US vs UK copies 2 2

[gadzukes]

3 hours ago, woowoo said:

They even smell and taste the same. 

[woowoo]

5 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

They even smell and taste the same. 

[N e r V]

4 hours ago, gadzukes said:

There is absolutely no way to tell a coverless Pence from a coverless Cent copy.  They are exactly the same.

Tear off the "price", the "month", and the indicia from the front cover and there is no way to tell either.

True but most collectors aren’t into coverless comics...

 

Just sayin’

[gadzukes]

Thought I'd resurrect this thread.

I seem to remember many boardies claiming that Pence copies were only worth about 60%-65% of their US counterparts, with key issues on the higher side of that percentage.

SO, I thought I'd take a gander at some current GPA data and see how the Pences are doing compared to the Cents copies. 

Since the Pence copies don't come up too often I looked back about 18 months and if I found a Pence had sold I looked at a corresponding cents copy sales average from around the same date.

From what I can tell the Pence copies are gaining respect and their value percentage is increasing in relation to cent copies of the same grade (with one notable exception being a 6.0 AF15 which might be an outlier?).

Here's some data (within the last 18 months, prices are rounded):

Please note:  The US values are probably NOT the current values because I was matching dates with whenever a Pence copy sold.  If it seems confusing then I apologize for the way I've laid it out.

AF15 6.0 US = $48000 / AF15 6.0 UK = $27500 which is 58% of US copy  (I believe whoever got this Pence copy got a heck of a deal!!!)

AF15 3.0 US = $14400 / AF15 3.0 UK = $12200 which is 85% of US copy

AF15 2.0 US = $10800 / AF15 2.0 UK = 8600 which is 80% of US copy

FF1 3.0 US = $7200 / FF1 3.0 UK = $5900 which is 82% of US copy

DD1 6.5 US = $2800 / DD1 6.5 UK = $2300 which is 82% of US copy

AV1 7.0 US = $6700 / AV1 7.0 UK = $4100 which is 61% of US copy

AV1 4.5 US = $2700 / AV1 4.5 UK = $2000 which is 75% of US copy

ASM1 5.0 US = $6900 / ASM1 5.0 UK = $5900 which is 85% of US copy

Xmen1 6.0 US = $8200 / Xmen1 6.0 UK = $7500 which is 91% of US copy

JIM83 3.5 US = $3600 / JIM 3.5 UK = $3500 which is 97% of US copy

Hulk1 4.0 US = $11,300 / Hulk1 4.0 UK = $10,500 which is 93% of US copy

TOS39 5.0 US = $6200 / TOS39 5.0 UK = $5000 which is 80% of US copy

TOS39 4.5 US = $5200 / TOS39 4.5 UK = $4700 which is 91% of US copy

ST110 6.0 US = $2500 / ST110 6.0 UK = $2000 which is 80% of US copy

TTA27 6.0 US = $4900 / (closest pence data is for a 6.5 which went for $6100 which is 124% of the US 6.0 copy)

 

Except for the 6.0 AF15 pence copy only going for 58% of the US copy, you can see the percentages seem pretty high.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by gadzukes

[Lazyboy]

9 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

I seem to remember many boardies claiming that Pence copies were only worth about 60%-65% of their US counterparts.

SO, I thought I'd take a gander at some current GPA data and see how the Pences are doing compared to the Cents copies.

Now do books that aren't key and/or hot, to prove them right.

[gadzukes]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Now do books that aren't key and/or hot, to prove them right.

[miraclemet]

2 hours ago, gadzukes said:

Thought I'd resurrect this thread.

I seem to remember many boardies claiming that Pence copies were only worth about 60%-65% of their US counterparts.

SO, I thought I'd take a gander at some current GPA data and see how the Pences are doing compared to the Cents copies. 

Since the Pence copies don't come up too often I looked back about 18 months and if I found a Pence had sold I looked at a corresponding cents copy sales average from around the same date.

From what I can tell the Pence copies are gaining respect and their value percentage is increasing in relation to cent copies of the same grade.

Here's some data (within the last 18 months, prices are rounded):

Please note:  The US values are probably NOT the current values because I was matching dates with whenever a Pence copy sold.  If it seems confusing then I apologize for the way I've laid it out.

AF15 6.0 US = $48000 / AF15 6.0 UK = $27500 which is 58% of US copy  (I believe whoever got this Pence copy got a heck of a deal!!!)

AF15 3.0 US = $14400 / AF15 3.0 UK = $12200 which is 85% of US copy

AF15 2.0 US = $10800 / AF15 2.0 UK = 8600 which is 80% of US copy

FF1 3.0 US = $7200 / FF1 3.0 UK = $5900 which is 82% of US copy

DD1 6.5 US = $2800 / DD1 6.5 UK = $2300 which is 82% of US copy

AV1 7.0 US = $6700 / AV1 7.0 UK = $4100 which is 61% of US copy

AV1 4.5 US = $2700 / AV1 4.5 UK = $2000 which is 75% of US copy

ASM1 5.0 US = $6900 / ASM1 5.0 UK = $5900 which is 85% of US copy

Xmen1 6.0 US = $8200 / Xmen1 6.0 UK = $7500 which is 91% of US copy

JIM83 3.5 US = $3600 / JIM 3.5 UK = $3500 which is 97% of US copy

Hulk1 4.0 US = $11,300 / Hulk1 4.0 UK = $10,500 which is 93% of US copy

TOS39 5.0 US = $6200 / TOS39 5.0 UK = $5000 which is 80% of US copy

TOS39 4.5 US = $5200 / TOS39 4.5 UK = $4700 which is 91% of US copy

ST110 6.0 US = $2500 / ST110 6.0 UK = $2000 which is 80% of US copy

TTA27 6.0 US = $4900 / (closest pence data is for a 6.5 which went for $6100 which is 124% of the US 6.0 copy)

 

Except for the 6.0 AF15 pence copy only going for 58% of the US copy, you can see the percentages seem pretty high.

 

 

OMG I just did a similar analysis today! my discovery was the higher the grade, the higher the gap in US vs UK prices realized.Once you get below VG theres almost no difference.

[Unstoppablejayd]

..Here is Xmen one census... which one should cost more if scarcity is part of the equation when collecting these old funny books

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

..Here is Xmen one census... which one should cost more if scarcity is part of the equation when collecting these old funny books

 

The US version, of course, because the book was published in the US, and because of the decades-long resistance of the US comics market to recognize UK versions as being "on par" with US versions, which makes sense.

Alternately, if there had been US versions of books like L. Miller & Son's Marvelman, printed at the same time, then I would place more value on the UK versions, since that's where the book was published (yes, I know, it originated from Captain Marvel reprints to begin with, but work with me.)

Of course, it is far, far, far more difficult for US collectors to obtain books published in the UK...like 2000AD, for example...than for people in the UK to obtain US versions, because of the disparity in size between the two markets. If there was a concurrent US version, printed specifically for the US or North American market, then I would want the "original" UK version. 2000AD #2, for example, or Captain Britain #8. And...not quite the same, but Warrior Magazine is valued much more highly than its later Eclipse counterpart, at least for issues #1-10, because Warrior is the original.

Publications flowed regularly to the UK from the US after WWII; they rarely flowed in reverse. LOTR and Harry Potter are two significant exceptions to that dynamic. 

Interestingly enough, culturally, the UK provided significant and far-reaching contributions to the US in other artforms, such as music and film (film especially from the 90s forward), but in comics, it would take British creators working on US-published comics to make their most significant and lasting contributions.

[Unstoppablejayd]

16 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The US version, of course, because the book was published in the US, and because of the decades-long resistance of the US comics market to recognize UK versions as being "on par" with US versions, which makes sense.

Alternately, if there had been US versions of books like L. Miller & Son's Marvelman, printed at the same time, then I would place more value on the UK versions, since that's where the book was published (yes, I know, it originated from Captain Marvel reprints to begin with, but work with me.)

Of course, it is far, far, far more difficult for US collectors to obtain books published in the UK...like 2000AD, for example...than for people in the UK to obtain US versions, because of the disparity in size between the two markets. If there was a concurrent US version, printed specifically for the US or North American market, then I would want the "original" UK version. 2000AD #2, for example, or Captain Britain #8. And...not quite the same, but Warrior Magazine is valued much more highly than its later Eclipse counterpart, at least for issues #1-10, because Warrior is the original.

Publications flowed regularly to the UK from the US after WWII; they rarely flowed in reverse. LOTR and Harry Potter are two significant exceptions to that dynamic. 

Interestingly enough, culturally, the UK provided significant and far-reaching contributions to the US in other artforms, such as music and film (film especially from the 90s forward), but in comics, it would take British creators working on US-published comics to make their most significant and lasting contributions.

I understand your stance... but if they were all printed at the same time... in the us and then shipped to a different region wouldn't they more closely equate to the 30 and 35 cent variants? It is the same exact circumstance, same print run with only a price change in a much smaller geographic area. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

I understand your stance... but if they were all printed at the same time... in the us and then shipped to a different region wouldn't they more closely equate to the 30 and 35 cent variants? It is the same exact circumstance, same print run with only a price change in a much smaller geographic area. 

No, because the 30 and 35 cent variant were printed for the US market, to be sold in the US, despite their limited status.

It's the psychological stigma attached to a price that isn't "American", which means it's "off" in some way (to eyes that are used to seeing American prices.) Fair or not, that's the way it goes. 

Interestingly enough, Canadian versions are accepted in the US without question, and always have been, while Australian books...when they make it here...are rarely noticed....and all because they share the same price symbols.

It's that big ol' "d" and/or "p" and/or "/" that just kills it for UK copies. If the price symbols had been the same...even if the prices themselves were different...I bet you would see no resistance at all.

[Unstoppablejayd]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No, because the 30 and 35 cent variant were printed for the US market, to be sold in the US, despite their limited status.

It's the psychological stigma attached to a price that isn't "American", which means it's "off" in some way (to eyes that are used to seeing American prices.) Fair or not, that's the way it goes. 

Interestingly enough, Canadian versions are accepted in the US without question, and always have been, while Australian books...when they make it here...are rarely noticed....and all because they share the same price symbols.

It's that big ol' "d" and/or "p" and/or "/" that just kills it for UK copies. If the price symbols had been the same...even if the prices themselves were different...I bet you would see no resistance at all.

So if someone had a g/vg copy of a mega key and it was a pence- you would buy it if the price was ripped off but if it was not you would want to pay less? I say it like this because the rip is allowable in those grades.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, Unstoppablejayd said:

So if someone had a g/vg copy of a mega key and it was a pence- you would buy it if the price was ripped off but if it was not you would want to pay less? I say it like this because the rip is allowable in those grades.

That's an interesting theory!

The collector in me cringes at the thought...but if there's no other way to tell, you make a compelling argument....

I wonder if that has already happened.................

 

[Unstoppablejayd]

4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

That's an interesting theory!

The collector in me cringes at the thought...but if there's no other way to tell, you make a compelling argument....

I wonder if that has already happened.................

 

I will admit I am a but biased in this since I own an X-men 1 pence copy- but because of this I did a lot of research on them. To me the rarity  of the book drew me to it, and I can not see a true difference from your average price variant and I am almost sure my scenario above has happened because of the bias on them, and no other differences. - you wouldn't even need a rip... a well placed price stamp and you can probably go into higher grades!

[gadzukes]

3 hours ago, miraclemet said:

OMG I just did a similar analysis today! my discovery was the higher the grade, the higher the gap in US vs UK prices realized.Once you get below VG theres almost no difference.

Yes, I agree with you.  However, on these key issues the gap (even in higher grades) seems to be getting narrower.

If only some higher grade Pence copies could be pried out of collections and brought to market we would be able to find out how narrow the gap is.  But high grade pence copies are so rare that once they make it into a collection, they stay.

[rakehell]

8 hours ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

To me the rarity  of the book drew me to it

I agree completely. I'm in the fortunate (dubious?) position of experiencing both sides of this issue. I was born in the US & started collecting in the early 70's. One of my earliest comic book memories is of picking a brand new ASM 129  from the spinner rack in King Super in Littleton, Colorado. I've lived in the UK for the last 26 years & collected the whole time. My first job in the UK was managing the Birmingham branch of Stateside Comics (remember them?) & my first thought on being presented with boxes full of pence covers was "What the hell is this cr*p?" I've since become a bit of an evangelist for the UK price point, mostly because of the scarcity attached to some of the books. The climate over here & the shipping conditions mean that finding nice copies of some of the Silver Age books presents a real challenge.

8 hours ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

I am almost sure my scenario above has happened

I see it all the time, but usually on low grade non-key books. The price is either obscured by a smear of black felt tip, or it's been picked at, or made to look like it's been picked at, possibly to remove a secondary market price sticker. The reality is that most UK collectors prefer the cents covers, too. Silly, I know, but it helps to be philosophical about it. It means I can get my pence copies cheaper.

Edited August 23, 2018 by rakehell
profanity!!

[rakehell]

9 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Once you get below VG theres almost no difference.

Good point. We're at parity already with most non-key books. After all, how much are you going to pay for a VG copy of Conan the Barbarian #64, regardless of its original price point?

[Get Marwood & I]

15 hours ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

So if someone had a g/vg copy of a mega key and it was a pence- you would buy it if the price was ripped off but if it was not you would want to pay less? I say it like this because the rip is allowable in those grades.

 

Bear in mind for early Marvel copies that you'd have to rip the date box off as well if your intention was to pass a pence copy off as a cents. And the Thorpe & Porter indicia details too. Two examples to prove the point here:

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

I've killed the pence thread...

 

Ironic. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/23/2018 at 5:21 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

 

Bear in mind for early Marvel copies that you'd have to rip the date box off as well if your intention was to pass a pence copy off as a cents. And the Thorpe & Porter indicia details too. 

 

23 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

On we go.

In my post here from page five I show the three differences between the pence copies of ASM #1 and it's centless cousin:

 

 

Those differences again (Mr Plow):

1. Price (duh!)
2. Missing month in the issue box
3. Thorpe & Porter indicia

I saw some speculation in a thread elsewhere once about trying pass off a pence copy as a cents, by removing the cover price. I joined in, mentioned the other two differences, and was ignored. No change there.

Sure enough, someone has had a go at it - look at this ebay listing here:

 

Hmmm. The copy conveniently has its price and date box removed 

A closer look:

 

But look - they haven't torn off the bottom so, if it is a pence copy, the indicia will give the game away with a Thorpe & Porter logo.

If you think about it, assuming it's a pence copy:

1. CGC missed it. Don't they read my threads? 
2. The buyer will pay 'cents' prices
3. Mycomicshop are selling it (in good faith)

Not very satisfactory is it?

I wish someone would buy it and crack it open. Of course, it may just be a brutalised cents copy. But can you think of another reason to cut away the date and price? There are unscrupulous people out there.... possibly called Brian