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Avengers: Endgame (2019)
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Started by Bosco685,

2,252 posts in this topic

Turtle

Turtle

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Agree to disagree. Certainly realistic from my experience (as someone who has lost a lot - yet less than those in the fictional MCU).

Hawkeye is a 'hero'. Kinda how Han and Leia went back to what they're good at - Barton went back to what he's good at - except he went to an extreme. Ronin was/is more anti-hero than hero. The opinion that the rest of mankind can cope by being a vigilante? I'm sorry, but, that's just wildly impossible.

I'm definitely not saying that everyone would likely become a vigilante...I'm just saying that at 5+ years out, the majority of the population won't be crying in front of strangers on a regular basis.  Clearly I wasn't suggesting that everyone would turn into a masked crime-fighter.  :screwy:

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Turtle

Turtle

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On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 7:41 AM, Gaard said:

I have no idea why I'm wondering this, but it crossed my mind last night. (shrug)

When I was actively reading comics, it was back in the 60s & 70s. I haven't read anything put out by Marvel in a couple of decades, but when I was a kid (and at the height of my comic reading), Spidey and DD had kind of a "I know your secret" relationship. Spidey and Johnny Storm also had a kind of a friendship. The thing is, I don't remember Spidey and Tony Stark ever having a friendship of any kind. The way Marvel likes to retcon stuff, though, I wouldn't be surprised if things are vastly different these days as opposed to back then.

So is the relationship between Spidey and Iron Man anything close to the way it was portrayed in the movies?

Maybe there's more history than I'm aware of, but I did follow the New Avengers from 2005 (pre-Civil War).  By this point, Spider-man was 30 and had been Spidey for 15 years. 

In the first issue, there's a breakout at the Raft and a number of heroes respond to try to contain the villains.  This includes Luke Cage, Sentry, and Spider-man.  After the initial outbreak, Iron Man and Cap decide to form a New Avengers team that lists most of the heroes who helped contain the breakout among its roster.  I believe this is one the first time that Spidey and Iron man spend any serious time together. 

Not long after, the Civil War breaks out and the New Avengers split up.  Spider-man famously takes Iron Man's side, which leads Iron Man to create the Iron Spider suit for Peter.  Not long after, he Peter unmasks himself at a press conference at Iron Man's suggestion in a show of support for the Superhuman Registration Act (SHRA).  This puts Aunt May and MJ in danger, so all 3 of them move into Stark Tower for security. 

Ultimately, Peter has a change of heart and decides to reject the Iron Spider suit and defect to Captain America's Anti-SHRA cause.  At this point, Peter isn't a huge fan of Tony, but that really ramps up when Peter finds out that Tony used the Iron Spider suit to study Peter's Spider-sense and integrate a way to bypass it into his own armor.  At some point after that, Iron Man attempts to apprehend Spider-man, which results in this:

2134904629_Webbedup.jpg.fb0f72b1a6c4f0b66141dd6595f587a2.jpg

At that point in their history, they weren't on the best of terms.  Of course, this was years before Spidey was introduced in the MCU, so who knows how their relationship is now. 

 

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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51 minutes ago, Turtle said:

I'm definitely not saying that everyone would likely become a vigilante...I'm just saying that at 5+ years out, the majority of the population won't be crying in front of strangers on a regular basis.  Clearly I wasn't suggesting that everyone would turn into a masked crime-fighter.  :screwy:

At the rate of loss, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong.

Let's pretend you had a strong friend that was your rock. Whenever you had a problem - they were there to settle you. Well, now, not only have you lost due to Thanos, but so have they. When your rock becomes a roll of toilet paper, what do you do? What about their "rock"?

It's a domino effect, and it would take longer than 5 years for the world to return to some form of normalcy after losing 3.5+ billion people.

My point was that Barton is a particularly 'strong' character - mentally and emotionally - and he resorted to becoming a murdering vigilante. That's what happened to a strong character in the MCU.

There's also no storytelling logic for the writers or directors to make out the Earth to be a paradise after genocide. They made a writing choice that Thanos is "right" with their dialogue about Gamora's home in Infinity War. They were making the opposite point about The Avengers being right in Endgame.

2c

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Gaard

Gaard

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2 hours ago, Turtle said:

Maybe there's more history than I'm aware of, but I did follow the New Avengers from 2005 (pre-Civil War).  By this point, Spider-man was 30 and had been Spidey for 15 years. 

In the first issue, there's a breakout at the Raft and a number of heroes respond to try to contain the villains.  This includes Luke Cage, Sentry, and Spider-man.  After the initial outbreak, Iron Man and Cap decide to form a New Avengers team that lists most of the heroes who helped contain the breakout among its roster.  I believe this is one the first time that Spidey and Iron man spend any serious time together. 

Not long after, the Civil War breaks out and the New Avengers split up.  Spider-man famously takes Iron Man's side, which leads Iron Man to create the Iron Spider suit for Peter.  Not long after, he Peter unmasks himself at a press conference at Iron Man's suggestion in a show of support for the Superhuman Registration Act (SHRA).  This puts Aunt May and MJ in danger, so all 3 of them move into Stark Tower for security. 

Ultimately, Peter has a change of heart and decides to reject the Iron Spider suit and defect to Captain America's Anti-SHRA cause.  At this point, Peter isn't a huge fan of Tony, but that really ramps up when Peter finds out that Tony used the Iron Spider suit to study Peter's Spider-sense and integrate a way to bypass it into his own armor.  At some point after that, Iron Man attempts to apprehend Spider-man, which results in this:

2134904629_Webbedup.jpg.fb0f72b1a6c4f0b66141dd6595f587a2.jpg

At that point in their history, they weren't on the best of terms.  Of course, this was years before Spidey was introduced in the MCU, so who knows how their relationship is now. 

 

Wow. That's some history lesson. Impressive on your part. 

 

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Turtle

Turtle

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2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

At the rate of loss, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong.

You can think I'm wrong, which is a perfectly valid position to take.  But in the absence of a morbid experiment on a grand scale in a modern setting with results close to what the movie shows, you can't say that I'm unequivocally wrong.  I think humans and society at large are more resilient than you think they are.  It's fine.  Agree to disagree.  :foryou:

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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35 minutes ago, Turtle said:

You can think I'm wrong, which is a perfectly valid position to take.  But in the absence of a morbid experiment on a grand scale in a modern setting with results close to what the movie shows, you can't say that I'm unequivocally wrong.  I think humans and society at large are more resilient than you think they are.  It's fine.  Agree to disagree.  :foryou:

It's almost like you haven't even read the expected recovery time for the ongoing pandemic... Which is literally nothing compared to the unanticipated decimation of half the world... Whatever floats your boat.

The writers of the movie have it more right than you do. 2c

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Comicopolis

Comicopolis

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Anyone seen the alternate Black Widow death which is online? I can see why they didn't go with it in the final cut but I think it's much more emotional and better all round.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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1 minute ago, Comicopolis said:

Anyone seen the alternate Black Widow death which is online? I can see why they didn't go with it in the final cut but I think it's much more emotional and better all round.

The one where she sacrifices herself to save Clint in-battle?

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Comicopolis

Comicopolis

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3 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

The one where she sacrifices herself to save Clint in-battle?

I saw it more of her sacrificing herself because she sees Thanos approaching.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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13 hours ago, Comicopolis said:

I saw it more of her sacrificing herself because she sees Thanos approaching.

I think that the end-thought was: How would Ronin survive a blitzkrieg by Thanos after he receives the Soul Stone?

They also obviously wanted to mirror the scene from Infinity War - thematically. I think they made the correct choice.

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Comicopolis

Comicopolis

Posted
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3 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I think that the end-thought was: How would Ronin survive a blitzkrieg by Thanos after he receives the Soul Stone?

They also obviously wanted to mirror the scene from Infinity War - thematically. I think they made the correct choice.

I agree with both points.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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Deadline_Endgame.PNG.b34397e9c43aebf57991bc9ccb50635a.PNG

Although the figures used are on the low side for Production Budget (rumored to be $400M) and the Marketing Budget is set at an MCU solo film, there is no disputing how massive this film went over. But it is very biased to tweak the numbers like that. Especially conveying the most massive film ever having a marketing budget close to the size of Jumanji.

Marketing_Budget.png.c8a221846b9b45ef576438ed1c2c7303.png

 

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valiantman

valiantman

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5 minutes ago, Gaard said:

With the death of Tony, maybe Pepper & Happy will finally get hitched.

With the death of Tony, Pepper is free to start a multi-million dollar pseudoscience company for jade eggs and nether-region steamers.

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