queen.

The only reason they would know the name Joe Louis is that our local Detroit Redwings played in Joe Louis Arena until a few years ago.

A while back when I asked around, none of them had ever heard of Bugs Bunny, but I'm guessing that a few of them would know the Warner Bros. characters now because of the recent Space Jam movie.

[LowGradeBronze]

Before I ever had any Marvel's etc I did have The Penguin Book Of Comics. It covers comics from cave paintings through to pop art/culture through stage, screen, newspaper strips, you name it. That's where I first saw the Yellow Kid, Lil Abner, Tiger Tim etc all down the ages. Its a comics education and should be in schools today, such a good resource. This book is the source of my life long addiction. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by LowGradeBronze

[Bookery]

On 9/26/2021 at 5:51 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I would be willing to bet that none of the high-school students whom I teach have ever hear of Fu Manchu, Tarzan, Charlie Chaplin, Zorro, Laurel & Hardy, Buck Rogers, or Popeye.

Most of the characters from the 1930s would be unknown to them, too.

They wouldn't know The Shadow, The Three Stooges, *spoon* Tracy, John Wayne, Doc Savage, The Lone Ranger, Flash Gordon, Li'l Abner, The Phantom, Bob Hope, or Ellery Queen.

The only reason they would know the name Joe Louis is that our local Detroit Redwings played in Joe Louis Arena until a few years ago.

A while back when I asked around, none of them had ever heard of Bugs Bunny, but I'm guessing that a few of them would know the Warner Bros. characters now because of the recent Space Jam movie.

If I recall, I'd reduced that list from one that had at least another hundred "icons" of pop culture... and even then, I agree, most still wouldn't know the names on the shortened list either.  The question comes up periodically about which pop culture figures will remain popular forever... and the answer is zero.  Culture changes, and so pop culture must also always change.  There will always be scholars and researchers who keep track of older "icons"... but it wouldn't be accurate to call them popular.

One could even question how popular is Superman, really?  Young people certainly don't buy the comics... with circulations in the tens of thousands in a population nearing half a billion!  You couldn't pay most people under 30 to watch a George Reeves TV episode.  I'm guessing you wouldn't have much more luck getting them to watch the Christopher Reeves movies, either ("too slow").  Is it Superman in the current movies that's popular... or is it just huge budget movies with lots of action and special effects that keep the character in the public conscience?  Could those same movies be made but with a different character inserted and do about as well?  Probably.  You could make a $100m Tomb Raider type movie but with Little Orphan Annie as the kick-a** lead female battling baddies all over the globe, and for a short time Little Orphan Annie would once again be a household name.  But it's the movie that's popular... not so much the foundation character.

But it's okay.  That's the way culture works.  Nobody's brain could keep track of all of those characters as the generations went by anyway.  I'm holding out for the new Spring-Heel Jack blockbuster, anyway.

[jimbo_7071]

On 9/26/2021 at 10:08 AM, Bookery said:

If I recall, I'd reduced that list from one that had at least another hundred "icons" of pop culture... and even then, I agree, most still wouldn't know the names on the shortened list either.  The question comes up periodically about which pop culture figures will remain popular forever... and the answer is zero.  Culture changes, and so pop culture must also always change.  There will always be scholars and researchers who keep track of older "icons"... but it wouldn't be accurate to call them popular.

One could even question how popular is Superman, really?  Young people certainly don't buy the comics... with circulations in the tens of thousands in a population nearing half a billion!  You couldn't pay most people under 30 to watch a George Reeves TV episode.  I'm guessing you wouldn't have much more luck getting them to watch the Christopher Reeves movies, either ("too slow").  Is it Superman in the current movies that's popular... or is it just huge budget movies with lots of action and special effects that keep the character in the public conscience?  Could those same movies be made but with a different character inserted and do about as well?  Probably.  You could make a $100m Tomb Raider type movie but with Little Orphan Annie as the kick-a** lead female battling baddies all over the globe, and for a short time Little Orphan Annie would once again be a household name.  But it's the movie that's popular... not so much the foundation character.

But it's okay.  That's the way culture works.  Nobody's brain could keep track of all of those characters as the generations went by anyway.  I'm holding out for the new Spring-Heel Jack blockbuster, anyway.

Yes. It's a little depressing for me because I enjoy collecting niche book—the ones most people have never heard of—and those will likely spiral to zero much sooner than the DC and Timely superhero books.

I have to think of whatever money I put into my collection as money spent; I can't count on getting a penny for my collection if I sell it 30 years from now. Collectors who are already in their 60s don't have to worry about that; the hobby will outlast them. It might not outlast those of us in our 40s.

[Bookery]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:26 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Yes. It's a little depressing for me because I enjoy collecting niche book—the ones most people have never heard of—and those will likely spiral to zero much sooner than the DC and Timely superhero books.

But I'm with you... for me the scarcer and more obscure the better!  And there seems to be a baseline for items based on their antiquity.  Almost any platinum-age will likely bring at least $10-$20... just because someone will decide, "hey, I've never heard of the character, but it's from 1904, so neat!".  With literature it's even worse.  There are probably hundreds of once-popular 19th-century authors whose books wouldn't bring $2 now.  I wonder if we're not on the verge, after 500 years, of even Shakespeare slipping away from public consciousness?  Nobody is likely to read those works now outside of a university course, and I wonder today how many universities even teach it. 

Because of technology, attention spans, including pop culture influences, are getting shorter every decade.  In fact, it is unlikely any work of older fiction can be presented now without being "reinvented".  And eventually, the population tires even of the reinventions.  I recently saw a mini-series based on Shirley Jackson's "The Haunting of Hill House".  There were lines of dialog taken from the book, and the character names were the same, but everything had been completely "re-imagined" to the extent where I'm not sure why use the source material at all?  And this is a work that was published in my lifetime, but already "requires" a complete overhaul.

[jimbo_7071]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:59 PM, Bookery said:

But I'm with you... for me the scarcer and more obscure the better!  And there seems to be a baseline for items based on their antiquity.  Almost any platinum-age will likely bring at least $10-$20... just because someone will decide, "hey, I've never heard of the character, but it's from 1904, so neat!".  With literature it's even worse.  There are probably hundreds of once-popular 19th-century authors whose books wouldn't bring $2 now.  I wonder if we're not on the verge, after 500 years, of even Shakespeare slipping away from public consciousness?  Nobody is likely to read those works now outside of a university course, and I wonder today how many universities even teach it. 

Because of technology, attention spans, including pop culture influences, are getting shorter every decade.  In fact, it is unlikely any work of older fiction can be presented now without being "reinvented".  And eventually, the population tires even of the reinventions.  I recently saw a mini-series based on Shirley Jackson's "The Haunting of Hill House".  There were lines of dialog taken from the book, and the character names were the same, but everything had been completely "re-imagined" to the extent where I'm not sure why use the source material at all?  And this is a work that was published in my lifetime, but already "requires" a complete overhaul.

Shakespeare is still popular in college theater arts departments, and most high school students are supposed to read at least one Shakespeare play at some point—here in Michigan, Romeo and Juliet is usually part of the ninth-grade curriculum—but fewer and fewer people can recognize even the most common Shakespeare quotes. If I said to my students, "What a piece of work is man," I doubt whether one in one hundred would catch the reference.

ETA: For a while my mother was collecting James Oliver Curwood first editions, and I don't think she ever had to pay more than ten dollars for one. Curwood's books were best sellers in the 1920s.

Edited September 26, 2021 by jimbo_7071

[PopKulture]

On 9/26/2021 at 4:51 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I would be willing to bet that none of the high-school students whom I teach have ever hear of Fu Manchu, Tarzan, Charlie Chaplin, Zorro, Laurel & Hardy, Buck Rogers, or Popeye.

Most of the characters from the 1930s would be unknown to them, too.

They wouldn't know The Shadow, The Three Stooges, *spoon* Tracy, John Wayne, Doc Savage, The Lone Ranger, Flash Gordon, Li'l Abner, The Phantom, Bob Hope, or Ellery Queen.

The only reason they would know the name Joe Louis is that our local Detroit Redwings played in Joe Louis Arena until a few years ago.

A while back when I asked around, none of them had ever heard of Bugs Bunny, but I'm guessing that a few of them would know the Warner Bros. characters now because of the recent Space Jam movie.

I checked with a high school junior: Tarzan and Popeye, check and double-check. 

From that second group: Stooges for sure, and the Lone Ranger registered a little glimmer. 

From Bookery's list a bit further up on the page, there would be many more hits.

Still, I think you'd have to go pretty deep to find a youngster that knows Ellery Queen! 

[valiantman]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:45 AM, PopKulture said:

Still, I think you'd have to go pretty deep to find a youngster that knows Ellery Queen! 

That easy, every youngster knows Ellery Queen sang Bohemian Rhapsody. 

[OtherEric]

These aren't new to my collection, but I don't think I've shared them before.  Does anybody else have a copy of the Popeye?  My copy is 68 pages with cover, not 76, but it doesn't seem to be obviously missing anything.

[OtherEric]

This one is new, found at the Half Price Books today:

[Robot Man]

On 2/11/2023 at 3:37 PM, OtherEric said:

These aren't new to my collection, but I don't think I've shared them before.  Does anybody else have a copy of the Popeye?  My copy is 68 pages with cover, not 76, but it doesn't seem to be obviously missing anything.

I have one too. Don’t have it handy but I believe it is complete.