Comic Con sellers seem to be in the wrong business. SMH

[1Cool]

When I do not set up at a Con I always try to pick some of the dealers brains to see what is selling and how each Con stacks up. Unfortunately I'm starting to see a trend in the info I'm getting back.

 

First - I talked to a friend of my wife who sells cute fan-art of super-heroes and cult characters hugging. She sets up at most large Cons in my area and it turns out she is selling $3,000 - $5,000 at each Con with most of her money coming from $5 small prints that she prints out herself. That's with one small artists booth and that's more then most the smaller dealers I talk to. How the heck can a person make $5,000 selling to primarily teen age girls and women at a comic con? My wife brings up a good point that her friend is filling a niche but when that small niche is exceeding sales of the primary niche then you have to shake your head a bit.

 

Second - I found out a large comic dealer in my area did $2,300 in sales at a 1 day Con last weekend but he spent $600 for 3 booths to pull in that much sales. $2,300 in a one day show sounds good but another dealer I know said he sold $3,000 in the same day with 1 booth selling only toys and POPS (ie beanie babies for geeks). The POPs dealer also has a store and sells comics but left them all at home. So at a small 1 day comic con which usually is the bread and butter of comic book only dealers the big winner was toys and POPS??

 

Third - I keep hearing buyers at Cons say "I can get that book for 30% less on E-Bay so no sale" but they spent the time and energy to go to a Con for a day. So I can imagine they want some books but they want to spend less then E-Bay prices before ponying up the cash. But if buyers want to spend less then E-Bay prices for books then what incentives are there to dealers to not list their books on E-Bay and avoid the hassles and work of setting up at Cons?

 

I guess you could say that clearing out $1 books that do not sell on E-Bay is a valid reason to set up at a Con. But the last few Cons I've been to there are guys selling books for 2/$1 and these are not just 90s drek. It takes a lot of $0.50 sales to make up booth fees if that is the reason you are setting up at all.

 

All the Cons in my area are completely sold out (in terms of booths) a year in advance so money must be made but the info I'm getting in does not bode well for comics sales at Cons.

[MadGenius]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

[1Cool]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

That makes sense if you said you want to pay E-Bay prices but you said less then E-Bay prices. So if a buyer wants 10% off of E-Bay and E-Bay takes 10% then its a wash. Paypal takes 3% so cash is king but if a dealer's fees (gas, booth fees, hotel?, helpers?) is only 3% of sales then they are selling a TON of books! The more I look at the numbers a Con is a great place for a buyer (tons of competitions, able to feel and see the book, no shipping cost) but not so much from a sellers prospective.

 

The dealer who sold $2,400 with 3 booths said his biggest book was a 9.4 ASM 300 which the guy talked him down to $250. He is a pretty tight grader so $250 is probably about what he could have gotten with a bit of patience on E-Bay. And with his set up fees eating up 1/3 of his sales that brings that 9.4 ASM 300 down to $175 which is not very good in my book. I guess people look it as cash is king so why look too hard at the numbers coming in and out.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

I would suggest that con prices should be higher than eBay prices. For the seller, the costs of setting up at a con far exceeds any saving on eBay fees.

 

From a buyer's point of view, they have the ability to properly gauge the book that they are buying, don't have to pay shipping, and don't risk non-delivery of goods. That, IMHO, is worth a premium above eBay prices.

[mysterio]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

These are reasons that I expect to pay a little MORE as a buyer at a con. Having a book in hand and being able to walk off with it immediately after the purchase are why con purchases should cost a bit more. You actually get better opportunities to purchase books you know you will be happy with, and instant gratification to boot. If you expect to get all that at a discount I think you're being a little unrealistic.

 

It costs dealers more to set up at a con than it does to sell online. That, plus giving up an entire weekend when they could be doing something else, or nothing at all. That costs money too.

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

[1Cool]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

These are reasons that I expect to pay a little MORE as a buyer at a con. Having a book in hand and being able to walk off with it immediately after the purchase are why con purchases should cost a bit more. You actually get better opportunities to purchase books you know you will be happy with, and instant gratification to boot. If you expect to get all that at a discount I think you're being a little unrealistic.

 

It costs dealers more to set up at a con than it does to sell online. That, plus giving up an entire weekend when they could be doing something else, or nothing at all. That costs money too.

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth, and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

He is local and I think he said he just uses a buddies pick up truck with tarps so his $200 one booth set up fees are his only fees. He did say his exclusives (not even sure what exactly that is ) are where the money is at. I'm assuming he buys a case and gets a couple rare ones in the batch?

[1Cool]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

These are reasons that I expect to pay a little MORE as a buyer at a con. Having a book in hand and being able to walk off with it immediately after the purchase are why con purchases should cost a bit more. You actually get better opportunities to purchase books you know you will be happy with, and instant gratification to boot. If you expect to get all that at a discount I think you're being a little unrealistic.

 

It costs dealers more to set up at a con than it does to sell online. That, plus giving up an entire weekend when they could be doing something else, or nothing at all. That costs money too.

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

I'd have to say 10% of the people I've dealt with at Cons fall into this category. Wants nice condition books and expects to pay a bit of a premium at a Con. The remaining 90% of people are either fellow flippers who want it ultra cheap or guys who want a book they need but want it for 10% off E-Bay prices since they think cash is king.

[mysterio]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

These are reasons that I expect to pay a little MORE as a buyer at a con. Having a book in hand and being able to walk off with it immediately after the purchase are why con purchases should cost a bit more. You actually get better opportunities to purchase books you know you will be happy with, and instant gratification to boot. If you expect to get all that at a discount I think you're being a little unrealistic.

 

It costs dealers more to set up at a con than it does to sell online. That, plus giving up an entire weekend when they could be doing something else, or nothing at all. That costs money too.

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

I'd have to say 10% of the people I've dealt with at Cons fall into this category. Wants nice condition books and expects to pay a bit of a premium at a Con. The remaining 90% of people are either fellow flippers who want it ultra cheap or guys who want a book they need but want it for 10% off E-Bay prices since they think cash is king.

 

And a peaking of this trend may be why sales (at least for us) seem to be down in 2016 over 2015. If people aren't buying books to collect this may be a sign of the coming apocalypse.

[FrankCastle]

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

Bingo! To me what it comes down to is what used to be thought of as a fair profit margin at a show has changed so significantly most of us can't understand why anyone shows up anymore to sell! Buying a comic for $7.75 and selling it for $10.00 99% of us would NEVER consider. However these guys selling pop vinyl, or statues, or whatever the hottest thing is at the moment, that's exactly what they're doing. It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that with costs of product and tables exceeding $2000 and doing $2500 in sales is a waste of a day. But yet that's so many of these guys are doing nowadays. It's nuts. But it absolutely IS the state of the market.

 

Jay

[Couchy81]

As a buyer at cons I can say what I look for in books I'm collecting for my PC is not a "deal". I dont waste hours digging long boxes to save a few bucks on a semi-key. I browse the room for the books I'm looking for, and I'm happy paying market (ebay) price on books the meet or exceed the expected condition for that price. For example I was searching for a book in good shape at the $40 price point. I found it at multiple dealers for around that price but only one of them met the grade. The rest were dinged up and I would have been sorely disappointed if I bought them off eBay for market price with their flaws. The benefit of the con is getting to inspect the books up close in person and is worth the price of admission / market rate.

[1Cool]

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

Bingo! To me what it comes down to is what used to be thought of as a fair profit margin at a show has changed so significantly most of us can't understand why anyone shows up anymore to sell! Buying a comic for $7.75 and selling it for $10.00 99% of us would NEVER consider. However these guys selling pop vinyl, or statues, or whatever the hottest thing is at the moment, that's exactly what they're doing. It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that with costs of product and tables exceeding $2000 and doing $2500 in sales is a waste of a day. But yet that's so many of these guys are doing nowadays. It's nuts. But it absolutely IS the state of the market.

 

Jay

 

My wife and I were talking about this exact topic and she made a good point that $500 in profit for a days work (using your $2,500 and $2,000 example) is more them most people earn in a days work. But what she didn't account for is the additional time necessary to have a huge booth that will bring in $2,500 at a 1 day Con. It probably took 24 additional hours worth of work for that one Con and that assumes you do a few Cons a year so you can distribute the time out a bit. So you made $500 and it took 4 days worth of work to net the $500. Not minimum wage but definitely not a ton of cash for the work.

[Fan Boy]

I go to a local comic book show as a vendor with a buddy as my co-vendor. We both pool our costs on rental table and on most of our books to sell. We did had considered in trying out in a larger con which last for 2-3 days. Did some number crunching and found out that will not work well for us. So we stay away from the bigger con shows. We kept stay with one day shows and cheaper table fees. It works better for us in making good profits.

 

I have noticed a growing thrend in collectors in going to smaller local comic book only shows. Many I had asked about what they think about the local show here. They said they like it better than going to bigger ones. Why? I asked. Better selection in books they said, better prices more reasonable they said. Hmm... While my buddy and I were discussing that topic to try serve to these people.

 

The booth table fees in large con shows are in range $400-900 varies depending where its locations are. These amounts like that are too much for me and will not get much profit after paying fees and such. I leave them to the big sellers as they can afford in their business.

 

I am only a small vendor/collector as a side business for the enjoyment of keeping my hobby running on.

[1Cool]

As a buyer at cons I can say what I look for in books I'm collecting for my PC is not a "deal". I dont waste hours digging long boxes to save a few bucks on a semi-key. I browse the room for the books I'm looking for, and I'm happy paying market (ebay) price on books the meet or exceed the expected condition for that price. For example I was searching for a book in good shape at the $40 price point. I found it at multiple dealers for around that price but only one of them met the grade. The rest were dinged up and I would have been sorely disappointed if I bought them off eBay for market price with their flaws. The benefit of the con is getting to inspect the books up close in person and is worth the price of admission / market rate.

 

So you want a quality graded book for E-Bay market prices? I'm sure anyone who buys a lot of books on E-Bay will attest the grades vs prices can be a shoot. The one $40 book you found at the Con would probably have been $60 on E-Bay from a known great grader since the market price of $40 was for the questionable graded books. So even though you thought you were paying market prices at the Con you were actually getting a steal since you got the chance to look the book over and pick the best graded of the batch.

[Couchy81]

As a buyer at cons I can say what I look for in books I'm collecting for my PC is not a "deal". I dont waste hours digging long boxes to save a few bucks on a semi-key. I browse the room for the books I'm looking for, and I'm happy paying market (ebay) price on books the meet or exceed the expected condition for that price. For example I was searching for a book in good shape at the $40 price point. I found it at multiple dealers for around that price but only one of them met the grade. The rest were dinged up and I would have been sorely disappointed if I bought them off eBay for market price with their flaws. The benefit of the con is getting to inspect the books up close in person and is worth the price of admission / market rate.

 

So you want a quality graded book for E-Bay market prices? I'm sure anyone who buys a lot of books on E-Bay will attest the grades vs prices can be a shoot. The one $40 book you found at the Con would probably have been $60 on E-Bay from a known great grader since the market price of $40 was for the questionable graded books. So even though you thought you were paying market prices at the Con you were actually getting a steal since you got the chance to look the book over and pick the best graded of the batch.

 

Sure it goes both ways, there is give and take at shows and on eBay. In this case the book was an X-men #221 and for my forty bucks i got a clean copy and didn't have to pay shipping. The others I found had 6-8 spine ticks and other flaws for the same price. Maybe I found the only copy at actual market price because I could inspect them in person. What I'm saying is I don't haggle guys when they sell me books for eBay prices that meet expected grade for the price.

[NP_Gresham]

Lots of good information here. As a buyer this reinforces my contention that cons are a total waste of time and money

The " premium" I pay for comics at a con comes from the time and expense of travel, parking fees, and admission. If the con is not where I live, this adds so much to the cost of books, there is no way I am going to fork over even more money to a dealer

The only ones who seem to benefit from cons are the venues.

 

[sterlingcomics]

I would argue that a lot of folks going to cons are just as much as casual hobbyists/curious as anything else. Those riding current interests I can see doing better than selling old comics.

 

My opinion: because people can buy on other venues without leaving home, cons is more of a company PROMOTION tool than anything else. Given the risks I see with lost inventory, theft etc (I saw plenty here in the last few weeks) makes me personally pause about selling at cons in general. SDCC is all about entertainment in general, and that thought process has probably swept into smaller cons at some level.

 

The other reality is that comics as a medium is going more online, so people are looking for more unique content at cons except for comics which tend to get more and more expensive for people (and thus is becoming more eclectic). A $5 print is do-able. Wolverine's first appearance? Not so much.

[1Cool]

As a buyer at cons I can say what I look for in books I'm collecting for my PC is not a "deal". I dont waste hours digging long boxes to save a few bucks on a semi-key. I browse the room for the books I'm looking for, and I'm happy paying market (ebay) price on books the meet or exceed the expected condition for that price. For example I was searching for a book in good shape at the $40 price point. I found it at multiple dealers for around that price but only one of them met the grade. The rest were dinged up and I would have been sorely disappointed if I bought them off eBay for market price with their flaws. The benefit of the con is getting to inspect the books up close in person and is worth the price of admission / market rate.

 

So you want a quality graded book for E-Bay market prices? I'm sure anyone who buys a lot of books on E-Bay will attest the grades vs prices can be a shoot. The one $40 book you found at the Con would probably have been $60 on E-Bay from a known great grader since the market price of $40 was for the questionable graded books. So even though you thought you were paying market prices at the Con you were actually getting a steal since you got the chance to look the book over and pick the best graded of the batch.

 

Sure it goes both ways, there is give and take at shows and on eBay. In this case the book was an X-men #221 and for my forty bucks i got a clean copy and didn't have to pay shipping. The others I found had 6-8 spine ticks and other flaws for the same price. Maybe I found the only copy at actual market price because I could inspect them in person. What I'm saying is I don't haggle guys when they sell me books for eBay prices that meet expected grade for the price.

 

With X-Men 221 being ultra hot it appears the $40 price tag (especially if you factor in $5 shipping) seems to be the going rate on E-Bay for a nice copy with a few spine ticks. I see quite a few ultra sharp copies going for $50 - $60 which highlights my thoughts. The guy who sold you the sharp (NM/NM+) copy of the X-Men 221 left quite a bit of money on the table especially considering the high price of the booth and extra work necessary to set up. This scenario seems to play out all day at the few Cons I've set up at.

 

Now the guy who sold you the X-Men 221 probably sold a ton of books assuming the rest of his books were graded and sold at similar prices so he probably went home happy with a fat stack of cash so who is to say he isn't the smart one.

[Fan Boy]

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

Bingo! To me what it comes down to is what used to be thought of as a fair profit margin at a show has changed so significantly most of us can't understand why anyone shows up anymore to sell! Buying a comic for $7.75 and selling it for $10.00 99% of us would NEVER consider. However these guys selling pop vinyl, or statues, or whatever the hottest thing is at the moment, that's exactly what they're doing. It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that with costs of product and tables exceeding $2000 and doing $2500 in sales is a waste of a day. But yet that's so many of these guys are doing nowadays. It's nuts. But it absolutely IS the state of the market.

 

Jay

 

My wife and I were talking about this exact topic and she made a good point that $500 in profit for a days work (using your $2,500 and $2,000 example) is more them most people earn in a days work. But what she didn't account for is the additional time necessary to have a huge booth that will bring in $2,500 at a 1 day Con. It probably took 24 additional hours worth of work for that one Con and that assumes you do a few Cons a year so you can distribute the time out a bit. So you made $500 and it took 4 days worth of work to net the $500. Not minimum wage but definitely not a ton of cash for the work.

 

The way I look in what I am getting in net profit from selling in local 1-day con show ... is meant to refresh my comic book budget to chase the wanted book on my list.

 

But yes, I do agree with your comment above about $500 points

[1Cool]

Lots of good information here. As a buyer this reinforces my contention that cons are a total waste of time and money

The " premium" I pay for comics at a con comes from the time and expense of travel, parking fees, and admission. If the con is not where I live, this adds so much to the cost of books, there is no way I am going to fork over even more money to a dealer

The only ones who seem to benefit from cons are the venues.

 

Who else benefits other then the promoters and venue is a great question.

 

I'd say Cons are great places for high grade slabbers since they get a chance to actually see a ton of books and assess pressing/slabbing potential.

 

I'd also say Cons are great places for sellers of hot key books since there are a ton of people walking around that may not feel comfortable paying $300 for a WBN 32 on E-Bay so they wait to buy it at a Con. Of course those books will also sell on E-Bay but the large number of people looking for those ultra hot books is so large at a big Con you have a good chance of getting more then E-Bay prices so it may be a win.

 

Cons are also great places for bulk 2/$1 buyers since there is no shipping cost and you get the chance to flip thru 1,000s of books in one spot. Can't do that online. How people make money selling 2/$1 even at smaller shows is beyond me but people seem to be doing it.

[Doktor]

I look at it this way, my admissions fee to the convention WAS the premium that I paid to be able to inspect books up close & not pay for shipping. So paying an additional premium (essentially, still paying ebay prices) to the vendors isn't something I'm terribly interested in doing.

 

Because while the argument is that the vendors could be doing something better with their time, so could I. I could just as easily buy the book from the comfort of my recliner from my phone & get it in a few days. But I pay an admissions price, take time out of my day to hit the ATM, drive to a venue, possibly pay parking & gas, pay an admission fee for the privilege of buying products inside, wander through a hall, and maybe eventually find the book(s) that I want at a price I'm willing to pay in the grade that I want, and then drive back home.

 

Paying more to spend more of my time when I could just make a sandwich at home & buy the book(s) from the comfort of my couch for cheaper than my admission, parking, gas and the cost of the book(s)? Pass.