The "Newsstand Edition" Phenomenon 5 5

[RockMyAmadeus]

9 minutes ago, shadroch said:

McClure says he told Bob about hundreds of books that didn't exist. You say its impossible because everyone knew a few of them existed, but admit no one realized the extent of how many variants actually existed.  Same you pull everytime someone posts something you don't agree with.

Anyway, as I said. It was a fun thread for awhile. 

What was preventing you from saying that, rather than taking a personal shot at me...?

And yes, it's the "same I pull everytime someone posts something I don't agree with", because it's wrong. There's nothing to "admit"; the guy is shading the truth for...what? It's not true that he discovered them, and we know that because they were in the very same price guide published by the guy he claimed didn't know anything about it, and had been for nearly 20 years by the time McClure "discovered" them. If you claim to be the discoverer of something...it really ought not be about something that the industry-standard price guide had already been publishing for a couple of decades. Call me crazy!

I've got a NEW DISCOVERY I'm going to mention, right here, for the very first time: Spiderman's first appearance is in Amazing Fantasy #15! You heard it here FIRST!

So yes, I'm going to challenge it, because it's not true. Are you seriously suggesting that hype and BS is more important than the facts...?

Edited October 26, 2017 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, shadroch said:

BTW- I don't believe Bud Plant did wholesale  mainstream comics until around 1978. Before that, he was all about undergrounds, portfolios and alternatives.

/plant tongue firmly in cheek

There's shadroch, incessantly arguing about the meaning of other people's words again. The thread was fun while it lasted. Oh well.

/remove tongue from cheek

The point is, as you know, there were Direct market distributors outside of Western prior to that time period. To call these Direct books "Whitmans" is to not have a wholly accurate view of the situation as it existed.

[RockMyAmadeus]

32 minutes ago, darkstar said:

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Other companies involved in what? Direct market distribution, or Direct market cover marking?

No, it's not safe to say that. There were multiple Direct market distributors...Seagate, Bud Plant, Pacific Comics etc....before Marvel started experimenting with cover dress in late 1976. 

Aside to @Lazyboy and @darkstar...would it kill ya to give some of my posts a like once in a while...?  I go around, liking all your posts, and get NO love in return. Jeez.

Allegedly we're the same person though, so all of my liked posts are also your liked posts.

So, I should not like your posts, because that's just self-promotion...?

Whoa. Meta.  

[Semicentennial]

5 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

Well done Rock. You clearly know your stuff here. 

 

 

I agree.  Thanks for the insight on this.

[Martin Sinescu]

Going back a few pages.... I'm still confused about how a direct market dealer in the 80's has the option to purchase both DM and newsstand editions at the same time when the two versions shipped three weeks apart.  That's the most mind-blowing part of this thread to me.

[exitmusicblue]

Noticed Spawn 1 Nwsstand vs. Direct also has a significant price differential, in the hundreds of dollars in CGC 9.8.  Goes back to my thought that the mega-popular keys produced in the gazillions in DM edition will have more appeal in Newsstand edition.

Edited October 27, 2017 by exitmusicblue

[RockMyAmadeus]

8 minutes ago, Martin Sinescu said:

Going back a few pages.... I'm still confused about how a direct market dealer in the 80's has the option to purchase both DM and newsstand editions at the same time when the two versions shipped three weeks apart.  That's the most mind-blowing part of this thread to me.

It depended entirely on the distributor. Since most comics were being printed at World Color in Sparta, Ill, all at the same time, they were available for transport as soon as they were ready. They'd sit on huge pallets in the Sparta warehouse, waiting to be picked up for distribution, every day. The Direct market folks only dealt with comics and comics related magazines. The newsstand distributors ("Independent Distributors") had a lot more than just comics to distribute; they had all sorts of other magazines and print material to deal with. 

That's why newsstand books had a lag time. However, sometimes, some of the newsstand distributors were a lot quicker on the ball, so they'd get the books quicker. It was just two different routes from the same place  to the same place. By the time the Direct market came into its own in the mid-80's, the shipping had become a science, so that stores in Hayward, CA would get the same new books, on the same day or couple of days, as stores in Poughkeepsie, NY. But the newsstand distributors, because they had so much more to do, took their sweet time a lot of the time, sending giant shipments to local warehouses and hubs to be sub-distributed from there. 

Here is an AMAZING video from a tour in Sparta in 1977:

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

18 hours ago, The_Investor said:

I respectfully need to differ with you in regards to the Canadian Edition labels. "Canadian Edition" should refer only to the 1940's + comics because those books had some different content (cover page at times....and different ads) . Also, the printing slabs were shipped from the USA to Canada thus having a different origin altogether. On a different point, being a Canuck yourself ( I am as well) I'm certain you're aware that at the start of WW2 a law was passed in Canada that limited imports from the USA (this included comic books) therefore Canadians felt the need to create their own content  (i.e, thus the creation of Nelvanna , etc...)  

However, the 1980's is a whole different story. These comics were printed at the same time, same ink, same location with the same content as direct copies (except for the bar code and the price listed on the cover which was slightly higher to compensate for the falling loonie). These Canadian Price Variants were also sold in the USA in certain locations either testing the market with a higher cover price or to fill in under-supplied areas just south of the border (Some large Chain stores such as 'Toy's "R" Us ' sold these books in multi packs but having been shipped from Canada back to the USA the books were not in the best of conditions. Funny thing that we are discussing the "Canadian Edition" labels, rarecomics.wordpress.com  just released an article yesterday about this very topic and it's a very good read and accurate indeed.   

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/2017/10/25/canadian-edition-vs-canadian-cover-price-variant/  

"Lazyboy" why don't you reach out to Doug Sulipa who lives in your neck of the woods. He will also tell you the exact same thing I mentioned above. He's a really nice man and is the most knowledgeable individual I know when it comes to understanding the 1980's cover price variants. Also reach out to Jon McClure who is a Comic Book historian and discovered the 30/35 cent cover price variants that we all collect today thanks to him. Jon is also saying the same thing . Both of these men are Senior Overstreet advisors as well.

It was great exchanging thoughts on this issue with you- thanks:)  Gotta run now, have a class to teach. Sorry for any spelling mistakes above...english is my third language.     

Yeah, no he didn't.

[FlyingDonut]

11 hours ago, shadroch said:

As I recall, and it was well over thirty years ago, Man Of Steel #1 came with two covers. The  Newstands got one with Clark Kent ripping open his shirt to reveal the Superman emblem. The DM got one with just a close up of the Superman emblem. 

Added:

Mile High has both DM and Newstand copies of the Clark Kent cover, so it appears you were correct. The closeup is a variant cover. 

Man of Steel 1 had two covers, and with 500 DM MoS 1s, you got a special "collectors edition" pin. I know, because I have (a) one of those pins and (2) about 450 copies of MoS 1. It'll be worth more some day.

[FlyingDonut]

8 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I take it back...as I did some more research, I find that Mr. McClure does, indeed, claim to be the "discoverer" of the 30/35 cent cover price variants.

http://www.jonmcclurescomics.com/

...which is odd, since Star Wars #1 35 cent has been known since almost the very beginning, and I'm not sure Mr. McClure discovered it.

And since that one has been known since the very beginning, at least in theory, so have the rest. 

[FlyingDonut]

McClure's article came out in Comic Book Marketplace 55. I can state without question that I was buying 30 and 35 cent variants before that article came out. In fact, McClure's article hosed me, because a guy in Baltimore jacked up the prices on all his variants.

30 cent variants were well known in the DC area because Baltimore was a test market. The late 80s and early 90s had a show in the area almost every week as there were competing comic show promoters around here - 30 cent variants were all over the place. They have very much dried up now, but it made it easy to start a set.

[RockMyAmadeus]

53 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

McClure's article came out in Comic Book Marketplace 55. I can state without question that I was buying 30 and 35 cent variants before that article came out. In fact, McClure's article hosed me, because a guy in Baltimore jacked up the prices on all his variants.

30 cent variants were well known in the DC area because Baltimore was a test market. The late 80s and early 90s had a show in the area almost every week as there were competing comic show promoters around here - 30 cent variants were all over the place. They have very much dried up now, but it made it easy to start a set.

Same in Northern California. I was aware of these...just not the extent. I was buying them if I could find them for $1 or less. This would have been 1990-1993. Should have been more aggressive. Off the top of my head, San Jose was also a test market.

I have an issue with someone claiming they "discovered" something, when that something had already been published in the Overstreet Price Guide more than a decade earlier (speaking specifically of X-Men #98-100.) 

I truly do not understand why people are so wedded to being wrong that they're willing to publish it, in the face of obvious proof that totally negates their claims. And these people are "Senior Overstreet Advisors"...? Really...? 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, FlyingDonut said:

Absolutely. We've floated that letter from Sol around for 20 years now. Too bad Sol didn't inquire further, nor Mr. Lykins, nor the circulation dept. offer more information...you know, like mentioning it was company-wide. Would have addressed this a lot sooner.

[Logan510]

1 hour ago, FlyingDonut said:

Man of Steel 1 had two covers, and with 500 DM MoS 1s, you got a special "collectors edition" pin. I know, because I have (a) one of those pins and (2) about 450 copies of MoS 1. It'll be worth more some day.

Can you please post a picture of the pin? I've never seen that and I think I'd like to start looking for one.

[nocutename]

4 hours ago, Logan510 said:

Can you please post a picture of the pin? I've never seen that and I think I'd like to start looking for one.

+1

[valiantman]

7 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I truly do not understand why people are so wedded to being wrong that they're willing to publish it, in the face of obvious proof that totally negates their claims. 

No comments about Trump in Comics General.

[valiantman]

This is as detailed as we can get.  Everything else is speculation. 

[shadroch]

When it comes to companies like Image, were newsstand editions distributed widely or only regionally? 

[xcomic]

Hello everyone, repeating here my below post from over at the "please introduce yourselves" area:

 

Hello Everybody!   My name is Benjamin Nobel.  I don't use my CGC account in the message board area that I'd be someone you'd recognize, so this appears to be the appropriate thread for you to meet "xcomic" as the dormant handle I randomly chose back when I signed up.  Hence the reason I'm posting in this particular spot.  But the reason I am posting at all is because things have recently been posted on the CGC boards about me that I felt needed a response (any open minded individual will hopefully realize there are two sides to every story, and it is not always is it necessary to chime in with your side, but in this particular case I felt I must).

One of the ways I participate in our great hobby is by maintaining a blog.  My blog is the one recently mentioned in the "Newsstand Edition" thread.  Some might not approach comics the same way I do or have my same interests or agree with my opinions and collecting conclusions, but the response to my blog in the aggregate has been overwhelmingly positive and has introduced me to some of the great minds in the niche areas that attracted my focus.  I even got the chance to collaborate with some of these incredible people that I've met, on a recent project we feel will be a great benefit to the hobby.

Unlike a book or a printed article, or a static website, each of my blog posts on Wordpress by contrast is open for public comments at the bottom (I give you this background in the context of why I'm here, so bear with me).  That's a little daunting when the whole world wants their link included to their site, and you wouldn't believe the sheer volume of comments that fall under that link-spreading category with boilerplate remarks.  But fortunately, the way Wordpress works, that firehose of comments (including those from "bots" and those under bogus email addresses) is filtered first:  Wordpress automatically attempts detect the ones they think are "real" and emails those to me for my moderation/approval, but does not give me an email notification about the ones their algorithms decide are not real.   Only once I approve an initial comment does it then appear online.  Depending on how busy I am with work and family, typically at least once a week I have a chance to review and react to the comments that come through.  I rarely if ever check the ones that Wordpress auto-filters out, but occasionally when someone has given me a heads-up that their comment never appeared, I'll find it somehow got there into that filtered-out folder.

When one of those Wordpress emails comes through alerting me to a new comment they judge to be "real," I always approach all such comments left on my blog with the baseline of assuming positive intent on the part of the person leaving the comment.  Sometimes, however, I ascertain that the person on the other side of the conversation actually has negative intent or has a personality I would clash with or otherwise want to avoid.  Let me give an example of behavior reflective of a personality I might want to avoid, using the following real life scenario:  Have you ever purchased a comic on eBay?  Have you ever messaged a seller across eBay's message platform?  How would you feel if you were having what you thought was a private conversation with a seller across eBay, and revealed something personal to them such as how you were just laid off from your job, and the area where you live, and then later learned that the eBay seller had been posting your private eBay messages to the CGC boards verbatim complete with your eBay handle and your name, the whole time, without your initial knowledge, and then told you later that those posts were happening?  An acquaintance told me of this precise type of occurrence, sharing a link into these very CGC boards, and I learned from reading that link what the CGC handle was for the person (the eBay seller).  Note: I'm not taking sides on their dispute, just observing the posting behavior of the seller.  Keep this story in your mind for context, knowing that I myself had heard it and had it for my context, as I tell you what comes next...

I came to learn that two of the different "handles" that had left comments on my blog -- giving the outward appearance of being two separate people instead of one -- were actually really one person; and what's more, they were yet a third/different handle over here on the CGC boards, i.e. their handle here matches neither of the handles they used when commenting on my blog...  I only learned they matched up to this board handle when someone later shared a link with me into the boards, showing that back then as I had been conversing with this person in my comment section, they had meanwhile been posting our conversation to the CGC boards the whole time and talking negatively about me here behind my back.  Guess what?  That person's handle is the same one as the eBay story you kept in your mind for context.  This is a perfect example of a person who might be extremely knowledgeable about comics -- might post on average 11 times per day for 12 years running and have a ton of experience -- but where I will choose to discontinue conversing with the person across my blog comment section, not to close my mind to alternate views, but rather to shut out a personality I find toxic to interact with.  I did in fact sent a Wordpress reply to this person telling them I would not be allowing further comments (and why) but I have no way of knowing if they received that reply.

I have reviewed some of the recent posts by this person and noticed they opted to drag Jon McClure's name through the mud and belittle his contributions to the hobby and his discoveries about 35 cent variants.  Seeing this happen, I hope any reasonable observer here will now understand why I did not want to welcome this kind of behavior "in my own home" and converse with this person further -- my blog is a little like my online home and when you comment there you are my visitor; there is no reason I should allow you to overstay your visit if you start bad-mouthing my friends and people I respect or start "getting up in my face"... would you allow that behavior in your home?  Sometimes you have to say goodbye to an unruly guest and shut the door.

Excepting this one person from these boards who I wish to discontinue conversing with, please know that everybody else is welcome to reach out to me and leave your own comments (ones that you have composed yourself and are respectful), on my blog, should you wish to do so (understanding please that given this recent situation plus the increased blog traffic in connection with the recent project I mentioned, that I might naturally be suspicious that any new commenter might be this same person under yet another handle or through a courier -- I noticed over the course of their communications with me that not only had they commented on my blog under two different handles while using a different third handle here, they also maintain at least two unique email addresses as shown by Wordpress; I will not violate their privacy by revealing the addresses but I can confirm to you that they used at least the two I saw; I believe that it only takes a working email address to establish an alias on most public message boards which is one of the reasons I have avoided public message boards -- you never know how many actual individuals is behind a chorus of voices, and over on a public Yahoo board many years ago I once had the unpleasant surprise of discovering through observing a posting error by a multi-aliased-individual that such behavior is unfortunately quite commonplace on public boards).

My next post here after this one, is going to be a reply to a critique of a post I made on the topic of Amazing Spider-Man #400 (understanding the true newsstand edition).  This particular book isn't one I collected myself, but among topics I talk about on the blog, later newsstand comics are a definite focus, and the situation with #400 is both interesting and frequently-asked, so I posted about it.  In general, I particularly like newsstand comics with cover prices that differ from the corresponding direct editions, where various "classes" of such newsstand comics were being overlooked by other collectors, to the point where I could routinely find the demonstrably-more-rare cover price variant out there for sale in the marketplace for "regular price" -- in other words, cases where the seller knew only that they owned a particular issue number of a particular title and nothing further about the newsstand vs. direct edition difference (and therefore they "mis-listed" their more-rare newsstand type for sale with an ask at the going rate for the regular direct edition type, without any indication in the title or description that the pictured comic was actually the rare cover price variant, when the picture clearly showed that it was).

My posts advocate this "relative value approach" to collecting, with special emphasis on later newsstand comics as a broad category, one that I feel is still being under-advocated, not-typically-broken-out-by-CGC (although progress is being made), and under-appreciated as a niche -- think about how many thousands of comic retailers out there are educating their customers all about "retailer incentive variants" and charging through the nose for them while giving a strong "pitch" about why they are so desirable, but by contrast, very few out there in the hobby are advocating newsstand comics and articulating why they like them; that's what I've tried to do as someone who now counts myself in the newsstand-preference-camp: to study and "make the case" -- from one collector to another -- for different groups/types, such as the Type 1A 75 cent cover price (and other price) newsstand comics of the 1980's.  [Before closing this post I'll answer an anticipated question: comics are a hobby for me only; I do not earn my living in the field of comics; when I buy and sell it is to advance my own collection; my goal is to collect comics that make me happy and share with other collectors what it was that drew me to be interested in the comics I like to collect].

Sincerely,
- Ben

[ygogolak]

Are there CliffsNotes available?

Edited October 27, 2017 by ygogolak