X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX directed by Simon Kinberg (11/2/18) 4 4

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

5 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

It didn't suck. So your point would be spot-on if it did.

At this point, the MCU and Disney just need to wrap this up, and move on. Including with The New Mutants.

Whether it sucks or doesn't wasn't my point.  How it is perceived (good or bad) shouldn't make a difference if it was released now vs February.  It has a lot of bad reviews.  If it was released in February it would still have a lot of bad reviews.

 

So the article is claiming that when it would have been released might make a difference.  Sure.  Might make a few more dollars.  But still wouldn't change peoples opinion of it.

Edited June 10, 2019 by AnthonyTheAbyss
Bad gramma

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

Whether it sucks or doesn't wasn't my point.  How it is perceived (good or bad) shouldn't make a difference if it was released now vs February.  It has a lot of bad reviews.  If it was released in February it would still have a lot of bad reviews.

 

So the article saying claiming that when it would have been released might make a difference.  Sure.  Might make a few more dollars.  But still wouldn't change peoples opinion of it.

Now that would make more sense. Though some cheered on your post to promote 'I hate this movie - and I haven't even seen it yet'.

BUT, then again Endgame had not come out yet. So many people are now expecting that as the go-forward superhero experience in a team event. So you could also be dismissing that impact as part of this.

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Now that would make more sense. Though some cheered on your post to promote 'I hate this movie - and I haven't even seen it yet'.

Nah.  You know me.  I'm usually the one who reads the reviews and take it into consideration.  But my final opinion is saved for when I see it myself.

 

But the reviews are impacting if I want to spend my money to see it.  I don't think I'm in this boat alone.

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

Nah.  You know me.  I'm usually the one who reads the reviews and take it into consideration.  But my final opinion is saved for when I see it myself.

 

But the reviews are impacting if I want to spend my money to see it.  I don't think I'm in this boat alone.

I don't think you saw me noting you are 'in this boat alone'. Right?

But there are plenty of people that saw this film, or else those numbers would be even lower. F4 was $25.7M, and crashed from there. And this movie could go that route as well. But from the Twitter posts I pulled one page back, there are a lot of people questioning if this movie is truly that bad. So I don't think I'm in this boat alone. Forgot to start with 'Nah'. 

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

13 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Forgot to start with 'Nah'. 

That's it.  I'm gonna see this stupid movie this weekend just so I can post how much it sucks!

[Bosco685]

Just now, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

That's it.  I'm gonna see this stupid movie this weekend just so I can post how much it sucks!

Don't get me wrong. It certainly is not a huge hit, or game-changing. It isn't! But it is good enough. Here's one reviewer I follow that seems fairly level-headed with his reviews.

Quote

Dark Phoenix takes a grounded, darker and streamlined approach to the classic story and wraps up the First Class Saga in a unique and fulfilling way.

 

Overall, Dark Phoenix is a solid finale to the First Class Saga. While obvious reshoots and trimming down of the film made it feel rushed, particularly in the third act, the film will still please longtime fans of the X-Men film saga. Not as spectacular as Logan or X-Men: Days of Future Past and not as underwhelming as X-Men: Apocalypse or X-Men: The Last Stand, Dark Phoenix finds itself somewhere in between as it closes the book on a 19 year franchise.

 

A darker tone, grounded focus, strong acting from the leads, and keen sense of drama between established characters amplify Dark Phoenix‘s great moments. While a longer run-time, a stronger third act and a fleshed out villain would have definitely elevated it to the top echelon of X-Men films, Dark Phoenix still manages to honor the long running franchise and provide a solid linchpin to the X-Men saga.

 

3.5/5

That's about where I would put it. Definitely not a 1, or a 5. Just somewhere in the middle of a 5-point scale.

[TeddieMercede]

5 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

How dare you! 

Although not perfect, it does a decent job in giving equal screen time to many characters allowing them to contribute to the story. And it would seem more than a few people think this. Unfortunately, not enough to deliver the financial results needed.

I can’t remember the last time I saw a movie with reviews this bad and thought it was nowhere near as horrible as the “reviewers” tried to make it out to be. Obv wasn’t great but was a pretty ok watch and had some fun action set pieces. 

Not sure why there was such a negative reaction to the film by critics unless at this point they only prefer Marvel Studio type superhero films.

Edited June 11, 2019 by TeddieMercede

[mattn792]

1 hour ago, TeddieMercede said:

I can’t remember the last time I saw a movie with reviews this bad and thought it was nowhere near as horrible as the “reviewers” tried to make it out to be. Obv wasn’t great but was a pretty ok watch and had some fun action set pieces. 

Not sure why there was such a negative reaction to the film by critics unless at this point they only prefer Marvel Studio type superhero films.

The negative reaction is simple to explain - this was done before.  And badly at that.  

Apocalypse was panned pretty heavily, and Fox needed to re-tool.  Instead, they decided to retread large parts of The Last Stand (you know I’m right @Bosco685!) and put an actress in the lead who can’t play dead.  X-Men fans were rightly going to be pissed before this was even released.

Here’s something to bear in mind too - there was a certain corner of the internet trying to crash Captain Marvel before it was released, and that still made a killing.  If Dark Phoenix was actually any good, the box office would reflect it.

[Bosco685]

6 hours ago, mattn792 said:

Instead, they decided to retread large parts of The Last Stand (you know I’m right @Bosco685!)

@mattn792

Quote

X-MEN: THE LAST STAND

Twenty years in the past, Professor Charles Xavier and Erik Lehnsherr meet young Jean Grey at her parents' house to invite her to join their school, the X-Mansion. Ten years later, the industrialist father of Warren Worthington III discovers his son is a mutant as Warren tries to cut off his wings.

 

In the present, Worthington Labs announces it has developed an inoculation to suppress the X-gene that gives mutants their abilities, and offer the "cure" to any mutant who wants it. The cure is created from the genome of a young mutant named Jimmy, who lives at the Worthington facility on Alcatraz Island. While some mutants are interested in the cure, including the X-Men's Rogue, many others are horrified by the announcement. Magneto re-establishes his Brotherhood of Mutants with those who oppose the cure, warning his followers that the cure will be forcefully used to exterminate the mutant race.

 

With help from Pyro, Magneto recruits Callisto and several other mutants. They attack the mobile prison holding Mystique to free her, also freeing Juggernaut and Multiple Man. Mystique, shielding Magneto from a cure dart, is hit by it and loses her mutant abilities. Magneto abandons her as a result.

 

Meanwhile, Scott Summers, still distraught over the loss of his fiancée Jean Grey, drives to her resting location at Alkali Lake. Jean appears to Summers but, as the two kiss, Jean kills him. Sensing trouble, Xavier sends Logan and Storm to investigate. When they arrive, they find only telekinetically floating rocks, Summers' glasses, and an unconscious Jean.

 

When Logan and Storm return to the X-Mansion, Xavier explains to Logan that when Jean sacrificed herself to save them, she also freed the "Phoenix", a dark and extremely powerful alternate personality which Xavier had telepathically repressed, aware of the Phoenix's godlike destructive potential. Logan is disgusted to learn of this psychic tampering with Jean's mind but, once she awakens, he discovers that she killed Summers and is not the Jean Grey he once knew. The Phoenix emerges, knocks out Logan, and escapes to her childhood home.

 

Magneto learns of Jean's resurrection through Callisto, and the X-Men arrive at the Grey home at the same time as the Brotherhood. Magneto and Xavier go in, and both vie for Jean's loyalty until the Phoenix resurfaces. She destroys the house and disintegrates Xavier before Magneto and Logan can stop her. Jean leaves with Magneto. After interrogating Mystique, the FBI discover Magneto's base in the woods. However, the life forms in the camp are all decoy copies of Multiple Man. Magneto and the Brotherhood have gone to storm Alcatraz by using his magnetic manipulation powers to reroute the Golden Gate Bridge. The remaining X-Men confront the Brotherhood, despite being significantly outnumbered, and arrive just as the military troops who thus far have been neutralizing the attacking mutants are overwhelmed by the Brotherhood.

 

During the fight, Kitty Pryde saves Jimmy from Juggernaut, who had been sent to kill him. Logan has Colossus throw him at Magneto and distract him long enough for Hank McCoy to inject Magneto with the "cure" and thus nullify his powers. Army reinforcements arrive and shoot at Jean just as Logan had calmed her down. The Phoenix is awakened by the attack and disintegrates the troops in retaliation. The Phoenix then begins to destroy Alcatraz and anyone within range of her powers. Logan realizes that only he can stop the Phoenix due to his healing factor and Adamantium skeleton. When Logan approaches her, Jean momentarily gains control and begs him to save her. Logan fatally stabs Jean, killing the Phoenix, but mourns her death.

 

Sometime later, mutant rights are finally obtained and Xavier's school is still operating with Storm as headmistress. The President of the United States appoints McCoy as ambassador to the United Nations. Rogue reveals to Bobby Drake that she has taken the cure, much to his disappointment. Meanwhile, Magneto sits at a chessboard in San Francisco, seemingly human and weak. As he gestures toward a metal chess piece, it moves slightly.

Moira MacTaggert checks on a comatose patient who greets her with Xavier's voice, leaving her startled.

Quote

X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX

In 1975, eight-year-old Jean Grey inadvertently uses her telekinesis to cause a car accident that kills her parents. Shortly afterwards, Professor Charles Xavier takes her to Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters, where he mentally blocks the accident from her memories and helps her hone her psychic abilities.

 

In 1992, nine years after the worldwide devastation caused by En Sabah Nur, the X-Men respond to a distress signal from the space shuttle Endeavour, which is critically damaged by a solar flare-like energy. While the X-Men save all of the astronauts, Jean is stranded and ends up absorbing all of the energy into her body. Jean survives the event, and her psychic powers are greatly amplified as a result. At the same time, the mental block placed by Xavier is destroyed, and she accidentally attacks the mutants celebrating at Xavier's school after a mental breakdown, passing out afterward. She later travels to her childhood hometown of Red Hook, New York, after discovering that her father is still alive. The X-Men attempt to take Jean home, but she injures Peter Maximoff and accidentally kills Raven Darkhölme and several local police officers before flying away.

 

Jean travels to the mutant refugee island of Genosha to seek assistance from Erik Lehnsherr in controlling her powers, but is turned away by Erik after she engages in combat with U.S. military forces tasked with her arrest. Jean meets Vuk, the leader of a shape-shifting alien race known as the D'Bari, who explains to her that she has been possessed by a force of cosmic power which wiped out the D'Baris' home planet years ago. The power had consumed all those it came across, until it encountered Jean. Meanwhile, Hank McCoy, who feels betrayed by Xavier's manipulation of Jean's memories, allies with Erik and the mutant refugees to bring down Jean in New York City.

 

Upon learning of Erik's plan to kill Jean, the X-Men confront him and his faction in New York. As they battle, Erik manages to infiltrate the building and confront Jean but is overpowered by her new abilities. Xavier then enters the building with Scott Summers. Jean attacks them until Xavier convinces her to read his memories – allowing her personality to resurface. Feeling remorseful, Jean asks Vuk to take the force from her; however, it quickly turns out that doing so would kill her. Xavier and Scott are able to prevent Vuk from fully absorbing the force from Jean, before both mutant factions, including Jean, are captured by the U.S. government and placed on a train headed towards a secret containment facility. The train is attacked by Vuk and her D'Bari forces. When the soldiers are overpowered by the shape-shifters, the mutants are freed from their restraints to combat the threat. Xavier confers with Jean within his mind, allowing Jean's personality to gain control of the force within her. Vuk once again attempts to drain Jean of the force, but Jean unleashes her full potential and kills Vuk before disappearing into outer space.

 

In the aftermath of the incident, the school is renamed the Jean Grey School for Gifted Youngsters and Hank becomes their new dean; with Xavier having retired after decades of fighting for mutant rights. While settling himself in Paris, Xavier is reunited with Erik and reluctantly agrees to play a game of chess with him. As they start playing, a flaming phoenix appears in the sky.

 

[Bosco685]

Not sure how factual this is. But the later details in the article seem to come together when you reflect back on the early teasers and Jessica Chastain interviews.

Quote

• Some HUGE OSCAR winning people behind the scenes creating this movie. They ALL signed on to a FINISHED two part -script, and were hired for their experience and talent, to bring together the huge undertaking of filming TWO movies.
• The two movies were to be filmed together. The plan was to film most of the huge action pieces first. So the UN set, the largest of any X film, as well as the New York night street battle set, were all being built. These two sets were the THIRD ACT sets for each movie, with the UN set serving as the HUGE invasion-style finale for PART TWO! Part one‘s finale set, is still partially in THIS movie, albeit scaled down, and with key players missing. It also serves as the close of the SECOND ACT, opposed to a final act battle.
• Fox, with about 2 months until principal photography, BLINDSIDED the entire team, CUT the budget and informed the creative team to scale it down to ONE movie. They were not told of any reason (no employee at Fox knew about the merger until it was announced - only higher ups). They scrambled. They had to rewrite an ENTIRE -script, pulling together pieces and ideas from the old ones, while COMPLETELY cutting out characters, set pieces, sequences, and changing some characters' motivations.
• The biggest omission from this is the Shi’ar!!!!! Yes the Shi’ar were to be introduced and fleshed out in the scrapped two part movies. Simon KNEW bringing them in this new -script would be foolish, drawing away the spotlight from Jean. Having to do their origin story, as well as a certain character’s relationship with Charles, while also telling Jean's descent into darkness, in a two hour time frame, was UNREALISTIC. Things had to be cut guys.
• Fox execs expected this huge invasion style attack on New York, with the X men battling along side.
• What they got was just Jean and Scott saving civilians and UN leaders, Charles is also there, but his powers don’t work on aliens, so was a liability more than anything. The UN attack was scripted differently when this was going to be A TWO PART saga.
• Jessica Chastain signed on to play LILANDRA! When the scripted changed, they had to delay her from shooting, while they figured out who she would play and how she would be involved. Eventually Jessica started TWO and a half months after all the other actors had started.
• In the two-parter, Jessica was to play Lilandra of the Shi'ar, not an obscure villain (consider this a rumor; more on that below). It's noted if you pay attention to the theatrical release that a lot of Jessica Chastain's lines comes off-screen, meaning they were added after filming had already been done (and changed).
• Scott and Jean's footage relationship was fleshed out more.
• The Hank and Raven scene was extended where Hank was going to leave with her.
• Xavier was to leave the banquet with a full police escort leading back to the school.
• Jessica Chastain talking with her alien people about humans, the phoenix force and mutants was extended.
• The inhabitants of Genosha were first scared of Jean when she arrived.
• Magneto's line was cut in the theatrical release; he was supposed to say: “I’ve seen evil, I know what it looks like when it’s staring back at me and I’m looking at it now."
• Jessica Chastain and the Jean bar scene was cut short, with Chastain stating: "You think you don’t belong here, you don’t."
• Some of Storm in the sub-basement was cut. She had a line stating: “Where Scott goes, I go. If he needs me, I’m there, end of discussion”
• All of Storm and Selene's fight choreography was cut, in addition to a few more moments of Selene using her powers to make Nightcrawler band around and get closer to her.
• Jean was also to have slight fire in her hair in a scene, part of which was completed from the first original version of the film and wasn’t altered for the new 3rd act yet, which saw it removed.
• EVERYTHING after Jean stopping herself now from killing Xavier is from reshoots with the sole exception of the school rename and Summer Fontana’s astral plane scene.
• Most of Chastain’s lines after Jean stops attacking Xavier were new, Xavier was just supposed to say “she will kill us all” and she hisses “yessssss.”

 

[drotto]

The central point of the Dark Pheonix Saga that is missing from the adaptations and is critical to the story is it is a personal story with universe threatening complications.  By stripping out the cosmic side, the stakes are dramatically lowered altering both a primary premise, as well as the broader implications.  

 

You get no sense that this young woman, who struggling internally with her power and identity, unknowingly is also struggling with the power to destroy everything. She does not even truly realize this until she realizes that she must die. So by removing the Shi'ar and the Moon battle and just making it X-Men vs. Jean you are removing all sense of the wider impact of her struggles. 

 

At its core that is why the adaptations have failed. Yes it is a personal story, but by limiting the scope to just an internal battle for Jean, and failing to develope the character moments, it undercuts all of the broader themes of the story.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Not sure how factual this is. But the later details in the article seem to come together when you reflect back on the early teasers and Jessica Chastain interviews.

 

Ha ha. Matt McGloin and his Cosmic Book News is one of the more well known toxic fandom fact-spinning websites who completely has it in for the MCU and particularly Captain Marvel herself.

So he's blaming every creative/executive decision which changed Dark Phoenix from a sweeping two part epic on the scale of Lord of the Rings to what we have now on Disney's attempt to sabotage Fox and protect Brie Larson. Got it. Like Korath, I am laughing on the inside. 

But hey, if Disney really did put a gun to poor Simon Kinberg's head and said "thou shalt not make Dark Phoenix two movies!" maybe they did Fox a favor and saved them from losing half a billion instead of just a quarter billion on their X-Men grand finale.

On a side note, how does one make Dark Phoenix a two movie epic and it not be a complete borefest? I mean, Dark Phoenix Saga is basically The Exorcist with super-heroes and outer space. Seems to me the best way to have done Dark Phoenix is to make a series of competent X-Men movies with the same cast and progress the Phoenix story in small parts with each film, culminating in one larger film where our heroes must now deal with this Cosmic Force out of control. Another company did a similar thing most recently and they call it the Infinity Saga.

[Bosco685]

28 minutes ago, drotto said:

The central point of the Dark Pheonix Saga that is missing from the adaptations and is critical to the story is it is a personal story with universe threatening complications implications.  By stripping out the cosmic side, the stakes are dramatically lowered altering both a primary premise, as well as the broader implications.  

 

You get no sense that this young woman, who struggling internally with her power and identity, unknowingly is also struggling with the power to destroy everything. She does not even truly realize this until she realizes that she must die. So by removing the Shi'ar and the Moon battle and just making it X-Men vs. Jean you are removing all sense of the wider impact of her struggles. 

 

At its core that is why the adaptations have failed. Yes it is a personal story, but by limiting the scope to just an internal battle for Jean, and failing to develope the character moments, it undercuts all of the broader themes of the story.

 

I think you meant this.

But I think what we forget is Vuk speaks to how deadly the Phoenix Force is throughout the universe. Though by limiting it to just that scene and not the space portions, it is very easy to forget.

Even more so when Vuk demonstrates her powers in the room, turning everything into mist talking about all the destruction the Phoenix Force had caused before finding Jean. Though it is so brief, the larger threat could be lost on the general audience. That Act 3 would have supposedly addressed this.

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Ha ha. Matt McGloin and his Cosmic Book News is one of the more well known toxic fandom fact-spinning websites who completely has it in for the MCU and particularly Captain Marvel herself.

So he's blaming every creative/executive decision which changed Dark Phoenix from a sweeping two part epic on the scale of Lord of the Rings to what we have now on Disney's attempt to sabotage Fox and protect Brie Larson. Got it. Like Korath, I am laughing on the inside. 

But hey, if Disney really did put a gun to poor Simon Kinberg's head and said "thou shalt not make Dark Phoenix two movies!" maybe they did Fox a favor and saved them from losing half a billion instead of just a quarter billion on their X-Men grand finale.

On a side note, how does one make Dark Phoenix a two movie epic and it not be a complete borefest? I mean, Dark Phoenix Saga is basically The Exorcist with super-heroes and outer space. Seems to me the best way to have done Dark Phoenix is to make a series of competent X-Men movies with the same cast and progress the Phoenix story in small parts with each film, culminating in one larger film where our heroes must now deal with this Cosmic Force out of control. Another company did a similar thing most recently and they call it the Infinity Saga.

We should with a real credible source. Anyone run this by MarvelScoopMaster?  

[drotto]

6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Ha ha. Matt McGloin and his Cosmic Book News is one of the more well known toxic fandom fact-spinning websites who completely has it in for the MCU and particularly Captain Marvel herself.

So he's blaming every creative/executive decision which changed Dark Phoenix from a sweeping two part epic on the scale of Lord of the Rings to what we have now on Disney's attempt to sabotage Fox and protect Brie Larson. Got it. Like Korath, I am laughing on the inside. 

But hey, if Disney really did put a gun to poor Simon Kinberg's head and said "thou shalt not make Dark Phoenix two movies!" maybe they did Fox a favor and saved them from losing half a billion instead of just a quarter billion on their X-Men grand finale.

On a side note, how does one make Dark Phoenix a two movie epic and it not be a complete borefest? I mean, Dark Phoenix Saga is basically The Exorcist with super-heroes and outer space. Seems to me the best way to have done Dark Phoenix is to make a series of competent X-Men movies with the same cast and progress the Phoenix story in small parts with each film, culminating in one larger film where our heroes must now deal with this Cosmic Force out of control. Another company did a similar thing most recently and they call it the Infinity Saga.

Broadly you do it by introducing the birth of Phoenix and the events of the M'craan crystal in the first film, culminating in Jean saving the universe so basically covering issues 101, 107, and 108.  In that film you also start to weave in Jason Wyngrade and introduce the Hellfire Club. I know this is slightly out of order for the comics, but those stories are hinted at through multiple arcs that are not directly enough connected, but have character beats that need to be included.  So your basic movie structure would be events of issue 101, then pertinent characters beats from issues in the area of 110 to 128, then come back to the events of issues 107 and 108.

 

Movie two having already established the cosmic side, having Jean assume the Phoenix mantel, and planting the seeds for Hellfire and Jason would cover the events of issues 129 to 137. That structure should provide plenty of actions, as well as including all the other needed elements.

[@therealsilvermane]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

We should with a real credible source. Anyone run this by MarvelScoopMaster?  

Good lord, I'd put $100 on any inside info from the ScoopMaster before I'd put two cents on anything that comes from the abyss of Cosmic Book News.

[drotto]

5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think you meant this.

But I think what we forget is Vuk speaks to how deadly the Phoenix Force is throughout the universe. Though by limiting it to just that scene and not the space portions, it is very easy to forget.

Even more so when Vuk demonstrates her powers in the room, turning everything into mist talking about all the destruction the Phoenix Force had caused before finding Jean. Though it is so brief, the larger threat could be lost on the general audience. That Act 3 would have supposedly addressed this.

There is a massive difference between saying it and briefly showing it.  In the comics there are three and important events that convey the scope of the power.  Saving the M'craan crystal, which really puts Jean on the radar of the Shi'ar.  Then when she destroys the Shi'ar warship, and finally when she destroys the planet and killing 5 billion of those broccoli headed aliens.  All of those events are also comic and universe spanning showing the power is not just a local problem for the X-Men but the power is a cosmic force, and an almost incomprehensibly dangerous one. But omitting all of that it essentially castrates the story. Plus briefly showing what the force has done, does not clearly translate to what Jean can do now.  The film needs to show her being the destructive force, not just hinting she could be.  The actions she is shown doing in the film could have been done by multiple other mutants, it does not convey truly how far above them she is.

[@therealsilvermane]

3 minutes ago, drotto said:

Broadly you do it by introducing the birth of Phoenix and the events of the M'craan crystal in the first film, culminating in Jean saving the universe so basically covering issues 101, 107, and 108.  In that film you also start to weave in Jason Wyngrade and introduce the Hellfire Club. I know this is slightly out of order for the comics, but those stories are hinted at through multiple arcs that are not directly enough connected, but have character beats that need to be included.  So your basic movie structure would be events of issue 101, then pertinent characters beats from issues in the area of 110 to 128, then come back to the events of issues 107 and 108.

 

Movie two having already established the cosmic side, having Jean assume the Phoenix mantel, and planting the seeds for Hellfire and Jason would cover the events of issues 129 to 137. That structure should provide plenty of actions, as well as including all the other needed elements.

Key to that is we have to care about Jean Grey. In the Bryan Singer movies, we hardly know Famke's Jean Grey (as SInger's focus was on Wolverine) before the final battle of X2 and then get thrown into that dumpster heap called Last Stand. At least with Sophie Turner's Jean, there was an attempt in Apocalypse to focus a little more story on Jean and her inner struggles (obviously setting up for a Phoenix story). But really knowing the character and having spent time with her was also key in the comic books. As you flip through the pages of X-Men #135 and #136, we're desperate for Charles Xavier and the team to find some way to cure Jean because Chris Claremont developed her as someone we all (incl. Cyclops and Logan) cared about. Over in the MCU, the deaths of Stark, Natasha, Gamora, Loki, etc. had resonance because we also spent time with them in good stories which developed their character.

Maybe Kevin Feige and co. can turn Jean Grey into someone we can care about. Though I think they should leave Dark Phoenix to the ashes.

[drotto]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Key to that is we have to care about Jean Grey. In the Bryan Singer movies, we hardly know Famke's Jean Grey (as SInger's focus was on Wolverine) before the final battle of X2 and then get thrown into that dumpster heap called Last Stand. At least with Sophie Turner's Jean, there was an attempt in Apocalypse to focus a little more story on Jean and her inner struggles (obviously setting up for a Phoenix story). But really knowing the character and having spent time with her was also key in the comic books. As you flip through the pages of X-Men #135 and #136, we're desperate for Charles Xavier and the team to find some way to cure Jean because Chris Claremont developed her as someone we all (incl. Cyclops and Logan) cared about. Over in the MCU, the deaths of Stark, Natasha, Gamora, Loki, etc. had resonance because we also spent time with them in good stories which developed their character.

Maybe Kevin Feige and co. can turn Jean Grey into someone we can care about. Though I think they should leave Dark Phoenix to the ashes.

In theory, if the two movie rumor is true, you would have had all the material needed to care about Jean.  In the first movie dealing with her getting the power and then indeed being the ultimate hero and saving the universe with the M'craan story-line.  You also give yourself time to introduce the inner-struggle and manipulations of Jason. If done right audiences should care at that point, show she is exceedingly powerful, but also have planted the seeds for her downfall.  Then movie two is the Dark Phoenix events proper.  

 

I think money is ultimately the reason for the changes. Investing 400 million in production of two films on an old and maybe dying franchise on paper does not make sense. It could have been great, but would have required making Jean the center of the X-universe and not Logan, which nobody seems like they were willing to take that risk. It would have meant evolving the franchise in order to strengthen and ultimately save it. But with everything we now know was happening behind the scenes and with Disney, it may have been impossible.

[Prince Namor]

When did $362 Million Worldwide on a $100 Million Budget become a failure in this business?