Marvel Pence Priced Variants
17 17

871 posts in this topic

10,760 posts
On 08/07/2017 at 10:38 AM, Marwood & I said:

So the pattern suggests the first two were 9d printed copies with the next three that I have found being 10c printed copies with cover stamps and the additional L Miller indicia data. The purpose of this rambling is to support my theory that pence printed copies for Gunsmoke Western numbers 60 to 65 probably don't exist because:

  • L Miller were the only publisher importing them from 58 to at least 65 (Thorpe & Porter's first confirmed indicia copy being #72)
  • The L Miller copies from #60 are all cents printed copies

The only way a 9d printed copy of Gunsmoke Western #60-65 can exist, would be if Thorpe & Porter imported them alongside L Miller, or if L Miller imported a mix of cents and pence printed copies. Both seem unlikely.

 

Hello.

A few posts back I put forward my theory as to why Gunsmoke Western 60 to 65 probably don't exist as pence printed copies (see above extract and work back, if you can stand the excitement).

Thinking on it further, like you do when the Englandville weather prompts you to stay indoors for the 17th consecutive summer day, I'm working on extending that theory to two other titles on my pence 'missing list'. If you look at this snap shot of our pence spreadsheet, you can see the 5 western titles that Marvel were producing from May 1960:

westerns.thumb.PNG.075eba321a02d5150534d10d2154d8d7.PNG

Now L Miller (as we know from my other tedious ramblings posts) liked to produce repackaged copies of Atlas/Marvel westerns for the UK market. So they already had a foot in the door so to speak and this likely explains why the first printing Gunsmoke Western and (so far one confirmed) Rawhide Kid titles started off being solicited by them until Thorpe & Porter took over fully in late 61.

We can discount Kid Colt Outlaw I think, as we have a confirmed T&P 9d copy of #91,96 and 97 (my 9d #99 and 100 have no additional indicia details, curiously). I only have a cover scan of Wyatt Earp #29 (the final issue in the run) so cannot at present determine the indicia type (L Miller, T&P or blank). No stamp on it's cover.

If we look at the other two titles:

 

Rawhide Kid:

  • There are currently no 9d copies found from the September 1960 to July 1961 window (i.e. the Gunsmoke Western 60-65 window)
  • I have a cover scan only of #17 which shows an 'L Miller' 6d stamp, potentially indicating that this could be an L Miller copy. Being a 9d printed copy, this would follow the Gunsmoke Western approach where the first L Miller copies are 9d, and then revert to cents with L Miller indicias and cover stamps

          9d.PNG.4b1052a0d06f85062e9f313c1d7507da.PNG

  • So issues 18 to 23 may not exist as pence printed copies, but may exist as cents copies with L Miller cover stamps / indicias (we have a confirmed L Miller 10c #19)

 

Two-Gun Kid:

  • There are currently no 9d copies found from the September 1960 to July 1961 window (the Gunsmoke Western 60-65 window)
  • I have a cover scan only of #55 which shows an 'L Miller' 6d stamp on a 9d printed copy (see below). But I also own a 9d copy and this has no cover stamp and a blank indicia (i.e. no L Miller or T&P data) - scans also below. The absence of indicia details means it could be that these copies were solicited by L Miller, not T&P

          5984771c5387d_559dLM6dCoverStampcrop.jpg.bda930564831a27391a4ce495955f05c.jpg     598477833de9e_559dNoTPorLMIndicia-Cover.thumb.jpg.98cf153d6a2c5bf6c6f9ea74bde5d524.jpg5984778692e38_559dNoTPorLMIndicia-Indicia.thumb.jpg.5bedc3a81175fc5f98d6d9c8fc69b78c.jpg

  • So issues 56 to 59 may not exist as pence printed copies, but may exist as cents copies with L Miller cover stamps / indicias

 

One of the benefits of my pence spreadsheet is being able to use it to align titles to see where 'gaps' match up, and this is a good example of where it can help inform a position. So as it stands, my starting position is now that Gunsmoke Western 60-65, Rawhide Kid 18-23 and Two-Gun Kid 56-59 probably do not exist as pence printed copies as they were likely imported by L Miller as cents copies with cover stamps and L Miller indicias.  So my hunt now extends from looking just at pence printed copies to their cents counterparts also to see if they have stamps and variant indicias. This is very hard though as these early editions are extremely uncommon in the UK in any denomination - pence or cents - so progress will be slow!

But I'll keep you all updated if I find anything more to support or undermine the claim.

Chin-chin! :tink:

P.S. I won't tell you what Marwood thinks of all this, as it's unprintable. And besides, I've promised the mods to stop swearing. There's no need at all for 'f this' and 'c that' when a good old 'flippin' or even a well placed 'bloomin Nora' will just as adequately fit the bill  Image result for withnail and i

Edited by Marwood & I
Bloomin Nora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,971 posts

How do the UK pence variants compare in value to their regular US versions, lower?  I have a bunch of ASM pence books as part of a collection I bought, they're part of my collection and for the most part the only copy I have - a placeholder until I find the non-pence book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
5 minutes ago, spreads said:

How do the UK pence variants compare in value to their regular US versions, lower?  I have a bunch of ASM pence books as part of a collection I bought, they're part of my collection and for the most part the only copy I have - a placeholder until I find the non-pence book.

 

Usually lower, often quite a bit lower. Which ones do you have @spreads ? I had a full run of pence ASM's back in the day. Now only 1-17 remain (only?!). You can see them all here, courtesy of the depressed, nay despised John Morlar:

 

I like to think it won't always be so, and there are signs that some collectors are cottoning on, especially with the keys, but as a rule they still tend to command much less than their US counterparts.  When I sold my collection on Ebay, the cents always went higher than the pence.

We live in hope however, for the rightful correction!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,971 posts
1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

 

Usually lower, often quite a bit lower. Which ones do you have @spreads ? I had a full run of pence ASM's back in the day. Now only 1-17 remain (only?!). You can see them all here, courtesy of the depressed, nay despised John Morlar:

 

I like to think it won't always be so, and there are signs that some collectors are cottoning on, especially with the keys, but as a rule they still tend to command much less than their US counterparts.  When I sold my collection on Ebay, the cents always went higher than the pence.

We live in hope however, for the rightful correction!

 

I have a bunch, maybe a dozen or so starting as low as issue 7 (i think) and going up to double digits.  There might be some bronze as well.....I'm happy with them regardless because as I mentioned they're part of my collection and represent a copy of a book I didn't have at all. 

I ask the question on value because it doesn't seem like there's many of these copies out there, in some cases none available at all and I have limited knowledge of ASM silver-age price history.  I just know my first copy of a pence started from buying X-men 100 off a guy with a small collection, I saw it and thought it was a reprint at the time until I did some digging on it.

Edited by spreads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
1 hour ago, spreads said:

I have a bunch, maybe a dozen or so starting as low as issue 7 (i think) and going up to double digits.  There might be some bronze as well.....I'm happy with them regardless because as I mentioned they're part of my collection and represent a copy of a book I didn't have at all. 

I ask the question on value because it doesn't seem like there's many of these copies out there, in some cases none available at all and I have limited knowledge of ASM silver-age price history.  I just know my first copy of a pence started from buying X-men 100 off a guy with a small collection, I saw it and thought it was a reprint at the time until I did some digging on it.

 

Hearing a pence copy being referred to as a reprint would normally lead me to alert Tribal Elders and release hounds and stuff @spreads but I can't afford to be too unkind as, apart from @nesqrick2, you're my only visitor in 800 years of pence rambling :wink:

The early books are indeed getting harder to come by but as you work up the numbers eBay UK has most of them in reasonable supply. I tried to sell my ASM #1 a couple of times - happily unsuccessfully - and found it impossible for the words "but it is a pence copy..." to not rear their heads when the matter of price was discussed.

Anyway, any excuse to post a picture - here's your old X-Men #100 in all it's ten pence glory :cloud9:

100.thumb.jpg.06f2e57023d9d165ffa80e00201ff7fe.jpg

Post some of your pence pictures if you have them spreads - always nice to see them :smile:

And keep hold of them. When you've completed your cents runs you'll be glad to have them sitting there, gently goading you to complete a run of them too! Lists of what exists are available on request.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
5 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

I don't have any early pence ASM's but I do have some Ditko fire & water versions.

Scan_0001.thumb.jpg.ef775d9abddc282da39624fd86da5176.jpg

Scan_0002.thumb.jpg.fd5dd14bf85b11df1a26bec945d2c4c0.jpg

Scan_0003.thumb.jpg.3f78b93e7bbd30346e8a3302f5923947.jpg

Citizens of Planet 9d, welcome! :headbang:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
825 posts
Just now, Marwood & I said:

Citizens of Planet 9d, welcome! :headbang:

 

It's my privilege to be here. :preach:

Actually I've read this thread for ages but mainly thought it was for data gathering and as I had no useful information I shied away. Now I realise you want pics of any old pence I can oblige, have you seen my FF #14? It's a beaut! :cry:

Continuing on the Spidey theme, I momentarily forgot I have more fire for you.

Scan.thumb.jpg.c45d79c713f7d6a18a3205d4769f1cba.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
3 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

 

It's my privilege to be here. :preach:

Actually I've read this thread for ages but mainly thought it was for data gathering and as I had no useful information I shied away. Now I realise you want pics of any old pence I can oblige, have you seen my FF #14? It's a beaut! :cry:

Continuing on the Spidey theme, I momentarily forgot I have more fire for you.

Scan.thumb.jpg.c45d79c713f7d6a18a3205d4769f1cba.jpg

Data gathering only?  Nay and thrice nay!

Anything remotely pencey will find a happy home here Harry (see how many H's I got in there). Just don't talk cents, whatever you do. I don't. 

Yes please to FF 14 and keep it up with the fire and ice books :headbang:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
825 posts
37 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Data gathering only?  Nay and thrice nay!

Anything remotely pencey will find a happy home here Harry (see how many H's I got in there). Just don't talk cents, whatever you do. I don't. 

Yes please to FF 14 and keep it up with the fire and ice books :headbang:

Ok, you asked for it. I have almost run out of themed books but as my sig kinda indicates I can specialise in low grade pence copies, especially when it comes to the FF.

First up is the book that forever changed how Marvels were displayed in the newsagents. In my case it was probably attached to a lawn strimmer first.

Scan_0001.thumb.jpg.767ae19254507450cc64cc9bea9c0b5d.jpg

The book every 60's kid liked to scribble on. "You fool, Molecule Man. You may have power over matter itself but nothing can beat the might of multiple store stamps and the Belligerent Biro!"

Scan_0003.thumb.jpg.cd8b70c6c2bc05681a6733829805ae19.jpg

A couple of much nicer issues (my standards must have been slipping when I bought these).

FF24.thumb.jpg.3a276ba5946076b53469fddaaac1e478.jpg

FF27.thumb.jpg.0d7cc81c012934be4c25170ebd16b91b.jpg

And a copy I managed to pick up for the exorbitant price of £1.50! Now that's the power of the pence.

Scan_0002.thumb.jpg.73e5d101ec82eeb8c20c7a4f5f4a34b0.jpg

 

 

Edited by Harry Lime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
4 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

Ok, you asked for it. I have almost run out of themed books but as my sig kinda indicates I can specialise in low grade pence copies, especially when it comes to the FF.

First up is the book that forever changed how Marvels were displayed in the newsagents. In my case it was probably attached to a lawn strimmer first.

Scan_0001.thumb.jpg.767ae19254507450cc64cc9bea9c0b5d.jpg

The book every 60's kid liked to scribble on. "You fool, Molecule Man. You may have power over matter itself but nothing can beat the might of multiple store stamps and the Belligerent Biro!"

Scan_0003.thumb.jpg.cd8b70c6c2bc05681a6733829805ae19.jpg

A couple of much nicer issues (my standards must have been slipping when I bought these).

FF24.thumb.jpg.3a276ba5946076b53469fddaaac1e478.jpg

FF27.thumb.jpg.0d7cc81c012934be4c25170ebd16b91b.jpg

And a copy I managed to pick up for the exorbitant price of £1.50! Now that's the power of the pence.

Scan_0002.thumb.jpg.73e5d101ec82eeb8c20c7a4f5f4a34b0.jpg

Scan_0001.jpg

Fabulous! You're my kind of guy Harry. Beaten up pence copies cannot be beaten!

hm

Having been beaten that is. You know what I mean. 

I have another Gunsmoke Western on the way hopefully, and that will make your FF 14 look positively gem mint. Maybe we should have a competition for most beaten up pence copy.....

Stick around Harry! :headbang:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,079 posts

Hey, Marwood&I -- I haven't been able to find any Bronze Age pence variants of Kid Colt or Rawhide Kid, but they do exist, right? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
19 hours ago, MisterX said:

Hey, Marwood&I -- I haven't been able to find any Bronze Age pence variants of Kid Colt or Rawhide Kid, but they do exist, right? 

Afternoon @MisterX !

I've consulted the oracle and can advise as follows:

Kid Colt Outlaw - The current confirmed issue number range for pence printed copies is 91, 96-101, 103-104, 106-107, 109-119, 124-129, 133-137.  So no Bronze Age pence printed copies I'm afraid, with #137 being dated November 1967 :frown:

137.thumb.jpg.6fabeb1b77c52202903440d62d0fa95b.jpg

 

Rawhide Kid - Here the current confirmed pence printed issue number range is 17, 24, 26-42, 48-54, 56-60 and 151. The #60 is dated October 1967 so there is only one Bronze Age book alas, #151 (May 1979). Don't ask me why they skipped 90 issues and then decided to make a pence copy of the last issue in the title. Pence history is littered with oddities like that :insane::

151.jpg.c5b8daf3ddfe27ef6ddba90f4469cee7.jpg

 

If you think you've seen them on your travels, chances are they were Thorpe & Porter stamped copies. But I'm always delighted to be proven wrong, as this means more pence books. 

Thanks for dropping by pardner! :headbang:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
14 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

Wow ! early FF pence variants i had never seen before (thumbsu

Cool aren't they Craig. Got any favourites? I've got 3,002 pictures....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,584 posts

Yeah FF #1 or #2 because those are the only 10 cent issues so was the pence 8d instead of 9d ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
48 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

Yeah FF #1 or #2 because those are the only 10 cent issues so was the pence 8d instead of 9d ?

 Nay. The first pence books were all 9d:

Capture.PNG.cf6c729999141de99e67c962087a80e4.PNG

 

1.thumb.jpg.9095f90c167c1e20a6855c7671aa59b4.jpg

2.thumb.jpg.a5fd3886ff907c03c02e315a4e382cfe.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,584 posts
3 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

 Nay. The first pence books were all 9d:

Capture.PNG.cf6c729999141de99e67c962087a80e4.PNG

 

1.thumb.jpg.9095f90c167c1e20a6855c7671aa59b4.jpg

2.thumb.jpg.a5fd3886ff907c03c02e315a4e382cfe.jpg

Nice ! i wish they were yours !!

FF #1  -   5.0

FF#2   -   4.5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts
11 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

Nice ! i wish they were yours !!

FF #1  -   5.0

FF#2   -   4.5

:golfclap: 

5986f2ba14689_lf(1).jpg.c98adced9d77378656615cb10bd4132c.jpglf.jpg.984a7bd52017059986583104085740cb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,760 posts

Found this tidy little summary of Amazing Spidey pence books in my old records just now while answering a Canadian price variant question elsewhere:

asm.PNG.f3c9521e3ddb3b28afdca24ceb46a9a4.PNG

I remember having the chance to snag an Amazing Fantasy #15 pence copy for £850 at the London Fair many years back (my copy is a cents). I ummed and ahhed and didn't go for it, foolishly (in hindsight) believing a better copy would be on the horizon. What a silly Billy..... I'd have loved to have shared a copy here in this thread. Of all the people in the world who should own a pence AF15 I'm one of them. And I don't. 

Marwood doesn't either.

Bugger :sorry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
17 17