PGM Spawn #200 1:50 retailer incentive 0

[Spawn1709]

I apologize for uploading the terrible quality photos. Anyways, let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[James J Johnson]

The only visible flaw I can see is the wing on the bottom of the spine (a production micro-tear), visible on the back cover image. While I might allow for that in 9.8 on an otherwise flawless Bronze age book, or older, I wouldn't grade any modern era book 9.8 if any flaw at all was visible on a scan, so 9.6.

Edited January 18, 2018 by James J Johnson

[Spawn1709]

16 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

The only visible flaw I can see is the wing on the bottom of the spine (a production micro-tear), visible on the back cover image. While I might allow for that in 9.8 on an otherwise flawless Bronze age book, or older, I wouldn't grade any modern era book 9.8 if any flaw at all was visible on a scan, so 9.6.

Thanks for the opinion! I bought it on eBay and the guy advertised it as Near Mint, so I just want to make sure. That corner tear that you mentioned really does bother me.

Anyone else? Opinions are free and are really helpful!

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Spawn1709

[Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice]

a production micro tear.....luv it......so that's what that  is.....whenever i go thru stacks of new comics at da local shop i always go thru about 4 books before i can find 1 that doesn't have that production micro tear..........It makes a big difference a 9.8 to 9.6 ......so a word 2 da wise never ever just take da 1st book in front of u off the rack. Take your time and choose da best looking 1 ....like I do.

p.s. i imagine most people on these boards r not still active collector's like I am.... Cause it's all about Key's and Upgrading and not about Comic Book Runs.

[Spawn1709]

2 hours ago, Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice said:

a production micro tear.....luv it......so that's what that  is.....whenever i go thru stacks of new comics at da local shop i always go thru about 4 books before i can find 1 that doesn't have that production micro tear..........It makes a big difference a 9.8 to 9.6 ......so a word 2 da wise never ever just take da 1st book in front of u off the rack. Take your time and choose da best looking 1 ....like I do.

p.s. i imagine most people on these boards r not still active collector's like I am.... Cause it's all about Key's and Upgrading and not about Comic Book Runs.

I didn't buy this off the rack. I bought it on eBay about a week ago. This issue came out in 2011. 

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice said:

a production micro tear.....luv it......so that's what that  is.....whenever i go thru stacks of new comics at da local shop i always go thru about 4 books before i can find 1 that doesn't have that production micro tear..........It makes a big difference a 9.8 to 9.6 ......so a word 2 da wise never ever just take da 1st book in front of u off the rack. Take your time and choose da best looking 1 ....like I do.

p.s. i imagine most people on these boards r not still active collector's like I am.... Cause it's all about Key's and Upgrading and not about Comic Book Runs.

Very common because of the way the comics are assembled/folded. Too much tension on the arms that fold it, too much spring tension and ripppppppp, there goes the the bottom or top corner, the arm pulling through the ends of the paper in the folding process. Golden age books really suffer from this production defect as the newsprint quality pulp-paper was more susceptible than modern comics to the folding blades, the tension having to be tighter to fold 17 leaves instead of way less as the years of production progressed and the number of leaves gradually diminished.

It was almost standard practice among dealers/collectors of yesteryear to close those tears with glue or rice paper or wheat paste and get a pass from the hobby at large because resto wasn't such a huge value-lessening consideration at the time.

One upper echelon dealer did this to the Mile Highs that passed through his hands, many of them superkeys. Acceptable then, now sacrilege by today's mindset.  

[Spawn1709]

4 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Very common because of the way the comics are assembled/folded. Too much tension on the arms that fold it, too much spring tension and ripppppppp, there goes the the bottom or top corner, the arm pulling through the ends of the paper in the folding process. Golden age books really suffer from this production defect as the newsprint quality pulp-paper was more susceptible than modern comics to the folding blades, the tension having to be tighter to fold 17 leaves instead of way less as the years of production progressed and the number of leaves gradually diminished.

It was almost standard practice among dealers/collectors of yesteryear to close those tears with glue or rice paper or wheat paste and get a pass from the hobby at large because resto wasn't such a huge value-lessening consideration at the time.

One upper echelon dealer did this to the Mile Highs that passed through his hands, many of them superkeys. Acceptable then, now sacrilege by today's mindset.  

 It's not that bad, but I know CGC can be picky, especially when it comes to 9.8's. Do you think I have a shot at 9.8?

[James J Johnson]

Just now, Spawn1709 said:

 It's not that bad, but I know CGC can be picky, especially when it comes to 9.8's. Do you think I have a shot at 9.8?

Always a shot with a book this nice. I would never grade it 9.8 with that production tear, but I've seen CGC 9.8s with it. Since it's a production flaw, I can see the CGC giving it a 9.8 just as easily as them going 9.6 because of it, which is what I would do. I tend to deduct for production flaws that actually damaged a book as did this. I think it'll slab 9.6, but I won't be too surprised at 9.8 because I've seen it and understand their logic.

[Spawn1709]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

Always a shot with a book this nice. I would never grade it 9.8 with that production tear, but I've seen CGC 9.8s with it. Since it's a production flaw, I can see the CGC giving it a 9.8 just as easily as them going 9.6 because of it, which is what I would do. I tend to deduct for production flaws that actually damaged a book as did this. I think it'll slab 9.6, but I won't be too surprised at 9.8 because I've seen it and understand their logic.

Thanks James! 

[Spawn1709]

Just found two marks on the comic that might affect the grade. The one in the first picture is 1/16th of an inch while the one in the second picture is 1/8th of an inch. They look like they can be pressed out but I just want some thoughts. I'm kind of scared that the first one might be colour breaking. They were taken directly underneath a lamp to help show them clearer. Thanks again for all the responses I've been getting. 

[newshane]

I own this book in CGC 9.8.

These were triple-sized issues, so the "micro-tear" was a common production flaw due to the heft of the book. I don't think that CGC penalizes this flaw unless a small chip or flake works its way off the edge. Based on lots of experience (I own several hundred modern 9.8s, many of them with this flaw), it is my opinion that the micro-tear alone wouldn't keep the book from obtaining a 9.8 grade.

As for the recent pictures, while they are about as good as pictures can get, I don't personally feel comfortable guaranteeing a 9.8 book in this situation. I'd have to have a careful look at the book with my own hands and eyes. I can't call the first one, because I can't really see it clearly enough. If it doesn't break color, it's not a real threat to the 9.8 grade, especially with a professional pressing. I think I can spot the flaw you're trying to show in the second picture. Looks a lot smaller than the dimension you gave. At any rate, it's relatively small beans if the rest of the book is clean.

DISCLAIMER: CGC has been super, super tough (almost unfairly so) on 9.8 moderns lately. They seem to be very unforgiving. That's a risk you have to consider nowadays.

I'd feel comfortable saying that the grader did a good job grading the book as a NM. You got what you paid for. A 9.8 might be a different story. It's just to hard to say here with certainty. I don't see anything that would knock the book below a 9.4. The best wild guess that I can give you is 9.6, erring on the side of caution due to the recent flaws you uncovered. But the micro-tear? Not a big deal, unless CGC has radically changed their stance on this, which I seriously doubt.

 

[newshane]

13 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

One upper echelon dealer did this to the Mile Highs that passed through his hands, many of them superkeys.

Edited January 19, 2018 by newshane

[Spawn1709]

2 hours ago, newshane said:

I own this book in CGC 9.8.

These were triple-sized issues, so the "micro-tear" was a common production flaw due to the heft of the book. I don't think that CGC penalizes this flaw unless a small chip or flake works its way off the edge. Based on lots of experience (I own several hundred modern 9.8s, many of them with this flaw), it is my opinion that the micro-tear alone wouldn't keep the book from obtaining a 9.8 grade.

As for the recent pictures, while they are about as good as pictures can get, I don't personally feel comfortable guaranteeing a 9.8 book in this situation. I'd have to have a careful look at the book with my own hands and eyes. I can't call the first one, because I can't really see it clearly enough. If it doesn't break color, it's not a real threat to the 9.8 grade, especially with a professional pressing. I think I can spot the flaw you're trying to show in the second picture. Looks a lot smaller than the dimension you gave. At any rate, it's relatively small beans if the rest of the book is clean.

DISCLAIMER: CGC has been super, super tough (almost unfairly so) on 9.8 moderns lately. They seem to be very unforgiving. That's a risk you have to consider nowadays.

I'd feel comfortable saying that the grader did a good job grading the book as a NM. You got what you paid for. A 9.8 might be a different story. It's just to hard to say here with certainty. I don't see anything that would knock the book below a 9.4. The best wild guess that I can give you is 9.6, erring on the side of caution due to the recent flaws you uncovered. But the micro-tear? Not a big deal, unless CGC has radically changed their stance on this, which I seriously doubt.

 

Thanks Newshane! Glad to see some advice from a fellow Spawn collector  

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, newshane said:

Didn't hurt the value though. They graded blue. Not by a mistake. Nobody "put one past" the CGC with these Church copies. The CGC's stance on it is that a book with glue and/or color touch, typically a golden age book, can, on occasion, be slabbed with a  blue label. Although not common hobby general knowledge that most hobbyists are aware of, it certainly isn't a secret or "against the rules". 

From the back of the CGC Universal label (1st version), 1999:

'At the sole discretion of CGC, very minor color touch or glue may be assigned a marked and color coded "Universal" label, however a description of the detected restoration, in general, or in specific terms, will be disclosed.'

[Spawn1709]

If it is a colour breaking mark in the third picture uploaded, how much will that affect the grade? I used a magnifying glass to get a better look at it and I think it might be. 

[Alf Pogs]

I would just buy a 9.8 of this issue if that is what you have your heart set on. Would you want this book in a 9.4 case with that corner hang nail taunting your every waking moment?  Especially after you paid for shipping back and forth? I am assuming this book is everywhere. Print run anybody? Please let me know if I am wrong.  

[newshane]

2 minutes ago, Alf Pogs said:

I am assuming this book is everywhere. Print run anybody? Please let me know if I am wrong.  

Common assumption where Spawn comics are concerned. This particular variant was a 1:50 release. There was a spike in sales for issue 200 because it was a "landmark" issue with several variants. While it isn't the rarest Spawn book by a long-shot, this book is far from ubiquitous in the marketplace. I seriously doubt your local comic shop has a copy that nice. You CAN currently find two 9.8 copies on eBay, from $180 to $230.

[newshane]

Alf, I will say that your point is well taken. But if he got a deal on it raw, it might be worth getting it graded if it has a shot at 9.8.

[Alf Pogs]

1 minute ago, newshane said:

Common assumption where Spawn comics are concerned. This particular variant was a 1:50 release. There was a spike in sales for issue 200 because it was a "landmark" issue with several variants. While it isn't the rarest Spawn book by a long-shot, this book is far from ubiquitous in the marketplace. I seriously doubt your local comic shop has a copy that nice. You CAN currently find two 9.8 copies on eBay, from $180 to $230.

Thanks Shane! I'll keep an eye out for it. OP should jump on that $180 then. 

[Alf Pogs]

1 minute ago, newshane said:

Alf, I will say that your point is well taken. But if he got a deal on it raw, it might be worth getting it graded if it has a shot at 9.8.

OP is it for your collection or flip?