Page quality vs grade?
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I recently upgraded one of the key books in my collection from a 6.0 with off-white pages to a 7.0 with off-white to white pages. I passed on a 6.5 with white pages. I'm happy with my decision but just curious how important page quality is to other collectors. While I would love to have all my books with white page quality, if I have the chance to move one full grade higher then I wouldn't mind dropping page quality - though I would not go lower than off-white. Other opinions?

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Depends are how rare the book and if you would ever be able to upgrade.Sometimes you just have to be happy for what you can get for which i am (thumbsu

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I almost buy exclusively books with white pages. Some books are just impossible to get in White and sometimes for me if I get a great deal on the book I will buy a lesser PQ. I accidently bought a cream to off-white once and am still irritated at it.

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I know some collectors look at PQ first and foremost when considering a book. I do not believe it is the majority though.

For me PQ goes hand in hand with presentation. I mean that it is one of the factors of presentation, whilst a grade is a grade and is more of a quantitative measure of a comic.

At my level of collecting I am mostly happy when I get a book in w or w/ow rather than insisting on it and chasing something that is qualitative  so therefore more subject to opinion-because $$$.

 

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6 hours ago, Cushing Fan said:

I recently upgraded one of the key books in my collection from a 6.0 with off-white pages to a 7.0 with off-white to white pages. I passed on a 6.5 with white pages. I'm happy with my decision but just curious how important page quality is to other collectors. While I would love to have all my books with white page quality, if I have the chance to move one full grade higher then I wouldn't mind dropping page quality - though I would not go lower than off-white. Other opinions?

For me, it would depend on how the comics look.  I will gladly take into my collection a less expensive book with a lower numerical grade provided it looks as nice or nicer than a more expensive example with a higher numerical grade.  Page quality is just a part of overall eye appeal, but many times comics with snow white interior pages also have superior white, unyellowed cover stock and rich cover inks as well.

 

Edited by namisgr

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18 hours ago, namisgr said:

For me, it would depend on how the comics look.  I will gladly take into my collection a less expensive book with a lower numerical grade provided it looks as nice or nicer than a more expensive example with a higher numerical grade.  Page quality is just a part of overall eye appeal, but many times comics with snow white interior pages also have superior white, unyellowed cover stock and rich cover inks as well.

 

I'll take a light cream page with white cover stock over a white pager with tanned cover stock ANY day. Another concern wth me is if the book really does have white pages, or if it just says that on the label. One reason that the argument of wheter WP adds to a book's value continues is that, while slabbed, it really is a moot point..... why pay more for something that has been effectively impeded from an objective reality ? GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

Edited by jimjum12

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I am strickly White pages for the most part.  I will make an exception if getting white pages is almost damn near impossible.

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3 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

One reason that the argument of wheter WP adds to a books value continues is that while slabbed, it really is a moot point..... why pay more for something that has been effectively impeded from an objective reality ? GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

You could save a lot of money then, James, and collect slabbed covers.   :wink: 

While of course you can't see interiors through a slab to confirm or refute a page quality grade, there are additional clues if you know the collection a book came from.  You know when buying a slabbed Curator or Suscha News or Rocky Mountain pedigree book that it's extremely likely to have gorgeous pages.  The same can be said buying slabbed books from a collection that a dealer had encapsulated - you can ask the dealer about the overall paper preservation of the collection, and look at unslabbed examples from the collection. 

 

Edited by namisgr

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I'm OK with OW/W for most books older than the mid-70s.  Anything more recent up to modern, I like W pages.  It would be an exception for me if I buy anything with lower PQ in any era.  Brittle and [strictly] cream pages are deal breakers for me.  Once again, I'll make an exception every now and then depending on the book (i.e. my only cream books is a copy of Worlds Finest #2 in cream-O/W, but the cover is very bright).

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I only buy books that are extremely rare and brittle!! Classic cover preferred. Not slightly brittle...brittle!! and I make sure there are several flakes in the slab before purchase this way i know it’s at least somewhat accurate. Next i will wait for hundreds of years as the book cracks entirely into many small pieces within the slab. This way i will have a MOSAIC of the once original book. A 1/1 Mosaic Masterpeice stuck within the slab to be preserved for the rest of eternity!!!! ?

On a serious note i second Jacks notion of depends on how rare the book is. Presentation is also a factor. If I haven’t seen one for sale and it’s on my want list I will take a stab at it. Maybe upgrade someday if the opportunity presents itself. Btw this ONLY applies to rare Golden Age books. If it’s a silver age book and has brittle anywhere near it I would pass as I know the opportunities to pick up a nicer PQ are always right around the corner.

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On 9/1/2018 at 1:09 PM, Cushing Fan said:

I recently upgraded one of the key books in my collection from a 6.0 with off-white pages to a 7.0 with off-white to white pages. I passed on a 6.5 with white pages. I'm happy with my decision but just curious how important page quality is to other collectors. While I would love to have all my books with white page quality, if I have the chance to move one full grade higher then I wouldn't mind dropping page quality - though I would not go lower than off-white. Other opinions?

The key to me more than "white" is "fresh": in some cases the page quality could be very good even if the paper looks a bit darker than expected.
But yes, in general "white" coincides with "fresh". What I will always avoid like plague is brittleness (especially true brittleness, which results in a costant risk of the book "falling apart" or missing bits and pieces).

So: yes, I will always favor a lower grade better preserved and with whiter pages. I have a pair of books looking nice with bad PQ, but I paid for them accordingly and it was in the past.
I should add that I keep the books in my collection freed, not slabbed. I see professional grading useful for the market, but not if I have to keep and read/enjoy my material (this goes for everything printed, not just comics).

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On 9/1/2018 at 2:44 PM, WoWitHurts said:

I almost buy exclusively books with white pages. Some books are just impossible to get in White and sometimes for me if I get a great deal on the book I will buy a lesser PQ. I accidently bought a cream to off-white once and am still irritated at it.

Well, not every "CROW" books is consistent in page color. In some cases it’s not so dark at all, and for rare/scarce books, it’s perfectly acceptable, IMO. If there is no proper brittleness, that is. :)

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On 1/10/2018 at 5:28 AM, jimjum12 said:

I'll take a light cream page with white cover stock over a white pager with tanned cover stock ANY day. Another concern wth me is if the book really does have white pages, or if it just says that on the label. One reason that the argument of wheter WP adds to a book's value continues is that, while slabbed, it really is a moot point..... why pay more for something that has been effectively impeded from an objective reality ? GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

The absolute deal breaker for me is tanned cover stock along the spine.  When buying SA off ebay it is the number one thing I look for.  I am hesitant to buy any book that does not have the inside front cover open among the images.  

As an aside, I wonder what causes the phenomena of tanned pages but really nice cover stock as opposed to the tanned cover but nice interior.  From my own personal experience, I saw the former happen when I pulled my copper age books out of storage after about 20 years.  They were kept in a cool dark place inside a closet, but the bags and boards were never changed.  As a result, the pages on the 75 cent / dollar issues were yellowed / slightly tanned, but the covers remained excellent.  

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8 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

The absolute deal breaker for me is tanned cover stock along the spine.  When buying SA off ebay it is the number one thing I look for.  I am hesitant to buy any book that does not have the inside front cover open among the images.  

As an aside, I wonder what causes the phenomena of tanned pages but really nice cover stock as opposed to the tanned cover but nice interior.  From my own personal experience, I saw the former happen when I pulled my copper age books out of storage after about 20 years.  They were kept in a cool dark place inside a closet, but the bags and boards were never changed.  As a result, the pages on the 75 cent / dollar issues were yellowed / slightly tanned, but the covers remained excellent.  

I've wondered about the tanned page color of books from the 1980s that were stored in a cool dry basement for similar amount of time.
My New Teen Titans and Daredevil comics from the early 80s have nice bright covers, but many have the tanned pages.
I kinda think they might have been using really poor quality newsprint in the 80s. I'll often look at an early 70s book and the pages are typically whiter than 
the 80s books in similar condition.

what do you mean when you say : ...but the bags and boards were never changed. 
As a result, the pages on the 75 cent / dollar issues were yellowed / slightly tanned, but the covers remained excellent.

What do you reckon accounts for that ? 

JL  

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31 minutes ago, Jack Linguini said:

I've wondered about the tanned page color of books from the 1980s that were stored in a cool dry basement for similar amount of time.
My New Teen Titans and Daredevil comics from the early 80s have nice bright covers, but many have the tanned pages.
I kinda think they might have been using really poor quality newsprint in the 80s. I'll often look at an early 70s book and the pages are typically whiter than 
the 80s books in similar condition.

what do you mean when you say : ...but the bags and boards were never changed. 
As a result, the pages on the 75 cent / dollar issues were yellowed / slightly tanned, but the covers remained excellent.

What do you reckon accounts for that ?

JL

You're right on the money with the poor quality paper stock. They were desperately trying to keep cover prices down, but obviously knew what was going on because they were rolling out the Baxter lines at the time with "better" paper quality at a higher price. A lot of that stock was cleverly used with more deluxe reprint books (higher margins) and the more sophisticated projects that were geared towards an older reader with presumably more disposable income. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

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So here is another question regarding page quality - should CGC encapsulated books be broken out and encapsulated again after so many years or could they stay encapsulated forever with no ill effects?

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11 hours ago, Cushing Fan said:

So here is another question regarding page quality - should CGC encapsulated books be broken out and encapsulated again after so many years or could they stay encapsulated forever with no ill effects?

There was another thread that discussed this in length. IMO, keeping your slabbed comics in a favorable environment is the most important factor. Some argued to reslab to get fresh micro chamber paper. Others argued the MC paper can last decades. From personal experience, I have cracked open 15 years+ slabs and noticed no ill effect on either the PQ of the book or the MC paper. 

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23 hours ago, Jack Linguini said:

I've wondered about the tanned page color of books from the 1980s that were stored in a cool dry basement for similar amount of time.
My New Teen Titans and Daredevil comics from the early 80s have nice bright covers, but many have the tanned pages.
I kinda think they might have been using really poor quality newsprint in the 80s. I'll often look at an early 70s book and the pages are typically whiter than 
the 80s books in similar condition.

what do you mean when you say : ...but the bags and boards were never changed. 
As a result, the pages on the 75 cent / dollar issues were yellowed / slightly tanned, but the covers remained excellent.

What do you reckon accounts for that ? 

JL  

I guess the conclusion I can make is this:

In the 60's and 70's, cover stock was lower and paper stock was higher, which is why it is not uncommon to see tanned covers with relatively white supple pages.  However, by the mid 80's, cover stock improved but the interior paper quality was lowered, resulting in nice white glossy covers but tanned pages.

I thought the fact I never changed the bags and boards on the non-baxter  75 cent / dollar issues might have been the main reason for the tanned interiors.  I guess the covers were more resistant though.

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Good question -- I normally stick to WHITE pages for ALL 9.8 graded books I have, anything else is just an eye sore --- but for lower grade books specifically older books I was satisfied with OW/W page quality but have picked up some OW silver age books that I couldn't pass up due to the price point years and years ago!  FFWD to today and glad I pulled that trigger -- just depends on the collector I guess but I did read an article that did a study on this question and it was prove that page quality DOES NOT matter as far as the sales price according to the study and the CGC census sales it recorded. 

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