Opinions about restoring comic art 0

[Rune]

Normally I think light restoration of comic art is a good thing, like gluing a stat to its original position when it has become detached. But I just saw this piece and I couldn't help thinking that something precious may have been lost in the restoration:

Original

 

Restored

After checking HA.com I don't think the new stats can be easily removed:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/barry-smith-conan-the-barbarian-4-the-tower-of-the-elephant-cover-original-art-marvel-1971-/a/7084-92354.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Note that HA did disclose that the piece had been restored: "The upper margin has been closely trimmed right to the art; there's some overall wear and light soiling; and note that all of the masthead, logo, and type elements at the top are carefully color-matched replacements". 

I'm not sure I prefer the restored version  On the original you can see some original art (one of the spider's legs in pencil) now being hidden and it seems that Barry Smith marked both placement of the title and comic code stamp in pencil. 

My question for this thread: what do you prefer, the original or the restored piece?

Edited July 28, 2017 by Rune

[ESeffinga]

Yeah, that's not restoration IMO.
That's fudged!
And a shame too, cause it's a cool image.

[delekkerste]

5 hours ago, Rune said:

My question for this thread: what do you prefer, the original or the restored piece?

Funny, I was just on Robert Dennis' website a a few days ago and saw the unrestored image of this cover for the first time.  I was surprised at how the cover looked like beforehand...BUT, I have to say, I do prefer the restored, finished version more than the original.  It just presents so, so much nicer IMO.  If I had been the owner, I would have instructed Dennis to keep the top border, and I would have at least explored having the color-matched stats put on an overlay.  But, between having a choice of using (archival) glue to paste on the stats or leaving the art alone...I would have opted for the glued-on stats.  

Regarding your question about the ASM #98 cover, yes, the previous owner did have Robert Dennis clean up the piece after winning it at Heritage.  I would have done likewise - I don't normally mind the usual signs of aging and have erred on the side of leaving well enough alone in the past, but, in this case, I felt the glue stains were a bit too distracting. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by delekkerste

[zhamlau]

Trimming that top border isnt smart, at first I thought it was complete removed but now in comparing the marks its just trimmed a little. I would adjust the stat to drop back into the primary image "rectangle" and leave the top as is. If you can adjust that stat I think its good.

Edited July 28, 2017 by zhamlau

[JadeGiant]

Ideas on why the top was trimmed? I wouldn't have even considered that. 

 

As for the comparison and my preference - this is new water for me as I have never owned a piece that needed work. I think I would have preferred to explore overlay options - really anything that would not have permanently adhered new pieces to the paper. I don't really know all the options here but the idea of permanently adding to the paer makes me cringe a bit. 

[rocket1312]

Was the cover trimmed?  Looking at both images and comparing the marks in the corners it seems like the board wasn't altered at all.  Just for whatever reason the restored art was extended all the way to the edge.

 

Count me in the camp of preferring the look of the restored art but at the same time I can't image doing something like this directly onto the board rather than by way of an overlay.

[Pete Marino]

the top was not trimmed. look at the ink mark on the top left side.  it's exactly the same, they just put the logo all the way to the top of the board.

[Rune]

1 minute ago, Pete Marino said:

the top was not trimmed. look at the ink mark on the top left side.  it's exactly the same, they just put the logo all the way to the top of the board.

That's my thought too.

It looks like some of the original inked art was changed too (or hidden beneath a stat) in order to extend the web. 

[vodou]

28 minutes ago, rocket1312 said:

Was the cover trimmed?  Looking at both images and comparing the marks in the corners it seems like the board wasn't altered at all.  Just for whatever reason the restored art was extended all the way to the edge.

 

Count me in the camp of preferring the look of the restored art but at the same time I can't image doing something like this directly onto the board rather than by way of an overlay.

If trimmed, dumb. The issue is that Conan's broken sword as published rides too high on the original to work as is. But a better solution imo would have been to color copy the portion that would be covered by the trade dress, move it up and under the new trade dress and give the presentation, all on an overlay, without having to change any of the actual physical characteristics of the original in any way. All reversible too.

[Rune]

1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

Funny, I was just on Robert Dennis' website a a few days ago and saw the unrestored image of this cover for the first time.  I was surprised at how the cover looked like beforehand...BUT, I have to say, I do prefer the restored, finished version more than the original.  It just presents so, so much nicer IMO.  If I had been the owner, I would have instructed Dennis to keep the top border, and I would have at least explored having the color-matched stats put on an overlay.  But, between having a choice of using (archival) glue to paste on the stats or leaving the art alone...I would have opted for the glued-on stats.  

Regarding your question about the ASM #98 cover, yes, the previous owner did have Robert Dennis clean up the piece after winning it at Heritage.  I would have done likewise - I don't normally mind the usual signs of aging and have erred on the side of leaving well enough alone in the past, but, in this case, I felt the glue stains were a bit too distracting. 

I did think that Dennis probably had cleaned your new amazing Spidey cover - it looks much better now. I wouldn't consider removing glue stains or anything that has nothing to do with the original art as a problem - but for Conan #4 I would have preferred a less invasive solution. Of course getting the piece to look the best vs. preserving the original may be quite troublesome, I don't know how hard it would be getting an overlay to fit

To me Conan #4 is very special - like Roy Thomas has explained:
"For #4 I decided to do something different. From the beginning I had wanted to adapt Robert E. Howard‘s stories as well as make up so my own, but our contract with the REH estate gave us rights only to use Conan, not any particular stories. Now I got permission from Glenn Lord in a letter to adapt the story in which the Cimmerian is chronologically youngest—"Tower of the Elephant," which had quickly become my favorite Conan tale of all-as an issue of Conan. Either Marvel or I-I suspect Marvel-paid a little extra for the right to adapt the story, but at this point I‘ve totally forgotten how I swung that or how much it cost. Working with Howard's actual prose, not just my couple of pages of accompanying notes, apparently turned Barry on, and he did a wonderful job. From the time Barry drew "Tower of the Elephant," there was no looking back for either of us." 
Excerpt from "The Barry Windsor-Smith Conan Archives Volume 1" 2010 (the foreword by Roy Thomas). 

In an interview May 1998 Barry Windsor-Smith mentioned that Conan the Barbarian #4 was quite special to him:
"Roy had sent me all of the Lancer paperbacks some months prior to our beginning the first issue, so my prior affinity was merely months old but, as it happens, that made my perceptions energetic and fresh because I was utterly hooked by Howard's writing style. "The Tower of the Elephant," in particular, was a real head trip, to use the vernacular of the time".
Excerpt from "Comic Book Artist" #2

Had Marvel not acquired the rights to adapt Robert E. Howards original Conan stories, Marvel's Conan the Barbarian books would probably never had reached similar popularity. Published during the year 1971 these Robert E. Howard adapted stories won the "Academy of Comic Book Arts Awards Best Continuing Feature". Roy Thomas also explained in the extra material on the 2011 Conan Blu-Ray movie, when Marvel's Conan books were selling at their best, Marvel's Conan earnings were twice as high as Marvel's earnings on The Amazing Spider-man and The Fantastic Four combined.

Conan the Barbarian #4 is a key book in my opinion, and thus the original art cover of great historical importance. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Rune

[Claudio]

Does anyone here know approximately how much it would cost to clean some pieces?  I have a few lower end pieces I was thinking about having cleaned.  Not sure if it is cost prohibitive... 

[Superhero]

Maybe I am in the minority but I believe restoring art is completely fine and actually makes it better unless the original image is altered.  Cleaning and removing stains, adding back lost mastheads, word balloons and other type elements (on on overlay) is fine with me.  I think the pieces present better and more closely match the original and in many cases preserve the art.  It is art.  It is meant to be displayed and enjoyed.  As long as the original composition is kept, I don't see the problem. 

[malvin]

3 hours ago, Superhero said:

Maybe I am in the minority but I believe restoring art is completely fine and actually makes it better unless the original image is altered.  Cleaning and removing stains, adding back lost mastheads, word balloons and other type elements (on on overlay) is fine with me.  I think the pieces present better and more closely match the original and in many cases preserve the art.  It is art.  It is meant to be displayed and enjoyed.  As long as the original composition is kept, I don't see the problem. 

+1, I agree!

Malvin

[Panelfan1]

6 hours ago, Claudio said:

Does anyone here know approximately how much it would cost to clean some pieces?  I have a few lower end pieces I was thinking about having cleaned.  Not sure if it is cost prohibitive... 

Check with Robert Dennis on Caf for a quote.  It isnt cheap, but if it improves your enjoyment of the art might be worth it.   Alternatively spend the funds on more art instead of restoring.

[williamhlawson]

Hmmm...I prefer the restored version due to the simple eye appeal difference.  Historically speaking, this is a choice cover.  Very choice.  I would never want anything being done that can't be immediately and completely undone.  Historical pieces such as this have a much higher degree of concern than 'average' modern pieces imho...  I did a period of doctoral study on cleaning various types of damage off paintings with lasers and it blows my mind what can be done with technology. 

[PhilipB2k17]

I have a golden age page that has glue stains in some places. I talked to a local art dealer (not OA, but Art) who appreciates comic art and has had some pieces in his gallery. They do art restoration, cleaning, etc all the time and have a national rep. 

Was going to get a quote on removing the stains