Hierarchy of Golden Age Comics (2017 Edition) 1 1

[Wayne-Tec]

This is subjective of course, but I think we should have a discussion about how we each value and gage "importance" and "significance."

I've heard it said before: a 1st appearance of a villain cannot top the 1st appearance of a hero. I disagree. If you were asked to rank all of the characters in the Marvel and DC universes combined, I'm confident that The Joker would rate higher than the Green Lantern, Flash, Sub-Mariner or Human Torch. But how do we compare supporting characters with leading characters? Batman can exist without the Joker but can the Joker exist, in solo-fashion, without Batman? Is it possible then for the 4th "best" (subjective) superhero to top the No. 1 villain? Possibly. I don't believe there is any perfect formula here.

The 1st appearance of Captain America, it can be argued, is more "important" than the 1st appearance of the Joker, because you're adding some value for him being a main character that could carry himself solo, where the latter could not. And before we go there, yes, there could be a solo Joker film, but I believe with the Joker, less is more. It's one of the many reasons Heath Ledger's portrayal worked so well. The audience kept waiting to see when he would show up next, and his presence was never over-saturated. That feeling of "I wish there was just a little bit more Joker" is exactly why it was the perfect amount. A solo film would be too much Joker, and realistically, I wouldn't expect to see a trilogy of solo Joker films anytime soon. We've already seen a trilogy of Captain America films.

As far as 1st appearances of GA characters, I feel the combination of Captain America/Bucky Barnes/Red Skull matches up really well vs. Joker/Catwoman, but the main character/hero factor + the introduction of a 3rd major character + an even more classic cover pushes Cap #1 ever so slightly past Batman #1. 

[Chicago Boy]

1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said:

This is subjective of course, but I think we should have a discussion about how we each value and gage "importance" and "significance."

I've heard it said before: a 1st appearance of a villain cannot top the 1st appearance of a hero. I disagree. If you were asked to rank all of the characters in the Marvel and DC universes combined, I'm confident that The Joker would rate higher than the Green Lantern, Flash, Sub-Mariner or Human Torch. But how do we compare supporting characters with leading characters? Batman can exist without the Joker but can the Joker exist, in solo-fashion, without Batman? Is it possible then for the 4th "best" (subjective) superhero to top the No. 1 villain? Possibly. I don't believe there is any perfect formula here.

The 1st appearance of Captain America, it can be argued, is more "important" than the 1st appearance of the Joker, because you're adding some value for him being a main character that could carry himself solo, where the latter could not. And before we go there, yes, there could be a solo Joker film, but I believe with the Joker, less is more. It's one of the many reasons Heath Ledger's portrayal worked so well. The audience kept waiting to see when he would show up next, and his presence was never over-saturated. That feeling of "I wish there was just a little bit more Joker" is exactly why it was the perfect amount. A solo film would be too much Joker, and realistically, I wouldn't expect to see a trilogy of solo Joker films anytime soon. We've already seen a trilogy of Captain America films.

As far as 1st appearances of GA characters, I feel the combination of Captain America/Bucky Barnes/Red Skull matches up really well vs. Joker/Catwoman, but the main character/hero factor + the introduction of a 3rd major character + an even more classic cover pushes Cap #1 ever so slightly past Batman #1. 

I agree with everything you wrote actually.  To be more succinct I can't push the joker ( Cat woman is secondary here to me ) past Cap's 1st appearance with such a classic cover ( however I give the classic cover nod  to Bats 1 here for my $ ).  But using your own argument ( which I agree with ) is exactly why Tec 38 should be higher ranked than Bats 1 ( not even talking about availability here which also wud give the nod to Robin)

[gino2paulus2]

Boy this conversation took a sharp turn into the Bat vs Cap thread didn't it!! 

To me as a 33 year old man (only mentioning this because of generation I guess) is Batman is by far the bigger character it really isn't even close is it?  I say that based on my non comic friends too. They all LOVE Batman and sure Cap was big in the movies (I loved them) but Bats has had more movies (Some good, some bad, and some great), more cartoons, and while I don't do video games I hear more of them as well. His merchandise is EVERYWHERE!!!! Both have AWESOME covers. I personally and if all things were equal would rather have a Captain America #1 but that is because I like those WWII heroes but even on that note as mentioned before Cap wasn't the first and not even closely alone when it came to patriotic heroes of that age. The Shield, US Jones, V-Man, The Flag (Ace), Captain Flag (MLJ), Fighting Yank, Captain Freedom, Miss America, Miss Victory, The Defender, heck Uncle Sam all sported Patriotic themed costumes just to name a few. That being said the Joker wasnt exactly the only villain Clown (Ace) of the time either. Many of the arguments thus far have been purely subjective about which one sports more important first apps. For this day in age both are important. Both are great books. Based on GPA Cap is biting on the heels of Bats #1 in entry level copies but mid to high grade universal still seems to be ruled by Bats #1 doesn't it? I like em both and think both are great books but we are just splitting hairs about which is the better book subjectively only the market can decide that as far as price is concerned. Once again I would rather have a Cap #1 only if all things were equal but I certainly wouldn't brush off a Bats #1 if I could afford one. 

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, gino2paulus2 said:

Boy this conversation took a sharp turn into the Bat vs Cap thread didn't it!! 

To me as a 33 year old man (only mentioning this because of generation I guess) is Batman is by far the bigger character it really isn't even close is it?  I say that based on my non comic friends too. They all LOVE Batman and sure Cap was big in the movies (I loved them) but Bats has had more movies (Some good, some bad, and some great), more cartoons, and while I don't do video games I hear more of them as well. His merchandise is EVERYWHERE!!!! Both have AWESOME covers. I personally and if all things were equal would rather have a Captain America #1 but that is because I like those WWII heroes but even on that note as mentioned before Cap wasn't the first and not even closely alone when it came to patriotic heroes of that age. The Shield, US Jones, V-Man, The Flag (Ace), Captain Flag (MLJ), Fighting Yank, Captain Freedom, Miss America, Miss Victory, The Defender, heck Uncle Sam all sported Patriotic themed costumes just to name a few. That being said the Joker wasnt exactly the only villain Clown (Ace) of the time either. Many of the arguments thus far have been purely subjective about which one sports more important first apps. For this day in age both are important. Both are great books. Based on GPA Cap is biting on the heels of Bats #1 in entry level copies but mid to high grade universal still seems to be ruled by Bats #1 doesn't it? I like em both and think both are great books but we are just splitting hairs about which is the better book subjectively only the market can decide that as far as price is concerned. Once again I would rather have a Cap #1 only if all things were equal but I certainly wouldn't brush off a Bats #1 if I could afford one. 

Yes, Tec 27 (Batman's actual first appearance) does sell for more than a Cap 1 (his first appearance).  And Batman was not the first "dark hero" prowling the streets either, he was a copy of (inspired by) the Shadow if I'm not mistaken.  

So all things being equal, that again would make Cap 1 the more "complete" book compared to Bats 1 which is more or less a consolation prize at this point for people who can't own a Tec 27.  

(And there havrbeen far fewer sales of Cap 1 compared to Bats 1 the last few years, but in the few like for like sales Cap 1 has sold for slightly more than Bats 1 recently).

-J.

[Wayne-Tec]

1 hour ago, gino2paulus2 said:

Boy this conversation took a sharp turn into the Bat vs Cap thread didn't it!! 

To me as a 33 year old man (only mentioning this because of generation I guess) is Batman is by far the bigger character it really isn't even close is it?  I say that based on my non comic friends too. They all LOVE Batman and sure Cap was big in the movies (I loved them) but Bats has had more movies (Some good, some bad, and some great), more cartoons, and while I don't do video games I hear more of them as well. His merchandise is EVERYWHERE!!!! Both have AWESOME covers. I personally and if all things were equal would rather have a Captain America #1 but that is because I like those WWII heroes but even on that note as mentioned before Cap wasn't the first and not even closely alone when it came to patriotic heroes of that age. The Shield, US Jones, V-Man, The Flag (Ace), Captain Flag (MLJ), Fighting Yank, Captain Freedom, Miss America, Miss Victory, The Defender, heck Uncle Sam all sported Patriotic themed costumes just to name a few. That being said the Joker wasnt exactly the only villain Clown (Ace) of the time either. Many of the arguments thus far have been purely subjective about which one sports more important first apps. For this day in age both are important. Both are great books. Based on GPA Cap is biting on the heels of Bats #1 in entry level copies but mid to high grade universal still seems to be ruled by Bats #1 doesn't it? I like em both and think both are great books but we are just splitting hairs about which is the better book subjectively only the market can decide that as far as price is concerned. Once again I would rather have a Cap #1 only if all things were equal but I certainly wouldn't brush off a Bats #1 if I could afford one. 

If we were taking Tec #27 vs. Cap #1, the choice would be easy.

But we're not talking about Batman's 1st appearance or Batman's origin (Tec #33), we're talking about Batman's 14th appearance, Joker's 1st appearance, Catwoman's 1st appearance, no origins for anyone (Tec #33 origin/Tec #34 splash both reprinted) vs. the 1st appearance and origin of Captain America and the 1st appearances of the Red Skull and Bucky Barnes. The matchup of those is close to equal IMO, with the slight edge going to Cap #1.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Wayne-Tec

[Wayne-Tec]

2 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

I agree with everything you wrote actually.  To be more succinct I can't push the joker ( Cat woman is secondary here to me ) past Cap's 1st appearance with such a classic cover ( however I give the classic cover nod  to Bats 1 here for my $ ).  But using your own argument ( which I agree with ) is exactly why Tec 38 should be higher ranked than Bats 1 ( not even talking about availability here which also wud give the nod to Robin)

I definitely understand the Robin > Joker argument. At the end of the day, it's a tough one, but I would give the nod to the Joker.

The Joker + Catwoman combo beats out Robin, though Tec #38 gets bonus points for having his origin. I think Tec #38 is an underrated book, one of the most important comics ever published. I could make a strong argument for moving it up a tier on my list, but as I stated earlier, I believe the "Top-6" of Action #1, Tec #27, Cap #1, Batman #1 and Marvel #1 are on another level, well above anything that falls into the next tier.

[Wayne-Tec]

In respects to Captain America not being the first patriotic superhero, I'd like to get feedback from those more familiar than I am, as I rarely stray far from Marvel/DC.

Too often, I feel characters are plastered with American Flag symbolism to sell books without needing to deeply develop the characters, capitalizing on our sense of patriotism. To an extent, I'm sure this is true of Captain America as well.

But delving deeper, I see Captain America as a pre-WWII symbol supporting the fight against Nazism, created by men whose people, with Jewish roots, were directly effected by the horrors faced in Europe at the time. Yes, the red, white and blue was used to create support for that fight, but the heart of the character, and his creators, was deeper than flags or costume colors.

Do any of the pre-Captain America patriotic superheroes posses that depth? If so, who as I am not very familiar.

[gino2paulus2]

1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said:

In respects to Captain America not being the first patriotic superhero, I'd like to get feedback from those more familiar than I am, as I rarely stray far from Marvel/DC.

Too often, I feel characters are plastered with American Flag symbolism to sell books without needing to deeply develop the characters, capitalizing on our sense of patriotism. To an extent, I'm sure this is true of Captain America as well.

But delving deeper, I see Captain America as a pre-WWII symbol supporting the fight against Nazism, created by men whose people, with Jewish roots, were directly effected by the horrors faced in Europe at the time. Yes, the red, white and blue was used to create support for that fight, but the heart of the character, and his creators, was deeper than flags or costume colors.

Do any of the pre-Captain America patriotic superheroes posses that depth? If so, who as I am not very familiar.

Good question and to answer a bit Captain America wasn't the first sporting the United States colors we know that. I believe though even Uncle Sam from Quality had several issues in 1940 even look at the cover to the classic #7 which was Jan 1941 where it states on the cover he was smashing a, "Mad Dictator" As far as, "pre WWII" heroes fighting nazism and we are assuming the US entered WWII in 12/41 we can say another hero would be Ace's The Flag just as an example. To paint a clear picture look at the cover to Our Flag #2 which came out in Oct 1941 if that isn't fighting Nazis i'm not sure what is. There is even a swastica on the cover. Yes many of the characters at the time seemed to be, "plastered with American Flag symbolism to sell books" it just so happens Captain America was one of those characters as well 

All that being said I'm not knocking the book either I would LOVE to have one I just don't think it was a completely original idea. It was like many others of the time period Cap is simply still in print and media today that's my opinion. Still has room for growth as well in the heirarchy as it is and always will be a MEGA MEGA key and in the end that is what the debate ultimately was about

[Wayne-Tec]

21 minutes ago, gino2paulus2 said:

Good question and to answer a bit Captain America wasn't the first sporting the United States colors we know that. I believe though even Uncle Sam from Quality had several issues in 1940 even look at the cover to the classic #7 which was Jan 1941 where it states on the cover he was smashing a, "Mad Dictator" As far as, "pre WWII" heroes fighting nazism and we are assuming the US entered WWII in 12/41 we can say another hero would be Ace's The Flag just as an example. To paint a clear picture look at the cover to Our Flag #2 which came out in Oct 1941 if that isn't fighting Nazis i'm not sure what is. There is even a swastica on the cover. Yes many of the characters at the time seemed to be, "plastered with American Flag symbolism to sell books" it just so happens Captain America was one of those characters as well 

All that being said I'm not knocking the book either I would LOVE to have one I just don't think it was a completely original idea. It was like many others of the time period Cap is simply still in print and media today that's my opinion. Still has room for growth as well in the heirarchy as it is and always will be a MEGA MEGA key and in the end that is what the debate ultimately was about

Very thorough response, thank you. I'm not too familiar with Uncle Sam beyond the basics: created by Eisner, early patriotic hero, etc.

Being the "first" patriotic superhero isn't necessary, nor is Cap's lack therof a mark against him IMO. I don't knock Batman for coming after Zorro, the Shadow or the Crimson Avenger either.

While it would be nice to claim the title of being "the first", I think being "the first breakthrough" is often times the most applicable term for our favorite heroes. Because their creators borrow ideas/inspiration from previous examples, it's difficult for any superhero to be "the first" of anything outside of being breakthrough.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Wayne-Tec

[sfcityduck]

12 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

Very thorough response, thank you. I'm not too familiar with Uncle Sam beyond the basics: created by Eisner, early patriotic hero, etc.

Being the "first" patriotic superhero isn't necessary, nor is Cap's lack therof a mark against him IMO. I don't knock Batman for coming after Zorro, the Shadow or the Crimson Avenger either.

While it would be nice to claim the title of being "the first", I think being "the first breakthrough" is often times the most applicable term for our favorite heroes. Because their creators borrow ideas/inspiration from previous examples, it's difficult for any superhero to be "the first" of anything outside of being breakthrough.

Methinks you doth protest too much.

Captain America's claim to fame is that he was carried over from Timely to Marvel as a matter of continuity early (like Submariner, but not Human Torch who was a new character).  And he's had a bigger role in the Marvel universe than Subby, so he's viewed by Marvel fans as the most important Timely GA character (beating out Subby and HT).  Consequently, there is an on-going battle between CA 1 and MC 1 for Timely price supremacy despite the fact that MC 1 is the more historically significant book for being the first Timely, introducing Subby and HT to newsstand readers, and creating the Marvel Universe.  As far as I know, the top price paid for a CA 1 is $343K.  For MC 1, it is $350K.  But, it appears CA 1 has the edge right now grade for grade.

Captain America is famous.  But his claim to fame is not that he was some unique archetype of patriotic hero.  He wasn't the first created, wasn't the first created in reaction to WWII, was not the first anti-Nazi hero/cover/story, and may not have been the most popular in the GA itself.   He is just the most popular patriotic hero now.

But Captain America is not close to being the most popular superhero today.  He's way behind Wolverine, Spiderman, the X-Men as a group, and a number of others, including, I'd submit, Batman by a substantial margin.  I believe the most paid for a Batman 1 is $567K.  So even though Batman 1 may be only the fourth most important Batman book, it has the edge on CA 1.  [Perhaps this is reflective that Batman 1 (Spring 1940) is more scarce than CA 1, but who knows the relative scarcity for sure?]

[As an aside:  Captain America's status as a patriotic superhero also may hurt the long term growth of CA 1.  Guys like Ayman Hariri, whose spending as driven most of the big sales in recent years (spent $5.3 million on Action 1s alone), may not view the patriotic hero thing as a plus (and Trump may be doing is own damage).  Hariri is certainly more of a DC guy than Marvel guy.  So I'm not sure the sample that is driving your predictions is representative of the attitudes of actual big money comic buyers.]

But, I do think that to comic buyers "firsts" do matter.  First, anti-Nazi cover matters.  First horror book matters.  First anything seems to matter.  First female superhero matters.  First costumed non-powered superhero matters.   Discounting that ignores far too much history of the hobby.

[Jaydogrules]

18 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Methinks you doth protest too much.

Captain America's claim to fame is that he was carried over from Timely to Marvel as a matter of continuity early (like Submariner, but not Human Torch who was a new character).  And he's had a bigger role in the Marvel universe than Subby, so he's viewed by Marvel fans as the most important Timely GA character (beating out Subby and HT).  Consequently, there is an on-going battle between CA 1 and MC 1 for Timely price supremacy despite the fact that MC 1 is the more historically significant book for being the first Timely, introducing Subby and HT to newsstand readers, and creating the Marvel Universe.  As far as I know, the top price paid for a CA 1 is $343K.  For MC 1, it is $350K.  But, it appears CA 1 has the edge right now grade for grade.

Captain America is famous.  But his claim to fame is not that he was some unique archetype of patriotic hero.  He wasn't the first created, wasn't the first created in reaction to WWII, was not the first anti-Nazi hero/cover/story, and may not have been the most popular in the GA itself.   He is just the most popular patriotic hero now.

But Captain America is not close to being the most popular superhero today.  He's way behind Wolverine, Spiderman, the X-Men as a group, and a number of others, including, I'd submit, Batman by a substantial margin.  I believe the most paid for a Batman 1 is $567K.  So even though Batman 1 may be only the fourth most important Batman book, it has the edge on CA 1.  [Perhaps this is reflective that Batman 1 (Spring 1940) is more scarce than CA 1, but who knows the relative scarcity for sure?]

[As an aside:  Captain America's status as a patriotic superhero also may hurt the long term growth of CA 1.  Guys like Ayman Hariri, whose spending as driven most of the big sales in recent years (spent $5.3 million on Action 1s alone), may not view the patriotic hero thing as a plus (and Trump may be doing is own damage).  Hariri is certainly more of a DC guy than Marvel guy.  So I'm not sure the sample that is driving your predictions is representative of the attitudes of actual big money comic buyers.]

But, I do think that to comic buyers "firsts" do matter.  First, anti-Nazi cover matters.  First horror book matters.  First anything seems to matter.  First female superhero matters.  First costumed non-powered superhero matters.   Discounting that ignores far too much history of the hobby.

I'm starting to think you're just making things up now.  

Batman 1 has A LOT more copies on the census than Cap 1, in both blue label and overall, has been more readily available than Cap 1 for at least the last few years, and that might also have something to do with why Cap 1 has edged past Bats 1 in similar recent grade for grade pricing.  

-J.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Gotham Kid]

IIRC there was a ComicConnect auction last year with universal copies of Bats1 and Cap1 with close enough grades (Bats having the lower grade ) that ended with Bats trumping Cap.

Trying to dig up auction results. It was commented in Gold.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[sfcityduck]

35 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I'm starting to think you're just making things up now.  

Batman 1 has A LOT more copies on the census than Cap 1, in both blue label and overall, has been more readily available than Cap 1 for at least the last few years, and that might also have something to do with why Cap 1 has edged past Bats 1 in similar recent grade for grade pricing.  

-J.

You misunderstand my comment.  I pointed out that a Batman 1 has sold for $200K more than any copy of CA 1, as far as I know, and then stated:  "Perhaps this is reflective that Batman 1 (Spring 1940) is more scarce than CA 1, but who knows the relative scarcity for sure?" 

In short, I am speculating about the relative scarcity of the two comics (both of which appear to be an entirely different tier of scarcity from the earlier GA books) as possibly explaining the prices (which I view as reflecting supply and demand).  I don't view the CGC census as gospel on the relative scarcity of comics.  I am far more inclined to trust the anecdotal knowledge of experienced dealers.  I recognize that there are many raw copies out there sitting in collections.  So I am just offering a potential alternative explanation (supply) to the explanation that "Batman 1 is more popular" (demand) to explain the price discrepancy between a CA 1 9.2 selling for $343,057.00 at ComicConnect on 2011/08/09 and a Batman 1 9.2 selling just two years later for $567,625.00 at Heritage on 2013/08/01.   Another comparison: a CA 1 6.5 sold for $107,550.00 at Heritage on 2014/11/20.  Two years later, a Batman 1 5.5 sold for $239,000.00 at Heritage on 2016/11/17.

Edited July 10, 2017 by sfcityduck

[Jaydogrules]

15 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

You misunderstand my comment.  I pointed out that a Batman 1 has sold for $200K more than any copy of CA 1, as far as I know, and then stated:  "Perhaps this is reflective that Batman 1 (Spring 1940) is more scarce than CA 1, but who knows the relative scarcity for sure?" 

In short, I am speculating about the relative scarcity of the two comics (both of which appear to be an entirely different tier of scarcity from the earlier GA books) as possibly explaining the prices (which I view as reflecting supply and demand).  I don't view the CGC census as gospel on the relative scarcity of comics.  I am far more inclined to trust the anecdotal knowledge of experienced dealers.  I recognize that there are many raw copies out there sitting in collections.  So I am just offering a potential alternative explanation (supply) to the explanation that "Batman 1 is more popular" (demand) to explain the price discrepancy between a CA 1 9.2 selling for $343,057.00 at ComicConnect on 2011/08/09 and a Batman 1 9.2 selling just two years later for $567,625.00 at Heritage on 2013/08/01.   Another comparison: a CA 1 6.5 sold for $107,550.00 at Heritage on 2014/11/20.  Two years later, a Batman 1 5.5 sold for $239,000.00 at Heritage on 2016/11/17.

Apologies for the misunderstanding.  But you're still looking at stale comps that aren't even comparable. 

The most recent and similar like for like sales shows Cap 1 edged ahead of Bats 1 NOW. What happened two, three, eight years ago is not relevant to a conversation  about a "hierarchy" in "2017".

-J.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Gotham Kid]

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

The most recent and similar like for like sales shows Cap 1 edged ahead of Bats 1 NOW.

Do you have those stats ? Are they GPA only ? Do you have data from GAtor, Filter et al ?

Let's go beyond entry level/restored copies with this discussion.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[sfcityduck]

3 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

You're looking at stale comps that aren't even comparable. 

The most recent and similar like for like sales shows Cap 1 edged ahead of Bats 1 NOW. What happened two, three, eight years ago is not relevant to a conversation  about a "hierarchy" in "2017".

-J.

Feel free to provide the comps you think are relevant.

I offered a comparison of 9.2 sales (which don't happen often) only two years apart that showed a the Bats 1 9.2 selling for 65% more than the CA 1, and a comparison of a 6.5 CA 1 sale to a 5.5 Bat 1 sale, at the same venue, two years apart which showed the Bat 1 selling for 120% more than the CA 1 despite being a lesser grade.  Ignore that if you want, but I think it is instructive.

[Gotham Kid]

1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

Feel free to provide the comps you think are relevant.

I offered a comparison of 9.2 sales (which don't happen often) only two years apart that showed a the Bats 1 9.2 selling for 65% more than the CA 1, and a comparison of a 6.5 CA 1 sale to a 5.5 Bat 1 sale, at the same venue, two years apart which showed the Bat 1 selling for 120% more than the CA 1 despite being a lesser grade.  Ignore that if you want, but I think it is instructive.

+1

[Gotham Kid]

2016 (eons ago ... )

Cap 1 8.0 288K

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=650298

Bats 1 8.0 390K

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=682290

Discussion over.

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[Chicago Boy]

18 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

2016 (eons ago ... )

Cap 1 8.0 288K

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=650298

Bats 1 8.0 390K

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=682290

Discussion over.

 

Is the Bats a pedigree book ?  9 months in between sales ?  I'm not saying 100 k difference just pointing out apples to apples 

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, Chicago Boy said:

Is the Bats a pedigree book ?  9 months in between sales ?  I'm not saying 100 k difference just pointing out apples to apples 

To be fair,  I think the page quality was better on the Bat 1.  But, you're not going to get books of this scarcity with the same grade, page quality, and circumstances coming up for sale in every auction.  All that can be said for sure is that a Bat 1 has sold for a much higher price (hundreds of thousands) than any CA 1, and recent seemingly comparable sales spaced two years apart appear to show an edge to Bat 1 even when the passage of time is factored in.