Brittle Pages 3 3

[SuperBird]

Brittle pages are a non-starter for me. 

[N e r V]

In my comments I wasn't trying to judge anyone buying a book with Brittle pages. I'm sure all the information posted so far is correct and even Brittle pages of some sort could be maintained as a collectible for a time.

They are a deal breaker for me however and if I was in the market for a large book (like Action #1) even with Brittle pages the asking price is going to be high is my point. I've seen books with Brittle pages that were at least in the multiple of thousands of dollars and to me the asking price is still to high. I think sellers are counting on the fact when a book is uncommon (maybe even Centaur scarce) that the buyer will overlook to a degree the PQ. I'm not saying this is right or wrong since if a seller can get that asking price and the buyer is willing to pay it how could anyone complain?

But there a number of other defects I pass on like rusty staples, most foxing and sunshadows, etc... that others will gladly pay the price as well so....

 

 

 

 

[sacentaur]

1 minute ago, SuperBird said:

Brittle pages are a non-starter for me. 

A deal-breaker for me, too. 

Though I do respect varying opinions on this subject, a brittle book is too close to being a corpse to get any interest from me.

I have knowingly only ever purchased one 'slightly brittle' book, and that was a Jumbo 9 (it had some minor resto too, so I was OK with it at the right price).

[pemart1966]

I wouldn't go near a book with brittle pages - way too far down the degradation scale for me.  In fact, I wouldn't even consider a book with tan pages.  Off-white and up for me...

[october]

Slightly brittle? Maybe, if the book is rare enough and if I can flip through the pages. 

Brittle? Deal breaker. 

[bluechip]

19 hours ago, Eggman said:

All - Good afternoon.  I am curious on your opinions re: brittle pages.  Do they bother you?  Will you fully avoid books with this designation?  How does this impact pricing relative to a non-brittle page situation?  Does it depend on the significance or rarity of the book...and if so, how?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Two books I once owned got the "slightly brittle" designation and both were offered/resold again recently.   Got them both over 25 years ago and neither got worse (or better) in all the time I had them.   One had a very tiny little area affected at the top of the spine, which you could tell had been exposed more than the rest of the book for a long time at one point, sitting in a stack   (you could tell because of the dust shadow, which apparently didn't affect the grade).   The other had reached a point where right edges of the book were disintegrating so badly that someone applied massive amounts of tape to hold it together.   But the spine and left side of the book was and is I presume still supple.   Now there's no way the average person would consider those two books as having anything close to similar amounts of damage due to brittleness.   Yet the designation on their labels is identical.  

(btw the book with the tiny spot of slight brittleness got hammered hugely when I sold it and has been hammered each time it's been resold (although not so much this latest time.   The other book, with the massive taped brittleness, got hammered as well, but in my opinion not nearly so much as the other.   Of course it could have to do with the relative desirability of the books, but it's worth noting that in this day when people try to put precise numbers on books so they can be valued by some mathematical forumla, the designations for brittleness currently allow for a vast difference between books with identical designations.

[N e r V]

It's physiological but I always think of this with the term Brittle pages.

 

You know that sound it makes when you bend it? That's how I think of the comic book pages on a Brittle book. I'm sure not that bad but....

[Artboy99]

I own a book that has brittle pages.

Planet Comics 5.

At the time I purchased the book, it was the only copy I had seen for sale in 2 years.

[GoldCap]

9 hours ago, N e r V said:

In my comments I wasn't trying to judge anyone buying a book with Brittle pages. I'm sure all the information posted so far is correct and even Brittle pages of some sort could be maintained as a collectible for a time.

They are a deal breaker for me however and if I was in the market for a large book (like Action #1) even with Brittle pages the asking price is going to be high is my point. I've seen books with Brittle pages that were at least in the multiple of thousands of dollars and to me the asking price is still to high. I think sellers are counting on the fact when a book is uncommon (maybe even Centaur scarce) that the buyer will overlook to a degree the PQ. I'm not saying this is right or wrong since if a seller can get that asking price and the buyer is willing to pay it how could anyone complain?

But there a number of other defects I pass on like rusty staples, most foxing and sunshadows, etc... that others will gladly pay the price as well so....

 

 

 

 

I agree completely.   My most wanted book, a Cap #1, even with brittle pages would not be at a discount significant enough for me to buy it compared to a copy with tan or better pages.  I would just continue saving for the slightly higher page quality book.  I mean, if the book was half GPA with brittle pages then ok but I'd be constantly looking for an upgrade   

[jabats]

If entry level Action 1 is 250ish now...

And a 1.0 unrestored (brittle) were offered for 175k .. it would sell very quickly no?

(maybe my numbers are off but you get the idea)

In my opinion brittle books, like trimmed, need a discount to sell, but realistically ... a nicely presenting but brittle unrestored book still has a healthy market, if it's a hot book and the price is right. Probably a deeper market than the same book if trimmed.

 

[Zolnerowich]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:18 PM, Artboy99 said:

I own a book that has brittle pages.

Planet Comics 5.

At the time I purchased the book, it was the only copy I had seen for sale in 2 years.

Along the same lines as Artboy99...

Brittle pages are best avoided. But as noted above in this thread, the rarity of the book may provide a good reason to go forward with brittle, if there isn't anything else out there, and if there's no reason to crack it out. Such as Artboy's Planet Comics 5. Such as Jumbo Comics 9, with just a total of 9 copies on the CGC census, and only 7 universal/unrestored copies, the highest being the recent Berk copy at 7.5, then 7.0 (1), 6.5 (1), then mine at 3.0. It's a brittle book, and you can see the chip in the bottom left of the holder (which has been there at least since 2016, when the book was sold at HA, and given the old holder, was probably there for a good while before then). As someone else noted above, the CGC graders probably knocked down the grade for the brittle alone; otherwise this book presents with great color and looks more like a 6.0 (maybe?). Anyhow, without further ado, a case for brittle...

[Hudson]

I think, as with many things, price is the key factor.

Although I would PREFER not to buy a brittle book, or a trimmed book, or a restored book, in the end IF the price was low enough, then there is no such thing as a ":non starter". 

This is NOT to say that I actively look for books with brittle pages or other major defects.  Like most collectors, I prefer my books in the best condition possible. 

That being said, however, the bottom line is still going to be price.  If someone walks up to me with an AC1 with brittle pages, for the right price, I am a buyer all day long.

[Hudson]

Here is a "brittle" page book that I doubt anyone would turn down IF the price was right....

[woowoo]

3 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Here is a "brittle" page book that I doubt anyone would turn down IF the price was right....

You do know that's a 100k plus book easy

[Hudson]

14 hours ago, woowoo said:

You do know that's a 100k plus book easy

Yes, it most certainly is!

[woowoo]

10 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Yes, it most certainly is!

I say it's worth it easy

[Hudson]

Here is another book.

This one is for sale, right now, on these boards.

Although it has brittle pages, I am guessing many members would still pull the trigger given the right price point.

 

[ThothAmon]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:18 PM, Artboy99 said:

I own a book that has brittle pages.

Planet Comics 5.

At the time I purchased the book, it was the only copy I had seen for sale in 2 years.

I know the feeling but you must fight the temptation.  Brittle pages reminds me of my own mortality.

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, Hudson said:

Here is another book.

This one is for sale, right now, on these boards.

Although it has brittle pages, I am guessing many members would still pull the trigger given the right price point.

 

I think that's been established now. Many would accept Brittle pages on certain books and at a certain price but also many  (I'm in that camp) would pass on any book at any price with Brittle pages. 

 

My logic on it is once you start talking about spending say either $1000.00 or $100,000.00 on a book you may as well spring for the better PQ even if it means waiting a bit. If 2 copies of Action #1 came up in identical condition and 1 had Brittle pages at 100k and another had cream to off white at 150k I'd still spring the extra 50% for the better PQ. It's also been my experience (although this could be incorrect) that most sellers with Brittle paged books are not discounting them that much as the above 50% I did as an example. I watched 2 PCH books sell on Clink one time with the difference of about $200.00 and 1 had Brittle pages and 1 had off white. Auction prices always vary but I thought that was crazy. I've seen a number of Brittle paged books sell pretty close or at copies with better PQ. You could argue the buyers either don't care about PQ, are not informed enough about it, or simply are willing to get a copy at that time regardless. 

 

 

[rjpb]

23 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I think that's been established now. Many would accept Brittle pages on certain books and at a certain price but also many  (I'm in that camp) would pass on any book at any price with Brittle pages. 

 

My logic on it is once you start talking about spending say either $1000.00 or $100,000.00 on a book you may as well spring for the better PQ even if it means waiting a bit. If 2 copies of Action #1 came up in identical condition and 1 had Brittle pages at 100k and another had cream to off white at 150k I'd still spring the extra 50% for the better PQ. It's also been my experience (although this could be incorrect) that most sellers with Brittle paged books are not discounting them that much as the above 50% I did as an example. I watched 2 PCH books sell on Clink one time with the difference of about $200.00 and 1 had Brittle pages and 1 had off white. Auction prices always vary but I thought that was crazy. I've seen a number of Brittle paged books sell pretty close or at copies with better PQ. You could argue the buyers either don't care about PQ, are not informed enough about it, or simply are willing to get a copy at that time regardless. 

 

 

Brittle paged books seem to do better at auction than just up for sale. I'm guessing people start out bidding on them hoping to get a large discount relative to not brittle copies, and then as they get outbid revise their estimate of value upwards. They will still sell for a discount against books with better page quality, but sometimes not as much as one would think. I would also expect that classic cover books do better with brittle pages as well. There are plenty of classic cover books where most collectors don't really care about the interior content at all, and in such cases might actually prefer a brittle paged 3.0  with a mid grade looking cover to a 3.0 with compromised eye-appeal and better PQ, especially if they plan on leaving books slabbed. Sure they'd rather have a 3.0 book with decent eye-appeal and PQ, but if the price is right, or the book scarce, they'll compromise.