Bigger BA Key: GL 76 or HOS 92? 2 2

[NoMan]

On 12/20/2017 at 7:27 AM, Gatsby77 said:

I can't believe this even in discussion.

HOS 92 is a book with a cool cover that introduces a third-tier character. It's also experiencing some pre-movie speculation hype (w/ Justice League Dark).

GL 76 changed the nature of stories told in comic books, let alone superhero books -- hence heralding the new (Bronze) age. Far more significant.

But who cares about story in this new CGC cover-oriented world and obsession with first appearances over all else?

Next people will be arguing that Moon Knight's as significant as Ghost Rider...

Moon Knight is my main man!

[Randall Ries]

4 hours ago, JTLarsen said:

Yes. Swamp Thing 20 and 21 are hugely underappreciated by the market.

The whole Moore run was an excellent read. GL 76 made its point with "adult" story telling. And that's about it. As has been mentioned, it has been copied and become the industry norm. HOS 92 is timeless. I hope when a movie comes out, they (DC) don't ruin it like virtually every movie they have made.

[Ken Aldred]

7 hours ago, Ryan. said:

Seems like the Alan Moore run on Swamp Thing, and the downstream effects it had on comic storytelling, are being undersold in this discussion. That run was hugely influential.

Yup. It was Moore who first retconned the HOS 92 story into continuity, that there have been many Swamp Things throughout history, not just Alex Olsen and Alec Holland.

[kimik]

The Moore run does not hold as well over time, IMHO. I started to reread it a little while back and stopped. It was not that great. At the time of release it was more siginificant. Gaiman's Sandman and Miller's TDK stand up much better. 

It is funny, we see the same situation we are debating now between ST #37 vs. ST #20/21. Issues 20/21 ushered in the change in the character and arguably modern writing, but  the introduction of another second or third tier character (Constantine) is the far more valuable issue. I am not bothered by the fact that HOS #92 is more valuable than GL #76, or that 1st apps and classic covers will escalate in value more than other issues going forward. Other hobbies trended that way a long time ago and comics are just following suit.

Edited December 23, 2017 by kimik

[JTLarsen]

On 12/22/2017 at 6:56 PM, Randall Ries said:

The whole Moore run was an excellent read. GL 76 made its point with "adult" story telling. And that's about it. As has been mentioned, it has been copied and become the industry norm. HOS 92 is timeless. I hope when a movie comes out, they (DC) don't ruin it like virtually every movie they have made.

Which is it? It made its point and that's about it? Or it became the industry norm? Because becoming the industry norm is the definition of being timeless. The fact that HOS 92 may stand up as a better story--or one that doesn't feel as dated--doesn't change the fact that GL 76 changed comics. You don't have to be an old person to know that. But you do have to read your history. Read comics journalism/interviews/etc. from the mid-'70s on, and its impact will become clear.

[Randall Ries]

19 hours ago, JTLarsen said:

Which is it? It made its point and that's about it? Or it became the industry norm? Because becoming the industry norm is the definition of being timeless. The fact that HOS 92 may stand up as a better story--or one that doesn't feel as dated--doesn't change the fact that GL 76 changed comics. You don't have to be an old person to know that. But you do have to read your history. Read comics journalism/interviews/etc. from the mid-'70s on, and its impact will become clear.

Good points. For my part, I am a little conflicted. While the stories were better and more socially focused, eventually everything slid back to giant typewriters terrorizing the city or other inanity. Bob Haney, Adams and O'Neil showed everyone what comic story telling should be. So, I'm not belittling GL 76 or its contribution to better artwork/story telling. The question was asked in the title of this thread and I put in my 2 cents is all. But the better stories were already happening before Adams and O'Neil took on GL/GA. The grown up writing was on the wall afaic when Adams broke out the Deadman stories in Strange Adventures. Insofar as GL 76 and HOS 92 are concerned, the real start of the Bronze age (and a story that encapsulated both adult story telling and the gothic together) is Detective 395.

[JTLarsen]

On 12/29/2017 at 8:34 AM, Randall Ries said:

Good points. For my part, I am a little conflicted. While the stories were better and more socially focused, eventually everything slid back to giant typewriters terrorizing the city or other inanity. Bob Haney, Adams and O'Neil showed everyone what comic story telling should be. So, I'm not belittling GL 76 or its contribution to better artwork/story telling. The question was asked in the title of this thread and I put in my 2 cents is all. But the better stories were already happening before Adams and O'Neil took on GL/GA. The grown up writing was on the wall afaic when Adams broke out the Deadman stories in Strange Adventures. Insofar as GL 76 and HOS 92 are concerned, the real start of the Bronze age (and a story that encapsulated both adult story telling and the gothic together) is Detective 395.

I'm very sympathetic to the argument on behalf of Detective 395. In terms of impact AT THE TIME, however, GL 76 was an earthquake that built in power as it rippled out over the years. The market may very well decide that that impact is no longer relevant, but historians of the art form will continue to acknowledge the impact it had at the time. Scratch most of today's most popular creators, and you'll find Adams generally and GL 76 specifically somewhere in there.

[shadroch]

First time wandering into this thread and I'm shocked by the results. I expected  GL 76 by a landslide.