Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[kav]

59 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

I always wonder, with the numbers so dire, who buys all that carp out of previews?  Or maybe most of it is solicited and never produced? 

I usually crack up over those soft-porn comics with 10 different variant covers with different outfits and different states of undress.  Sadly, that garbage is probably what sells.

Notti & Nyce!

[drotto]

I also learned something this week about the variant cover sales differences between DC and Marvel.  My LCS owner said on initial order DC allows him to order any cover at whatever ratio he wants.  He usually orders 50/50 for two covers but will change that if he feels one cover is going to be hot.  Technically one cover is considered the main and the other the variant with DC.  If he needs to re-order he can only re-order the number one cover. So DC gives him a lot of leway on the initial order.  Marvel is all the incentive cover game, which he hates. So Marvel is also angering the owners who are trying to keep their orders tight and therfor profits up.

[FutureFlash]

6 hours ago, Bookery said:

All print media is dying off... and even faster than I projected.  After 33 years, we are now closing out our used bookstore division.  With about 20,000 volumes in stock, we were lucky to sell 20-30 books per week.  Values on all but the most famous first editions are falling fast.  I predicted awhile back that one of the big 2 comic companies would actually cease producing paper comics (at least in pamphlet form) within 10 years.  I'm thinking now it might be more like 5.  90% of the generation coming up does not read anything they don't absolutely have to... and the other 10% get their stuff digitally.  Collectibles with very strong graphics are hanging in there, whether its comics, pulps, magazines, paperbacks... but value based on content (aside from 1st appearance, 1st book "keys" etc.), is definitely subsiding.

Sorry to hear about your bookstore closing. In our area we had 7 Half Price Books stores now down to 6, after closing one location this Spring. I chalked it up to it was one of the smaller ones and located fairly close to two other stores, because the four that I normally go to are quite busy. Maybe it was more due to low sales than location?

As for comics, I'm not sure we will see one of the Big 2 stop publishing floppies in the next 10, maybe in 20? I do think one of the smaller comic companies could be done within the next 10 or so. They don't have big mega corporations backing them up. Take D&D for example, now owned by Hasbro, the D&D line profits are so small they don't even show up on the annual report. Hasbro pretty much bought Wizards of the Coast for Magic The Gathering and got D&D as a bonus. Hasbro amazingly just lets the D&D line do its own thing for the most part, which most people thought it was the beginning of the end when Wizards of the Coast was purchased. I think D&D is just an IP farm for them. Much like comics are for Disney and WB, if they make a little money great, if they lose a bit, it doesn't really impact the corporate bottom line.

[kav]

The solution is simple:  bring back comics aimed at kids.  The SA books can still be enjoyed by adults.  

[kav]

7 hours ago, kav said:

Yep he tried to shove 'what he thought people should read' down people's throats instead of the time honored tradition of giving people what they want. 

-And when people didn't like it he blamed them for not being 'open' to 'diversity'.  

[CAHokie]

We have a comic book store and a 1/2 off books on the same block, opposite sides of street. The comic book store is closing and the 1/2 Off is moving to another city because the rent was raised from $4,000 a month in 2011 to 6,700 this year with an increase next year that would be 8,500 a month! I will miss them both

For me, I read comics to escape the real world.  The more agendas that entered the comics I read with an increasing frequency the less I want to read them...... I am slowly cancelling what used to be 20 titles a month between the various companies.

[Fan Boy]

1 minute ago, kav said:

-And when people didn't like it he blamed them for not being 'open' to 'diversity'.  

 How can he blame us for not being 'open' to 'diversity'? It's obviously he hasn't asked us what we want in comic books. I mean, I haven't seen any (new) Marvel comic book I want to buy for many many months at the LCS.

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Fan Boy said:

 How can he blame us for not being 'open' to 'diversity'? It's obviously he hasn't asked us what we want in comic books. I mean, I haven't seen any (new) Marvel comic book I want to buy for many many months at the LCS.

poor sales of his books he said was our 'fault'.

[lizards2]

5 minutes ago, Fan Boy said:

24 minutes ago, kav said:

-And when people didn't like it he blamed them for not being 'open' to 'diversity'.  

 How can he blame us for not being 'open' to 'diversity'? It's obviously he hasn't asked us what we want in comic books. I mean, I haven't seen any (new) Marvel comic book I want to buy for many many months at the LCS.

You'll get what we think you ought to see and hear, and you better like it.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You'll get what we think you ought to see and hear, and you better like it.

 

[rjrjr]

3 hours ago, kav said:

The solution is simple:  bring back comics aimed at kids.  The SA books can still be enjoyed by adults.  

Except most kids won't be interested even if you gave them the comics for free.  Sounds like another money losing venture for the publishers to pursue though.

Rather than worry about kids who are not going to buy these things, I suggest Marvel and DC just concentrate on creating good comic books.  Not collectibles (i.e. variants), which seems to be their bread and butter right now.  If they made good comics, everyone, adults and children, would have something to look forward to.

[kav]

1 minute ago, rjrjr said:

Except most kids won't be interested even if you gave them the comics for free.  Sounds like another money losing venture for the publishers to pursue though.

Rather than worry about kids who are not going to buy these things, I suggest Marvel and DC just concentrate on creating good comic books.  Not collectibles (i.e. variants), which seems to be their bread and butter right now.  If they made good comics, everyone, adults and children, would have something to look forward to.

We dont know if kids will be interested because they arent doing it.  We do know that when they wrote comics for kids, kids bought them like crazy and so did adults.  

[rjrjr]

1 minute ago, kav said:

We dont know if kids will be interested because they arent doing it.  We do know that when they wrote comics for kids, kids bought them like crazy and so did adults.  

I know because I have kids.  They are not interested and I'm not just talking about mine. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by rjrjr

[kav]

Just now, rjrjr said:

I know because I have kids.  They are not interested and I'm not just talking about mine. 

Your kids have not been exposed to superhero comics written today, for kids, like we were in the 60s and 70s.

[rjrjr]

I wrote a blog a few days back which shows the dire condition Marvel (and the industry) is in right now by examining Marvel's tell selling ongoing title for the past 3 years, Star Wars:

http://swcomiccollector.blogspot.com/2017/09/star-wars-continues-to-outshine-in.html

In a nutshell, Star Wars is selling roughly half of what it sold in 2015, and it is still Marvel's top selling ongoing title.  That isn't good when you consider the average estimated initial sales is just over 72,000 this year.  A mere 72,000 units sold is all it takes to be Marvel's top selling ongoing title!

Now, this may change with Marvel's Legacy event.

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by rjrjr

[rjrjr]

14 minutes ago, kav said:

Your kids have not been exposed to superhero comics written today, for kids, like we were in the 60s and 70s.

So, if we fire all the current editors and creators at Marvel/DC and hire back only living editors and creators from the 60s and 70s, go back to each publisher just having 30-40 titles max, eliminate all but  the top 10 comic publishers, drop the price on comic books, find a way to make old fashioned newsprint again even though it is more expensive than the current paper used, force retailers to carry comics despite them being money losing items, outlaw video games, go back to just 10 channels on television, and shutdown the Internet, we just might have a chance to get kids interested again.  I'm guessing none of these things is going to happen. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by rjrjr

[kav]

1 minute ago, rjrjr said:

So, if we fire all the current editors and creators at Marvel/DC and hire back any living editor and creator from the 60s and 70s, go back to each publisher just having 30-40 titles max, eliminate all but  the top 10 comic publishers, drop the price on comic books, find a way to make old fashioned newsprint again even though it is more expensive than the current paper used, force retailers to carry comics despite them being money losing items, outlaw video games, go back to just 10 channels on television, and shutdown the Internet, we just might have a chance to get kids interested again.  I'm guessing none of these things is going to happen. 

I'm guessing it won't.  

[VintageComics]

9 hours ago, drotto said:

I also learned something this week about the variant cover sales differences between DC and Marvel.  My LCS owner said on initial order DC allows him to order any cover at whatever ratio he wants.  He usually orders 50/50 for two covers but will change that if he feels one cover is going to be hot.  Technically one cover is considered the main and the other the variant with DC.  If he needs to re-order he can only re-order the number one cover. So DC gives him a lot of leway on the initial order.  Marvel is all the incentive cover game, which he hates. So Marvel is also angering the owners who are trying to keep their orders tight and therfor profits up.

I didn't read the details but there was recently a huge online protest by comic book stores for the Marvel variant ordering protest. Stores actually refused to carry them in protest from what I understood.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

6 hours ago, rjrjr said:

So, if we fire all the current editors and creators at Marvel/DC and hire back only living editors and creators from the 60s and 70s, go back to each publisher just having 30-40 titles max, eliminate all but  the top 10 comic publishers, drop the price on comic books, find a way to make old fashioned newsprint again even though it is more expensive than the current paper used, force retailers to carry comics despite them being money losing items, outlaw video games, go back to just 10 channels on television, and shutdown the Internet, we just might have a chance to get kids interested again.  I'm guessing none of these things is going to happen. 

The problem was/is beyond them getting kids to read the comics again. The bigger problem is they had a loyal fanbase that they turned off by trying to get new modern so called hip progressive readers. This is were they screwed the pooch.They didn't realize the new modern so called hip progressive readers are not as loyal and way more fickle than their old time loyal readers.  Now they want the old-time readers back,but found out the loyal fans found other better entertainment for their value and moved on.

I think Marvel and DC will both downsize in the future as the numbers don't look good. I would also expect new leadership at Marvel soon. Disney is known for making changes.

 

[1Cool]

7 hours ago, kav said:

We dont know if kids will be interested because they arent doing it.  We do know that when they wrote comics for kids, kids bought them like crazy and so did adults.  

Different world back then.  Let's consider "kids" to be from 8 - 13 year olds which is probably when most of us started reading books or at least were introduced to comics.  Are you saying most comics today (especially book published by the big 2) would not be understood by an 11 year old?  Ever tried to follow some of the anime shows or tried to watch a couple teens playing Magic - they are able to understand and enjoy a whole lot more then you are giving them credit for. 

Comic book sales are in a dive not because of a lack of kids reading books since it's been years since kids were anything but a blimp in the readership of books.  Drop in sales can only be attributed to adults deciding they do not enjoy the books anymore and don't care about maintaining their complete set any longer.