Illustration auction @HA 0

[delekkerste]

I was semi-interested in the less expensive of the two Nagels and the Addams Family piece, which both handily topped their respective estimates.  Nice to get soundly beaten and be left with no regrets.  

The Elvgren market has definitely cooled over the past couple of years, especially after all that Sam Simon collection art got dumped on the market  I don't know if it's just going to take time for it to come back, or if something needs to happen to spark renewed interest.  

[Panelfan1]

Most everything I was watching went over my expectations.  It seemed like all prices were at starting rates until today -when a bunch of stuff jumped. Overall though, this was one of the smaller illustration auctions of the past couple of years.

For those that care - there has been several illustration art pieces (all lower priced pieces) in each of the last few Heritage Sunday auctions.  Since nostalgia is not a factor on these for me, I found those pieces quite interesting based on style and subject matter.

The Addams family piece was not too early by Addams standards, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of finished Addams family pieces out there. Most of his cartoons feature other characters. 

I recall seeing a small color illustration by Chas Addams at the Illustration House booth a few years back. It was in a dollar store (style) frame on the floor  at the back of the booth. When I inquired how much it was - I was told $50,000.  Today I read an article saying they want to make a new animated Addams Family movie based on the old cartoons.  Clearly interest in the kooky family is not dead.

 

[tth2]

5 hours ago, pinupcartooncollector said:

Two Elvgren lots passed today, including one at $50k below the price it sold for a few years ago. 

I guess there isn't an asset bubble in EVERYTHING.

[tth2]

This auction was pretty dead, at least for the pieces I was tracking.  A lot of pieces ended up well below their estimates, with the notable exception of the Casino Royale piece.

[pinupcartooncollector]

I'd say the Nagels did pretty well too.  

[delekkerste]

6 hours ago, tth2 said:

I guess there isn't an asset bubble in EVERYTHING.

The "Everything Bubble" in stocks (including the Indexing Bubble and Short Volatility Bubble), bonds, real estate, cryptocurrencies, sports (team valuations, transfer fees, broadcast rights), art and collectibles (pretty much every major asset class aside from commodities, whose own bubble burst in 2011) does not mean that every single stock, house, comic book, etc. is trading in bubble territory.  You can have a bubble in art without Elvgren being hot, just as you can have a bubble in stocks with JC Penney at 52-week lows (not that I'm comparing Elvgren with JC Penney!) 

[delekkerste]

6 hours ago, pinupcartooncollector said:

I'd say the Nagels did pretty well too.  

Very well indeed!  I'm suffering from a bad case of 80s Fever these days and thought about going after the lesser of the two Nagels in the sale, but it quickly spiraled past my comfort zone.  And the other one hit $200K, which I think is a new high for a Nagel at Heritage. 

[GreatEscape]

I thought the Frank Paul "Flame Tank" painting from 1936 (published in a science magazine cover) was one of the most intriguing pieces but went well above the high estimate (and my final bid).  

Edited October 14, 2017 by GreatEscape

[vodou]

7 minutes ago, GreatEscape said:

The Frank Paul "Flame Tank" painting from 1936 (published in a science magazine cover) is one of the coolest pieces, and went well above the high estimate (and my final bid).  

Yes. I didn't win it either. It was a pulp back cover.

[tth2]

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

9 hours ago, tth2 said:

I guess there isn't an asset bubble in EVERYTHING.

The "Everything Bubble" in stocks (including the Indexing Bubble and Short Volatility Bubble), bonds, real estate, cryptocurrencies, sports (team valuations, transfer fees, broadcast rights), art and collectibles (pretty much every major asset class aside from commodities, whose own bubble burst in 2011) does not mean that every single stock, house, comic book, etc. is trading in bubble territory.  You can have a bubble in art without Elvgren being hot, just as you can have a bubble in stocks with JC Penney at 52-week lows (not that I'm comparing Elvgren with JC Penney!) 

But Elvgren is the pinnacle of cheesecake painting.  Isn't it weird that in an asset bubble, the most prime asset of an asset class is the worst performer?  It would be like Kirby art going down in value while all other comic OA is skyrocketing up.

[BCarter27]

At the pre-auction viewings a couple of years ago, you'd see a lot of interior designers buying cheesecake art. Maybe the trend has passed and we're back down to the hardcore collector base.

[pinupcartooncollector]

I don't think interior designers are or were driving the Elvgren market, or the pin-up market in general.

[Mighty Hal]

55 minutes ago, pinupcartooncollector said:

I don't think interior designers are or were driving the Elvgren market, or the pin-up market in general.

I agree. When a major collector leaves the hobby and offers several pieces, as Sam Simon sadly did, prices can tumble if there aren't others to pick up the slack. Once prices fall, some people worry that they'll lose more of their investment (at Elvgren prices, it's not all about "buy what you love", the financial aspect is a consideration) so they rush to market as sellers, not buyer's, then prices fall further...

The interior decorators aren't the movers and shakers here, IMO.

[delekkerste]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

But Elvgren is the pinnacle of cheesecake painting.  Isn't it weird that in an asset bubble, the most prime asset of an asset class is the worst performer?  It would be like Kirby art going down in value while all other comic OA is skyrocketing up.

No, because "cheesecake painting" is not an asset class.  It is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very niche sub-sector of an asset class (art), with a very limited number of participants; thus, specific micro-dynamics (e.g., such as one of the biggest Elvgren collectors passing away and his entire collection being dumped onto the market within a very short timespan) can easily have a greater impact on the market than broader macro forces.

[comiconxion]

The Nagel examples were better than average examples, but still not the best.  I have to say the prices on both of them were strong and the canvas set a new record @ $200k.  The Nagel market has been showing some ups and downs over the last few years, but it seems when they are fewer better pieces to bid on, it does better.  I think this is a market that is still developing and there are investors buying up the better examples who believe that Nagel is to the 80's what Warhol was to the 60's.   It could continue to rise like Rockwell, but just as easily could fall. 

I think the Elvgrens have been suffering because the market isn't growing and the people who wanted one, got one.  Now, the 2nd tier ones are being sold off and there aren't as many people looking to pay top dollar for them as investments.  And, this auction suffered from having too many prelims in it, keeping down the overall price. 

My 2 cents.

[Mmehdy]

27 minutes ago, comiconxion said:

The Nagel examples were better than average examples, but still not the best.  I have to say the prices on both of them were strong and the canvas set a new record @ $200k.  The Nagel market has been showing some ups and downs over the last few years, but it seems when they are fewer better pieces to bid on, it does better.  I think this is a market that is still developing and there are investors buying up the better examples who believe that Nagel is to the 80's what Warhol was to the 60's.   It could continue to rise like Rockwell, but just as easily could fall. 

I think the Elvgrens have been suffering because the market isn't growing and the people who wanted one, got one.  Now, the 2nd tier ones are being sold off and there aren't as many people looking to pay top dollar for them as investments.  And, this auction suffered from having too many prelims in it, keeping down the overall price. 

My 2 cents.

The Elvgrens  were lower tier , generally there are 6 for sale, this time 3 and none of them were really any good, not even tier 2 more like tier 3. This market is picky. The nagels were nice, not great but the george petty was outstanding...I was outbid on that one, it went for double estimate or there abouts, The HJ Ward was very strong at over 80K and it was an above average example. There just is no quality, look at the earl moran paintings in this auction, pieces out there that are being sold, whereas years before there were 10 to 12 outstanding pieces per auction . When the george lucas museum is built and an increased awareness is created then you will see the market make a major comeback. If quality pieces hit the market also look for renewed interest, its just that good material out there is being held onto, there are some mighty fine Elvgrens out there...it's just when and where they hit market.

[artdealer]

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

No, because "cheesecake painting" is not an asset class.  It is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very niche sub-sector of an asset class (art), with a very limited number of participants; thus, specific micro-dynamics (e.g., such as one of the biggest Elvgren collectors passing away and his entire collection being dumped onto the market within a very short timespan) can easily have a greater impact on the market than broader macro forces.

You left out one 'very'.

[BCarter27]

5 hours ago, pinupcartooncollector said:

I don't think interior designers are or were driving the Elvgren market, or the pin-up market in general.

After you buy a couch, rugs, and color-coordinated pillows, that Elvgren is peanuts.

[tth2]

9 hours ago, delekkerste said:

No, because "cheesecake painting" is not an asset class.  It is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very niche sub-sector of an asset class (art)

Cheesecake paintings represent a much bigger percentage of every Heritage illustration auction than your post would lead us to believe, and they get a disproportionate number of full pages or dual-listing pages in the catalogs.  In every auction there are a bunch of works by Elvgren, Armstrong, Bolles, Vargas, Olivia, Petty, Moran, Maginnis and many other lesser lights.

I think at least 7 "very's" need to be removed from your description. 

[delekkerste]

2 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Cheesecake paintings represent a much bigger percentage of every Heritage illustration auction than your post would lead us to believe, and they get a disproportionate number of full pages or dual-listing pages in the catalogs.  In every auction there are a bunch of works by Elvgren, Armstrong, Bolles, Vargas, Olivia, Petty, Moran, Maginnis and many other lesser lights.

I think at least 7 "very's" need to be removed from your description. 

Even though it's called the "Everything Bubble" (the current state of asset valuations these days), that doesn't mean that literally everything is at record highs and trading in bubble territory.  There are plenty of stocks that are sucking, plenty of real estate markets that are not at new highs, plenty of art and collectibles that no one cares about, etc.  A surfeit of liquidity is not going to drive prices higher if the underlying interest/demand isn't there.  No reason to believe that people would be choosing cheesecake art to put their money in over other things over the past few years.