POLL: how would BA12 cover do at heritage? 2 2

[tfish]

Just now, Bronty said:

But its good for ya!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_and_health

I get not wanting to pay too much or worse yet get outbid, and I get that there's only so much you'd want to say publicly, but at the end of the day, you're still interested in it, I presume?

 

you offering?

[Bronty]

18 minutes ago, tfish said:

you offering?

I can see where this is going    Good luck finding it

Edited May 23, 2017 by Bronty

[buyatari]

On 5/23/2017 at 4:54 AM, ESeffinga said:

Wondering, have there been many other characters that have jumped INTO the comics from other media, and then gone on to be primarily a comic book character, and then gone on to be really well known? I'm struggling to think of any. I'm sure there have to be some.

If so, would those first appearances trigger any kind of premium in the comics or comic OA, considering their origins?

 

 

Some characters existed in TV shows , movies and books before becoming comics.  Conan , Tarzan . Star Wars, Charlie Brown , many Disney characters but this is the oldest example that I could think of.

Thor - Altuna Stone 11th Century

[ESeffinga]

Hahaha. Touché!

I dare say I'd never have thought MOST folks would think of the comic character when they think of Thor.

I don't at least. Is that really what people in the real world think of when they think of Thor? Maybe now with the movies, but I'd argue that fame was because of the movies rather than the comics.

Genuinely curious.

[delekkerste]

49 minutes ago, buyatari said:

 

Some characters existed in TV shows , movies and books before becoming comics.  Conan , Tarzan . Star Wars, Charlie Brown , many Disney characters but this is the oldest example that I could think of.

Thor - Altuna Stone 11th Century

Charlie Brown was in TV/movies/books before he appeared in that comic strip that pre-dated Peanuts? 

[SquareChaos]

I believe Jimmy Olsen - as that specifically named character - was first introduced on the Superman radio show prior to being used in the comics.

[PhilipB2k17]

Comic Connect has the first Drax appearance (the Starlin splash from Iron man 55) in their most recent auction. I'm predicting $50,000 for that. 

I'd say the Harley Quinn BA12 cover would go in the $250,000 range. Then again, is it comparable to the Hulk 180 Wolverine Cameo? It's also a cover. So, it wouldn't shock me if it went up into the half million range.

[PhilipB2k17]

Harley Quinn (for better or worse) has popular culture currency far outside of comic books. She could, right now, literally carry a solo tentpole big budget movie, let alone all the Comic books she anchors. X-23 does not, her appearance in Logan notwithstanding. 

BA12 cover would go for an insane amount of money, because the universe of collectors for that piece of artwork goes well outside of comic book and even comic book OA collectors. It is a prestige piece, and consequently will command the attention of the big hitters in the OA collector community. Indeed, it is already probably in the underground private OA art market between millionaires and billionaires that never sees the light of day.

 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 5/19/2017 at 8:20 PM, delekkerste said:

If BA12 is a $200K+ cover, or even a $160K cover, how much is NM98? Or TWD 1?  Because surely either of those dwarfs BA12 in every conceivable category.  And yet I doubt many think of those as being $200K, let alone much higher than that, types of items. Or, at least not before yesterday... 

It's one thing for a slightly younger generation of collectors to value more Modern pieces higher than some of the older, classic material. But, when it comes down to it, I don't see any of them writing $200K+ checks to Heritage for something like BA12. Even now, it's a late 40-something usual suspect with the highest theoretical public bid.  And, just as he wasn't willing to go to 72K for NYX 3, I don't think you'll get him up to double that amount for BA12. Heck, he could probably get the first Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn Ditko page for that amount...or maybe even the first Blade cover. 

I agree with you on NM 98. Not on the Walking Dead #1 cover. 

I suspect that the BA12 cover is already in the "will likely never come up for auction" category for really prestige pieces, that get traded in the underground high end OA market. Harley Quinn is a much bigger deal in popular culture than Deadpool. I think Walking Dead #1 would probably, right now, command that price, but paying that would also be a mistake because once that show ends, I doubt that the value of that page will stay that sky high. Then again, it is one of the most iconic comic book covers out there at this point.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:47 AM, Claudio said:

Didn't he just say he was interested in it "BIGLY"?  I doubt "BIGLY" means "Less than I was prepared to offer 3 years ago"

"Bigly?" So, Donald Trump collects original comic book art?

[SquareChaos]

I don't get why everyone thinks HQ is such a huge cultural phenomenon - makes me wonder if I'm the one out of touch 

[PhilipB2k17]

2 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I don't get why everyone thinks HQ is such a huge cultural phenomenon - makes me wonder if I'm the one out of touch 

Do you have daughters? Do you attend Cons? She is the single most popular female character in comics and the genre community.  (If the Wonder Woman film is a big hit, though, that may change) And, her extra-sexualization in Suicide Squad has ramped her up into the stratosphere. 

[SquareChaos]

Just now, PhilipB2k17 said:

Do you have daughters? Do you attend Cons? She is the single most popular female character in comics and the genre community.  (If the Wonder Woman film is a big hit, though, that may change) And, her extra-sexualization in Suicide Squad has ramped her up into the stratosphere. 

I don't have daughters. I have a good friend who has two daughters, but I'm pretty sure their mother would find Harley too... some adjective or other of your choice... for their current age.

 

Time will tell if she is this massive cultural phenomenon - I personally think not. I think if they made a Harley Quinn movie it has a better than even chance of flopping pretty hard, but this is all entirely speculation on my part.

[delekkerste]

1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

I don't get why everyone thinks HQ is such a huge cultural phenomenon - makes me wonder if I'm the one out of touch 

You're not out of touch.  Outside of our little comic world bubble, she is not a household name contrary to what some here believe.  My parents certainly have no idea who she is.  I doubt my sister who lives in Hollywood does.  I doubt more than a small minority of my neighbors here in cosmopolitan New York City do.  And why would they?  Would they have seen the cartoon?  Read her comic books?  Gone to a comic convention?  Seen Suicide Squad and loved it so much that they remembered the characters' names?  "What was Will Smith's character's name?  Dead...Deadpool? Walking Dead?  And that Wolf of Wall Street actress she played...Harley?  Hurley?"  

 

4 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Do you have daughters? Do you attend Cons? She is the single most popular female character in comics and the genre community.  (If the Wonder Woman film is a big hit, though, that may change) And, her extra-sexualization in Suicide Squad has ramped her up into the stratosphere. 

To justify the kind of  prices people are talking about, a character has to be bigger than "the genre community".  If Wolverine was just big in "the genre community", the Hulk #180 page wouldn't have fetched $657K.  To say that Harley is a much bigger deal in pop culture than Deadpool is simply untrue.  What it means is that YOU like Harley better and maybe you have a daughter who likes Harley better.  Even in the genre community, at cons, you can't say that there aren't a f-ton of Deadpool cosplayers at every show - he may be the most popular costume out there!  

Me, I don't even like Deadpool!  Like Venom, I think he's a sophomoric character created in a period of superhero comics that I don't particularly look back at with much fondness.  However, I am pretty good at taking off my comic book hobby glasses and being able to dispassionately look at the facts.  And the facts are that, worldwide, there are probably millions, if not tens of millions, of more people who will know Deadpool vs. Harley Quinn because he was the titular hero in a global blockbuster film and Harley was not - the movie was Suicide Squad, it sucked, and Harley was one character out of many.    

[PhilipB2k17]

1 minute ago, delekkerste said:

You're not out of touch.  Outside of our little comic world bubble, she is not a household name contrary to what some here believe.  My parents certainly have no idea who she is.  I doubt my sister who lives in Hollywood does.  I doubt more than a small minority of my neighbors here in cosmopolitan New York City do.  And why would they?  Would they have seen the cartoon?  Read her comic books?  Gone to a comic convention?  Seen Suicide Squad and loved it so much that they remembered the characters' names?  "What was Will Smith's character's name?  Dead...Deadpool? Walking Dead?  And that Wolf of Wall Street actress she played...Harley?  Hurley?"  

 

To justify the kind of  prices people are talking about, a character has to be bigger than "the genre community".  If Wolverine was just big in "the genre community", the Hulk #180 page wouldn't have fetched $657K.  To say that Harley is a much bigger deal in pop culture than Deadpool is simply untrue.  What it means is that YOU like Harley better and maybe you have a daughter who likes Harley better.  Even in the genre community, at cons, you can't say that there aren't a f-ton of Deadpool cosplayers at every show - he may be the most popular costume out there!  

Me, I don't even like Deadpool!  Like Venom, I think he's a sophomoric character created in a period of superhero comics that I don't particularly look back at with much fondness.  However, I am pretty good at taking off my comic book hobby glasses and being able to dispassionately look at the facts.  And the facts are that, worldwide, there are probably millions, if not tens of millions, of more people who will know Deadpool vs. Harley Quinn because he was the titular hero in a global blockbuster film and Harley was not - the movie was Suicide Squad, it sucked, and Harley was one character out of many.    

I respect that folks may not think HQ is a hot pop culture phenomenon, but have you seen who little girls and tweens dress up as for Halloween? Or College women for that matter? Harley is right up there at the top. 

[delekkerste]

45 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Comic Connect has the first Drax appearance (the Starlin splash from Iron man 55) in their most recent auction. I'm predicting $50,000 for that. 

I'd say the Harley Quinn BA12 cover would go in the $250,000 range. Then again, is it comparable to the Hulk 180 Wolverine Cameo? It's also a cover. So, it wouldn't shock me if it went up into the half million range.

Please, please, please let this cover come to auction...  

 

37 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Harley Quinn (for better or worse) has popular culture currency far outside of comic books. She could, right now, literally carry a solo tentpole big budget movie, let alone all the Comic books she anchors. X-23 does not, her appearance in Logan notwithstanding. 

BA12 cover would go for an insane amount of money, because the universe of collectors for that piece of artwork goes well outside of comic book and even comic book OA collectors. It is a prestige piece, and consequently will command the attention of the big hitters in the OA collector community. Indeed, it is already probably in the underground private OA art market between millionaires and billionaires that never sees the light of day.

 

Why would anyone outside of the comic/OA hobby want to pay $250-$500K for this piece?  People often talk about pieces transcending the hobby, like the Hulk #180 page, and, invariably, they always end up in the hands of a usual suspect.  And this piece has a lot less going for it than most of those other pieces that the hopeful deemed to be transcendent... 

Underground private OA art market between millionaires and billionaires?  People do realize that Oleg is a fictional character, right??

Edited May 24, 2017 by delekkerste

[PhilipB2k17]

1 minute ago, delekkerste said:

Please, please, please let this cover come to auction...  

 

C'mon - why would anyone outside of the comic/OA hobby want to pay $250-$500K for this piece?  People often talk about pieces transcending the hobby, like the Hulk #180 page, and, invariably, they always end up in the hands of a usual suspect.

Underground private OA art market between millionaires and billionaires?  OK, I'm getting off this crazy train... 

Dude, seriously. You know lots of high end pieces change hands without ever coming up for auction.

[Pete Marino]

So, here's a little facts to add into the discussion.  I think you guys are really underselling the popularity of this character.

 

2016 top search results on google entertainment:

1. Deadpool
2. Suicide Squad
3. The Revenant
4. Captain America Civil War
5. Batman v Superman
6. Doctor Strange
7. Finding Dory
8. Zootopia
9. The Conjuring 2
10. Hacksaw Ridge

So, maybe Harley isn't quite deadpool yet, but she's a close 2nd and (my opinion only) she has a lot of growth left.  I'd say about 80% of the interest in Suicide Squad was Joker / Harley.  The rest were window dressing.

(I thought it was a horrible movie, couldn't get through it, but regardless, a lot of people liked it)

https://www.lifewire.com/g00/top-google-searches-4120590?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

1. Harley Quinn

2. Star Wars

3. Superhero

4. Pirate

5. Batman

6. Minnie Mouse

7. Witch

8. Minions

9. Joker

10. Wonder Woman

VIA CNN 2015, Harley was the most popular Halloween costume:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/28/living/popular-halloween-costume-harley-quinn-feat/

 

not going to paste another list, but here's her at the top of the 2016 list as well:

 

http://fortune.com/2016/10/25/halloween-costumes-google-trends/

Edited May 24, 2017 by Pete Marino

[SquareChaos]

7 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

So, here's a little facts to add into the discussion.  I think you guys are really underselling the popularity of this character.

 

2016 top search results on google entertainment:

1. Deadpool
2. Suicide Squad
3. The Revenant
4. Captain America Civil War
5. Batman v Superman
6. Doctor Strange
7. Finding Dory
8. Zootopia
9. The Conjuring 2
10. Hacksaw Ridge

So, maybe Harley isn't quite deadpool yet, but she's a close 2nd and (my opinion only) she has a lot of growth left.  I'd say about 80% of the interest in Suicide Squad was Joker / Harley.  The rest were window dressing.

(I thought it was a horrible movie, couldn't get through it, but regardless, a lot of people liked it)

https://www.lifewire.com/g00/top-google-searches-4120590?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

1. Harley Quinn

2. Star Wars

3. Superhero

4. Pirate

5. Batman

6. Minnie Mouse

7. Witch

8. Minions

9. Joker

10. Wonder Woman

VIA CNN 2015, Harley was the most popular Halloween costume:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/28/living/popular-halloween-costume-harley-quinn-feat/

 

not going to paste another list, but here's her at the top of the 2016 list as well:

 

http://fortune.com/2016/10/25/halloween-costumes-google-trends/

So the character's actual name didn't make any of these lists? 

As far as I can tell, the only reason she is popular is because of the way she's dressed. In Suicide Squad, she is basically a vapid bimbo that requires rescue - pretty hard to build a cultural icon out of that.

[delekkerste]

17 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

So, here's a little facts to add into the discussion.

 

2016 top search results on google entertainment:

1. Deadpool
2. Suicide Squad
3. The Revenant
4. Captain America Civil War
5. Batman v Superman
6. Doctor Strange
7. Finding Dory
8. Zootopia
9. The Conjuring 2
10. Hacksaw Ridge

So, maybe Harley isn't quite deadpool yet, but she's a close 2nd and (my opinion only) she has a lot of growth left.  I'd say about 80% of the interest in Suicide Squad was Joker / Harley.  The rest were window dressing.

(I thought it was a horrible movie, couldn't get through it, but regardless, a lot of people liked it)

https://www.lifewire.com/g00/top-google-searches-4120590?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

The star of the Suicide Squad movie was window dressing?  I think Will Smith would beg to differ!

I think we need be careful about conflating Suicide Squad with Harley Quinn.  Few outside of the comic community had any idea about what Suicide Squad was about.  So, a tentpole movie comes out starring Will Smith and the hot chick from Wolf of Wall Street?  Of course people are going to Google it.  Does it mean that it's all (or 80%) about Harley Quinn?  Not to me it doesn't.  Not that Harley isn't big.  She is.  But not Deadpool big.  Deadpool was the 7th most popular Google search overall for 2016.  At his peak in 2016 vs. Harley's peak in 2016, he got 4x as many searches as Harley did (looking at Google Trends - excluding generic Suicide Squad results).  It's as I've been saying:  if you are the titular character of a well-received blockbuster movie, your Q rating will simply be much higher than if you were a supporting, non-titular character in a movie that was widely panned.

Edited May 24, 2017 by delekkerste