RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said: I hope this isn't Stu....it may be a long couple of days........ It is. Whenever you see "Coinees" expressed in derogatory terms, it's him (I assume it's a "him." Never met.) And people wonder why he was banned, with such a delightful way of expressing his contempt with people and ideas he can't tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: Correct. And yet...they exist, apparently, because that's how NGC graded them. No one requires you to care about coins. The discussion isn't about coins. It's about a concept, which is universal, which McKnowitall already stated: Thus endeth the lesson. So you quote me out of context and toss in McKnowitall's blatantly obvious "Human nature to seek assurance is the same", then act like you've done us all a great service? Bra-vo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, mattn792 said: So you quote me out of context and toss in McKnowitall's blatantly obvious "Human nature to seek assurance is the same", then act like you've done us all a great service? Bra-vo What part was taken out of context? The rest of your post was about how you didn't care about coins. I acknowledged that in the third sentence of my response. "Taking something out of context" means removing it from the situation in which it can be properly understood, not merely leaving out the whole quote. If your point is intact...and it is....it hasn't been "taken out of context." Who is "us"...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: What part was taken out of context? The rest of your post was about how you didn't care about coins. I acknowledged that in the third sentence of my response (also out of context, no one reading your post in a vacuum knows that I spelled out how and why I can't spot the differences because it isn't my purview). "Taking something out of context" means removing it from the situation in which it can be properly understood, not merely leaving out the whole quote. If your point is intact...and it is....it hasn't been "taken out of context." Except that is precisely what you did since boiling down my response to "No" could lead to multiple interpretations of why I cant spot them. Who is "us"...? You're posting in an open forum, don't pretend you are this obtuse. Logan510 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Mcknowitall Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Setting aside my blatantly obvious words, I do have a question. Hypothetical (maybe not), concerning the existence of a 4PG, and the possible value to a comics collecting community. You have an encapsulated comic. A 3PG grades it a 9. It has Newton Rings. You send it back. It is encapsulated again, with the same grade...a 9. It has the Newton Rings. The 3PG states it is normal. You send it to a 4PG. The 4PG does not sticker it with a "green", which would be agreement with the stated grade. You call the 4PG to discuss it (the existing "coin" 4PG will do so), and the 4PG explains to you there is a possible contamination issue, because of newton rings, and eye appeal is significantly reduced because of the Newton Rings. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, mattn792 said: 6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: What part was taken out of context? The rest of your post was about how you didn't care about coins. I acknowledged that in the third sentence of my response (also out of context, no one reading your post in a vacuum knows that I spelled out how and why I can't spot the differences because it isn't my purview). "Taking something out of context" means removing it from the situation in which it can be properly understood, not merely leaving out the whole quote. If your point is intact...and it is....it hasn't been "taken out of context." Except that is precisely what you did since boiling down my response to "No" could lead to multiple interpretations of why I cant spot them. Who is "us"...? You're posting in an open forum, don't pretend you are this obtuse. Quoting properly is a pain in the rear, admittedly, but it's not impossible. I'm not going to get into an argument with you about these irrelevant side details. Your expertise, or lack thereof, with regard to coins, and WHY, isn't remotely at issue. It's not a commentary on your skill. *I* can't tell the difference, EITHER. No one can. That's the point. Anyone reading can easily follow the conversation. It's hardly heavy exposition. You don't speak for anyone but you. Using "us" or "we" to shore up your point is presumptuous. Edited August 28, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said: Setting aside my blatantly obvious words, I do have a question. Hypothetical (maybe not), concerning the existence of a 4PG, and the possible value to a comics collecting community. You have an encapsulated comic. A 3PG grades it a 9. It has Newton Rings. You send it back. It is encapsulated again, with the same grade...a 9. It has the Newton Rings. The 3PG states it is normal. You send it to a 4PG. The 4PG does not sticker it with a "green", which would be agreement with the stated grade. You call the 4PG to discuss it (the existing "coin" 4PG will do so), and the 4PG explains to you there is a possible contamination issue, because of newton rings, and eye appeal is significantly reduced because of the Newton Rings. What would you do? I don't think Newton rings...as much of a problem as they are...are, or should be, part of the equation. They're looking at the book, not the holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I like pie Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: I don't think Newton rings...as much of a problem as they are...are, or should be, part of the equation. They're looking at the book, not the holder. If you can see the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 If Newton rings are enough of a roadblock to prevent the accurate assessment of the appearance of the book (and I don't think they are...I've got about 1500 of the new slabs...but admittedly, it's a case by case basis), then there's a case for that issue being dealt with and put to rest, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Mcknowitall Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: I don't think Newton rings...as much of a problem as they are...are, or should be, part of the equation. They're looking at the book, not the holder. That is the problem. The book can't be evaluated clearly for eye appeal, due to the Rings, and note that I stated "possible contamination....because of newton rings". This is the essence of 4PG grading. Book doctoring? AT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Mcknowitall Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, I like pie said: If you can see the book Yes. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said: Setting aside my blatantly obvious words, I do have a question. Hypothetical (maybe not), concerning the existence of a 4PG, and the possible value to a comics collecting community. You have an encapsulated comic. A 3PG grades it a 9. It has Newton Rings. You send it back. It is encapsulated again, with the same grade...a 9. It has the Newton Rings. The 3PG states it is normal. You send it to a 4PG. The 4PG does not sticker it with a "green", which would be agreement with the stated grade. You call the 4PG to discuss it (the existing "coin" 4PG will do so), and the 4PG explains to you there is a possible contamination issue, because of newton rings, and eye appeal is significantly reduced because of the Newton Rings. What would you do? Call Ghostbusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, Mr.Mcknowitall said: That is the problem. The book can't be evaluated clearly for eye appeal, due to the Rings, and note that I stated "possible contamination....because of newton rings". This is the essence of 4PG grading. Book doctoring? AT? I don't know that the analogy necessarily follows, but I certainly acknowledge the issue. Having lots of slabs with newton rings, I don't have a problem seeing the books, when viewing the book from multiple angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Mcknowitall Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said: If Newton rings are enough of a roadblock to prevent the accurate assessment of the appearance of the book (and I don't think they are...I've got about 1500 of the new slabs...but admittedly, it's a case by case basis), then there's a case for that issue being dealt with and put to rest, for sure. What if scientific analysis indicates a contamination caused by the rings, that leaves a microscopic residue because of the breakdown of the composition of the encapsulation, or a seal failure caused by improper sonic sealing and that allowed airborne contamination of the encapsulation? Remember, what the 4PG is being asked to do, and the 4PG is making a market, i.e. an offer to buy that which has been 4PG assessed as a green or gold sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 4 hours ago, jason4 said: Wait so what happens if you give them a “weak” 9.8? You get a turd sticker on your slab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, Get Marwood & I said: 4 hours ago, jason4 said: Wait so what happens if you give them a “weak” 9.8? You get a turd sticker on your slab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said: What if scientific analysis indicates a contamination caused by the rings, that leaves a microscopic residue because of the breakdown of the composition of the encapsulation, or a seal failure caused by improper sonic sealing and that allowed airborne contamination of the encapsulation? Remember, what the 4PG is being asked to do, and the 4PG is making a market, i.e. an offer to buy that which has been 4PG assessed as a green or gold sticker. I'm not a plastics expert (and I think this has been discussed at great length by those who are), so I can't speak to the effect the direct contact between the inner well and the outer case (the cause of the rings) has, but they're all third parties. As far as the "making the market" goes, I'm not familiar with the CVA business model. CAC was founded by the aforementioned John Albanese, the founder of NGC, who had financial backing to put teeth to his assessment. I suspect that CVA is not in a position to be able to "buy back" those books with a CVA sticker that didn't deserve it. But I don't know. Got any info on that? Edited August 28, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Mcknowitall Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: I don't know that the analogy necessarily follows, but I certainly acknowledge the issue. Having lots of slabs with newton rings, I don't have a problem seeing the books, when viewing the book from multiple angles. However, you do not know if microscopic residue is on the book, due to contamination resulting from the cause of the Newton Rings. The closest analogy I can present is AT, because it is a chemical alteration that is difficult to detect, very difficult ins some cases, that over time deteriorates and has a negative eye appeal result. There is an assumption that the rings are a stable issue, yet the cause of the rings is not settled at all, and the quantity clarity of the rings varies quite a bit. Yes, I want a 4pg opinion, considering the 3PG states it is normal and there are alternative reasons for the rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 @Ditch Fahrenheit You have any information on the potential for damage through the inner well by newton rings...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said: Yes, I want a 4pg opinion, considering the 3PG states it is normal and there are alternative reasons for the rings. All other issues aside, I don't think anyone is going to be able to determine if there's damage from the newton rings over time through the inner well and outer case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
