Robert Kirkmans History of Comics 2 2

[Captain Canuck]

What was everyone's thoughts on the premiere episode in the 6 part series? I found it to be very informative and well done. New episode Monday night. I am curious why there isn't more episodes. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Captain Canuck

[lizards2]

I went to sleep after the Walking Dead.  Was it on this late last year?  It seems to me it was a couple hours earlier.

[justafan]

I liked it.  Tidbits that seemed to corroborate or source from the untold history of Marvel Comics and other similar books published about the comics industry were neat.  The parts I liked best were the sound-bites from Kirby and photos of Ditko, Kirby, and Stan at their different ages providing faces to names that I can now reference when thinking of them.  Really interesting were a lot of the 3rd party accounts of their relationship and behaviors.  The interview with Stan when he was point blank asked about why Kirby left was revealing just in the moment of silence and facial demeanor change before he responded that he doesn't really know why.

I also gained a better appreciation for why Kirby drew the way he did and as even Stan agreed that although Kirby was not the best at drawing anatomy, it was his ability to articulate complex expressions and emotions in the character's faces and in the dynamic  scenery of the art in each panel that brought the reader into the action. I'll keep watching.

 

 

[Rhymenoceros]

I caught the tail end of it, set the DVR for a rerun to catch it all.  I really enjoyed what I did see - there were some sound bites of what seemed to be a call or radio show with both Stan and Jack and a story about their last meetings. That was where I caught it anyway, til the end of the episode.  I'll watch!

[GoldCap]

I'm a big Patriots fan (naturally, as I was born in MA and have lived here my whole life) but I switched from the game to this episode at 11 when it came on.  I found it very interesting!  I knew some of the history (as I'm sure most people who are members of this board probably do) but I definitely learned a bunch about Kirby.  I feel sad about his feelings of lack of credit.  And the Silver Surfer was his idea?  Didn't know that!  Makes me want to jump into "The Secret History of Marvel" which is just sitting on my dresser but I have to finish another book first.  I will be watching tonight!

[Captain Canuck]

Tonight's episode looks like it is going to be a great take on the history of Wonder Woman.

[comicwiz]

17 hours ago, GoldCap said:

And the Silver Surfer was his idea?  Didn't know that!  Makes me want to jump into "The Secret History of Marvel" which is just sitting on my dresser but I have to finish another book first.

I think this has been brought up in the past, not sure I remember where. Issues 48, 49, and 50 were pretty much all Kirby. Silver Surfer as Galactus' herald was talked about as something Stan didn't write in, but when Kirby explain why he added him in, Stan immediately steps in to take credit. If you can, rewatch that instance of the interview. It reminded me of that quote from the Vulture article - the backdrop to the following quote is regarding a project Stan was involved in called Dragons vs Pandas:

The biggest laughs come a few minutes later, during the question-and-answer period. I ask him what his and Dougas’s collaboration process is like. “We hate each other!” Lee says. “He does all the talking, the girls love him because he’s good-looking, and he just keeps me around — why do you keep me around? I haven’t figured that out yet. No, he’s great to work with. He does all the work, I take the credit. You couldn’t have a better arrangement.”

Edited November 14, 2017 by comicwiz

[AmazingComics413]

Watched most of episode 1. Fun episode, early Marvel history never gets old, but this show repeated most of the information that other comic documentaries/interviews have already touched on. Liked the inclusion of old interviews audio.

They got me, I watched the show assuming Lee was going to reveal something we didn't know. Didn't like the part where Lee claims he didn't know why Kirby left.

Edited November 14, 2017 by AmazingComics413

[cms1]

I thought the show was pretty good, but I think the first episode should have been at least another 30 minutes longer because it kinda of seemed like it was wrapped up pretty quick.

[jcjames]

1 hour ago, AmazingComics413 said:

Watched most of episode 1. Fun episode, early Marvel history never gets old, but this show repeated most of the information that other comic documentaries/interviews have already touched on. Liked the inclusion of old interviews audio.

They got me, I watched the show assuming Lee was going to reveal something we didn't know. Didn't like the part where Lee claims he didn't know why Kirby left.

Yeah, definitely felt like he was lawyerly parsing his words at that point.

Maybe Jack didn't tell him directly at that time, or maybe he did and gave various reasons. But clearly over the years it has become known what problems Kirby was having with Marvel and Stan so to just come out and say "I don't know" left a lot still to be said.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Based on last nights episode, I can't wait to see next weeks on Superman. Wondering if it will talk about DC's mistreatment of Siegel and Shuster and delve into it or only touch upon it. 

[VintageComics]

23 hours ago, GoldCap said:

I'm a big Patriots fan (naturally, as I was born in MA and have lived here my whole life) but I switched from the game to this episode at 11 when it came on.  I found it very interesting!  I knew some of the history (as I'm sure most people who are members of this board probably do) but I definitely learned a bunch about Kirby.  I feel sad about his feelings of lack of credit.  And the Silver Surfer was his idea?  Didn't know that!  Makes me want to jump into "The Secret History of Marvel" which is just sitting on my dresser but I have to finish another book first.  I will be watching tonight!

The story goes that Kirby was upset at not being allowed to draw the Surfer in his own title after creating him.

The last issue (#18) was finally given to Kirby to draw - right before it got cancelled.

Kirby always envisioned the Surfer as an angry, powerful alien while Stan Lee took him in the direction of the empathetic, tormented, hopelessly romantic philosopher.

When you read issue #18 you'll see that Kirby begins to take him in an entirely different direction as a raging alien on the last page - right before it got cancelled.

I find it hard to believe Stan didn't know why Kirby left.

[Dr Zen]

On an episode of Comic Book Men Stan also uses the "I was in Europe at the time and didn't know" when asked about the killing of Gwen Stacy. A claim that Gerry Conway denies. He swears that Stan was there and knew everything.

"I was in Europe" seems to be his fallback. 

[mackenzie999]

23 hours ago, comicwiz said:

...when Kirby explain why he added him in, Stan immediately steps in to take credit.

This stood out to me as well. I like the idea of Stan Lee, but sometimes the reality is kind of a donkey.

I also hated the execution of the animated segments, but that's probably because that's my field and I thought them poorly done. It was a lot for episodic television though, and doing it better would have busted their budget for sure so I get it I guess.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Mackenzie999

[Treco]

15 minutes ago, Mackenzie999 said:

This stood out to me as well. I like the idea of Stan Lee, but sometimes the reality is kind of a donkey.

I also hated the execution of the animated segments, but that's probably because that's my field and I thought them poorly done. It was a lot for episodic television though, and doing it better would have busted their budget for sure so I get it I guess.

I agree that some of the details of Stan and Jack's history together are a bit unsavory. But I do believe that Stan really propelled the company into the mainstream with his tireless promotion. Call it what you will, but seeing this through my eyes as a kid...ignorance was really bliss. I thought that Stan was indeed the man! I devoured the books and wanted to know who wrote, penciled, and colored each of them. I was a fan. My visions of the bullpen were of a group of folks having the times of their lives.

Jack was no doubt a major driving force behind a lot of the creations and deserved a much better fate, but I don't discount what Stan was doing at all.

[rjpb]

18 minutes ago, Treco said:

I agree that some of the details of Stan and Jack's history together are a bit unsavory. But I do believe that Stan really propelled the company into the mainstream with his tireless promotion. Call it what you will, but seeing this through my eyes as a kid...ignorance was really bliss. I thought that Stan was indeed the man! I devoured the books and wanted to know who wrote, penciled, and colored each of them. I was a fan. My visions of the bullpen were of a group of folks having the times of their lives.

Jack was no doubt a major driving force behind a lot of the creations and deserved a much better fate, but I don't discount what Stan was doing at all.

Exactly. All you have to do is look at what Jack was doing before he hooked up with Stan at Marvel. The hero stuff he did for Archie and DC didn't exactly set the comic world on fire. The same can largely be said for Jack's post-Marvel work in the BA. The 4th world, as well as Demon and Kamandi, are cool contributions to the Bronze Age, but they seem a bit clunky storywise, and may owe something to the integrated shared universe with character development concepts that Stan really pushed in the Silver Age.  That's not to say Stan would have had anywhere near the same success without him. They are an example of a creative team that together were far more important than individually.

[lizards2]

Memory is a funny thing.  If you imagine something enough times, it becomes a real memory for all practical purposes, despite any contradictory evidence.

I'm sure what Stan is claiming is very real in his mind.

[delekkerste]

57 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

Memory is a funny thing.  If you imagine something enough times, it becomes a real memory for all practical purposes, despite any contradictory evidence.

I'm sure what Stan is claiming is very real in his mind.

Stan's body language signals deception when he answers the question of why Kirby and Ditko left.  He starts fidgeting a lot with his glasses and eyes; of course he knows why they left.  Overall, I thought the first episode was decent...for the layman.  For diehards like many of us on the Boards, it doesn't offer any new insights whatsoever.  The animation I found to be overdone and annoying.

I'm watching episode 2 now (the Wonder Woman one).  Given that most of the subjects are deceased and there is little archival footage, it relies heavily on actors recreating scenes from the past.  I am not finding it to be very good.  

[lizards2]

32 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Stan's body language signals deception when he answers the question of why Kirby and Ditko left.  He starts fidgeting a lot with his glasses and eyes; of course he knows why they left.  Overall, I thought the first episode was decent...for the layman.  For diehards like many of us on the Boards, it doesn't offer any new insights whatsoever.  The animation I found to be overdone and annoying.

I'm watching episode 2 now (the Wonder Woman one).  Given that most of the subjects are deceased and there is little archival footage, it relies heavily on actors recreating scenes from the past.  I am not finding it to be very good.  

Yeah - I saw the advertisement with the whips and lingerie 

I haven't watched any of it yet - I may pass and put my time towards other things.

[badback83]

19 hours ago, lizards2 said:

Yeah - I saw the advertisement with the whips and lingerie 

I haven't watched any of it yet - I may pass and put my time towards other things.

Have you seen the movie that came out about a month after Wonder Woman?  Professor Marston and the Wonder Women?  I enjoyed it, but I don't know if it did well in theaters.