HAKE'S 1 1

[vodou]

51 minutes ago, 1Toy2Many said:

I'm only trying to illuminate the fact that there are many repeat users who LIKE the old way, so if I'm going to get any traction to make changes I'll need to have a strong argument and, more importantly, a stronger solution when I bring it to the table.  It is absolutely a bullet point on my list, though.   

You invited me to make suggestions, I'm not there yet (simply busy and lacking motivation atm) but I'll reply to this. When you reference "the old way" you're also referencing (unintentionally) the fact that Hake's was not particularly (or even at all?) in the comic/illustration art clearing market. Correct? Thus no built-in dedicated core for the material that is willing to suffer abuse (for lack of a better phrase!) The one-size fits all solution is meeting the typical challenge of failing to specialize for specialty markets. In 2017 and for at least ten years back this has been a losing effort -broadly, smaller niche and specialty servicers are pulling market share away from large established (and bloated) infrastructures. This has actually always been the case in free markets, but it's more acutely obvious lately. The margin for error has in this regard has shrunk a lot due to internet efficiencies. Perhaps this can be turned around, it's the opportunity to make Hake's the smaller nice and specialty servicer versus big ol' Heritage? But doing so would require some effort, creativity and a willingness to not only meet the established market (specifically original art) but fill gaps that market doesn't even realize exist (and thus are not currently being filled by the other Houses). That's something you can bring to the table that is topical and timely for any boardroom audience, whether it's Walmart v. Amazon or Hakes v. Heritage.

There's also nothing wrong with a successful business trying to expand into a new market and finding that their corporate culture (or whatever) is not a good fit for that market, not worth the effort/expense, not profitable, what have you. Happens all the time. Hopefully not too much inertia is diverted from profitable lines in this experiment. Or is this all an experiment to get HA to buy Hake's, convince them to expand into toys/character items? (I don't know nuthin' from nuthin', just throwing it out there. Plenty of comics are produced these days primarily to sell to Hollywood so...just sayin'...)

[PhilipB2k17]

It seems to me that one of these auction houses should employ a game theory economist to design a bidding system that makes the most efficient sense for both the buyer and the seller. I like the idea that an auction should not "end" until people have stopped bidding on an item. Sniping occurs because auctions are timed out. But, I do not like the fixed 10 minute time extension either. 

[vodou]

A few additional thoughts to my previous post: I don't think the market needs any more auction/clearing houses unless they bring something (much better service, lower cost structure, etc) unique and valuable to the market. We already have HA that works very well (but is expensive) and CLink which sort of works but not really (at least it's cheaper but otherwise...? sorry Josh) and ComicConnect which is primarily a hassle for casual browsing. What would separate Hake's out in a meaningful and beneficial way from those that already fill the roles of: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?

Unless, of course, the De-Accession Apocalypse of the Boomers and (soon, very soon) GenX means there will be so much material hitting the market it will take all hands on deck to clear it? That I can see too. Hope the buyers will be there also!

[vodou]

4 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

It seems to me that one of these auction houses should employ a game theory economist to design a bidding system that makes the most efficient sense for both the buyer and the seller. I like the idea that an auction should not "end" until people have stopped bidding on an item. Sniping occurs because auctions are timed out. But, I do not like the fixed 10 minute time extension either. 

Great idea. Or just copy Mandarake. Ends at x (say 10pm Japan) unless there are bids the last five minutes (9:55+) that extend for an additional ten minutes (10:05, etc) from last bid post 10pm (iirc, it's been a while), but ALL ENDS NO MATTER WHAT one hour later (11pm Japan) from the original cutoff.

[1Toy2Many]

I thank you all for the suggestions and ask you to keep them coming.  It is all beneficial and is either strengthening my own arguments or providing new ones in several cases.  

This literally just hit the web today and I post this not as a ham-handed attempt at promoting myself, but as a way to share with you MY perspective on where Hake's is now and what I hope to persuade it into as time progresses.  You can skip the top of the interview as it's mostly personal profile stuff, but the last couple questions offer a bit of insight into what I'm trying to maximize within the brand.  It does not include my proposed changes because this interview was before the auction and I wanted to see how it played out before speaking to it.  At the very least, it should hopefully give you more ammo for feedback.

 

http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1017?articleID=196757

[PhilipB2k17]

If I'm a Christies or a Sotheby's, I use my chase in the auction art world to develop my own online auction system, designed from scratch by top notch web designers and a game theory economist to see if I can compete with HA, etc. 

[1Toy2Many]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

There's also nothing wrong with a successful business trying to expand into a new market and finding that their corporate culture (or whatever) is not a good fit for that market, not worth the effort/expense, not profitable, what have you. Happens all the time. Hopefully not too much inertia is diverted from profitable lines in this experiment. Or is this all an experiment to get HA to buy Hake's, convince them to expand into toys/character items? (I don't know nuthin' from nuthin', just throwing it out there. Plenty of comics are produced these days primarily to sell to Hollywood so...just sayin'...)

We are definitely in it for the long haul as far as I know, and if we're not it's really going to suck for me because I've got plans and a great deal of energy committed already! Personal and professional.  

 

1 hour ago, vodou said:

You invited me to make suggestions, I'm not there yet (simply busy and lacking motivation atm) but I'll reply to this. When you reference "the old way" you're also referencing (unintentionally) the fact that Hake's was not particularly (or even at all?) in the comic/illustration art clearing market. Correct? Thus no built-in dedicated core for the material that is willing to suffer abuse (for lack of a better phrase!) The one-size fits all solution is meeting the typical challenge of failing to specialize for specialty markets. In 2017 and for at least ten years back this has been a losing effort -broadly, smaller niche and specialty servicers are pulling market share away from large established (and bloated) infrastructures. This has actually always been the case in free markets, but it's more acutely obvious lately. The margin for error has in this regard has shrunk a lot due to internet efficiencies. Perhaps this can be turned around, it's the opportunity to make Hake's the smaller nice and specialty servicer versus big ol' Heritage? But doing so would require some effort, creativity and a willingness to not only meet the established market (specifically original art) but fill gaps that market doesn't even realize exist (and thus are not currently being filled by the other Houses). That's something you can bring to the table that is topical and timely for any boardroom audience, whether it's Walmart v. Amazon or Hakes v. Heritage.

  I am here to integrate changes and that will absolutely involve breaking away from the status quo.  Otherwise, why I am here at all?  I'm just saying that there is a well-earned success bias that I need to respect when trying to make recommendations and modifications within a 50-year-old company.  I'm the new guy, so I have to earn the right to change things and the only way to do that is with a planned approach.  That's why all this input you all are sending is so valuable and appreciated, as it gives me more leverage beyond my own opinion when I'm sitting in a meeting. 

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

It seems to me that one of these auction houses should employ a game theory economist to design a bidding system that makes the most efficient sense for both the buyer and the seller. I like the idea that an auction should not "end" until people have stopped bidding on an item. Sniping occurs because auctions are timed out. But, I do not like the fixed 10 minute time extension either. 

The one aspect of the funnel that's being overlooked is that many times, buyers will tap out late on pieces they're fighting to buy, but then they will shift their bidding to OTHER pieces that are still active and still at a lower price.  

In other words, you like a particular cover more than any other piece and you're winning it, but you also really like a splash page.  You don't have the budget to win both.  You're winning the cover but suddenly a bid comes in at $5200 and you can't match it......if that splash page is still active at $2600, you can now switch to it.  This is another reason the SELLERS like the extended clock, because that splash page just got another bidder it didn't already have.  It also gives you as a buyer a chance to still walk away with a piece you wanted.  

I'm just saying that if/when changes are made, these are all current factors that will need to be respected and answered.  What is it about the 10 minutes that bothers you, Philip?  

[malvin]

2 hours ago, vodou said:

Great idea. Or just copy Mandarake. Ends at x (say 10pm Japan) unless there are bids the last five minutes (9:55+) that extend for an additional ten minutes (10:05, etc) from last bid post 10pm (iirc, it's been a while), but ALL ENDS NO MATTER WHAT one hour later (11pm Japan) from the original cutoff.

The auctions do "END NO MATTER WHAT" at a certain time. When Hakes was more lower profile, I was bidding on a piece and it was already at double of what I initially thought it would take to win (and at the time 5K was a lot, not that it's little today) and after I was outbid yet again and it was extended for 3 hours I had to really think about that extra 10%, but by the time I decided (which was anyways) the auction was over.  All individual auctions end when the overall auciton ends, regardless of the 3 hour extension is my understanding.

Malvin

[glendgold]

12 minutes ago, malvin said:

The auctions do "END NO MATTER WHAT" at a certain time. When Hakes was more lower profile, I was bidding on a piece and it was already at double of what I initially thought it would take to win (and at the time 5K was a lot, not that it's little today) and after I was outbid yet again and it was extended for 3 hours I had to really think about that extra 10%, but by the time I decided (which was anyways) the auction was over.  All individual auctions end when the overall auciton ends, regardless of the 3 hour extension is my understanding.

Malvin

Wait what

[Hekla]

43 minutes ago, 1Toy2Many said:

The one aspect of the funnel that's being overlooked is that many times, buyers will tap out late on pieces they're fighting to buy, but then they will shift their bidding to OTHER pieces that are still active and still at a lower price.  

In other words, you like a particular cover more than any other piece and you're winning it, but you also really like a splash page.  You don't have the budget to win both.  You're winning the cover but suddenly a bid comes in at $5200 and you can't match it......if that splash page is still active at $2600, you can now switch to it.  This is another reason the SELLERS like the extended clock, because that splash page just got another bidder it didn't already have.  It also gives you as a buyer a chance to still walk away with a piece you wanted.  

The way it appeared to me is that if a bidder concentrates on 'Target Piece A' and the bidding extends the end of auction, 'Target Piece B, C,' etc. may end before bidder gives up on Piece A and then what is remaining?

Maybe extending the bidding by 45 seconds or a minute every time a bid is made would be a better way to give bidders another chance while maximizing sellers expectations? As others noted, due to the auctions being pushed out 10 minutes to 3 hours made me lose interest. I put my max bid in and had to go about my day; I couldn't check back at an indeterminate time.

[1Toy2Many]

1 minute ago, Hekla said:

The way it appeared to me is that if a bidder concentrates on 'Target Piece A' and the bidding extends the end of auction, 'Target Piece B, C,' etc. may end before bidder gives up on Piece A and then what is remaining?

Maybe extending the bidding by 45 seconds or a minute every time a bid is made would be a better way to give bidders another chance while maximizing sellers expectations? As others noted, due to the auctions being pushed out 10 minutes to 3 hours made me lose interest. I put my max bid in and had to go about my day; I couldn't check back at an indeterminate time.

You are correct in that there's no guarantee that Piece B will hang around while you're fighting over Piece A.  But it does offer a chance at least, and I know that's part of the argument in favor of the current system.  Yours (and many others) offer arguments for change. 

[Hekla]

I (and I'm sure others) appreciate you listening and willingness to improve the Hakes system.

[malvin]

56 minutes ago, glendgold said:

Wait what

was what I said unclear? The auction doesn't go on for another year if people keep on bidding, there is a dead stop eventually.  I think its around noon pacific when I was down git.

Malvin

[1Toy2Many]

18 minutes ago, Hekla said:

I (and I'm sure others) appreciate you listening and willingness to improve the Hakes system.

Thank you!  Any changes I attempt to integrate are only good if the people who matter don't like them or don't want them. 

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, 1Toy2Many said:

We are definitely in it for the long haul as far as I know, and if we're not it's really going to suck for me because I've got plans and a great deal of energy committed already! Personal and professional.  

 

  I am here to integrate changes and that will absolutely involve breaking away from the status quo.  Otherwise, why I am here at all?  I'm just saying that there is a well-earned success bias that I need to respect when trying to make recommendations and modifications within a 50-year-old company.  I'm the new guy, so I have to earn the right to change things and the only way to do that is with a planned approach.  That's why all this input you all are sending is so valuable and appreciated, as it gives me more leverage beyond my own opinion when I'm sitting in a meeting. 

The one aspect of the funnel that's being overlooked is that many times, buyers will tap out late on pieces they're fighting to buy, but then they will shift their bidding to OTHER pieces that are still active and still at a lower price.  

In other words, you like a particular cover more than any other piece and you're winning it, but you also really like a splash page.  You don't have the budget to win both.  You're winning the cover but suddenly a bid comes in at $5200 and you can't match it......if that splash page is still active at $2600, you can now switch to it.  This is another reason the SELLERS like the extended clock, because that splash page just got another bidder it didn't already have.  It also gives you as a buyer a chance to still walk away with a piece you wanted.  

I'm just saying that if/when changes are made, these are all current factors that will need to be respected and answered.  What is it about the 10 minutes that bothers you, Philip?  

I think 10 minutes is much too long. Watch a live auction, and the auctioneer doesn't keep asking for a hammer price for 10 minutes straight. It's 2-3 minutes, tops. 

[suspense39]

10 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I think 10 minutes is much too long. Watch a live auction, and the auctioneer doesn't keep asking for a hammer price for 10 minutes straight. It's 2-3 minutes, tops. 

I don't mind the time extension and agree, ten minutes is way too long, I'd even say 1 minute is plenty. 

[glendgold]

Might want to also address invoicing procedures.  The website says you'll be mailed an invoice on the Saturday after the auction.  Which I planned to use to write a check (and get my 3% discount with).  Just now, Friday, received a simultanous invoice and an automatic charge to my AMEX cart.  I'm betting that somewhere on the site it says this will happen, but not as prominently as the "your invoice will be mailed."  I had to call Hake's to take the charge off my card and arrange to pay by check. 

But when I called Hake's just now a recorded message said that they wouldn't take inquiries about the auction until Monday.  So: the charge has to stay on my card for four days. 

So, on the bidding page, instead of that "we'll mail you an invoice" thing, it should say "we're going to charge your card unless you arrange in advance to pay us by check."

Also, it's 2017.  Two weeks for a check to clear?  I want Hake's to make sure they get paid, but is that really still necessary? 

 

 

[vodou]

1 hour ago, malvin said:

was what I said unclear? The auction doesn't go on for another year if people keep on bidding, there is a dead stop eventually.  I think its around noon pacific when I was down git.

Malvin

Sure Malvin, who said they don't end...but one hour. NOT THREE lol.

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, suspense39 said:

I don't mind the time extension and agree, ten minutes is way too long, I'd even say 1 minute is plenty. 

Right. That will end sniping. It gives others an opportunity to outbid, but doesn't drag the thing out. And, don't live auctions keep going until the bids stop?

[vodou]

5 minutes ago, glendgold said:

Might want to also address invoicing procedures.  The website says you'll be mailed an invoice on the Saturday after the auction.  Which I planned to use to write a check (and get my 3% discount with).  Just now, Friday, received a simultanous invoice and an automatic charge to my AMEX cart.  I'm betting that somewhere on the site it says this will happen, but not as prominently as the "your invoice will be mailed."  I had to call Hake's to take the charge off my card and arrange to pay by check. 

But when I called Hake's just now a recorded message said that they wouldn't take inquiries about the auction until Monday.  So: the charge has to stay on my card for four days. 

So, on the bidding page, instead of that "we'll mail you an invoice" thing, it should say "we're going to charge your card unless you arrange in advance to pay us by check."

Also, it's 2017.  Two weeks for a check to clear?  I want Hake's to make sure they get paid, but is that really still necessary? 

 

 

Interesting. Haven't checked yet but if they try to auto-charge the card I put on file it will either reject or go over limit and I'll get a hit. I bet you imagine how well that flows into my definition of customer service oriented enterprise