GRADE BACK FF 12 (this most likely will be at CGC soon) 2 2

[mdean2437]

CGC 5.0  I am not sure if Joey did the Constanza or not.

Here  are the grader notes 

chews left bottom of front cover
light wear all corners front cover breaks color
readers crease front cover breaks color
small tear right top of front cover
small, multiple stain back cover

 

 

I am not trying to flood the board per the rules, I just think it's fun trying to grade other porles books. It is also nice to see what they come back as.  I Hope to send this off to be cleaned, pressed, and then graded next week. Should know in 3-4 weeks. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by mdean2437

[Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice]

I like 2 play guess the grade ....  will look at it in length at some time later

[Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice]

5.0

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice said:

5.0

I agree, but this book has enormous$ potential. There's enough of a roll that it's a prime candidate for the "Costanza spine realignment therapy" treatment. If this book were opened to the centerfold and pressed flat, thus no longer having a spine as it's just unfolded leafs of paper, it could be refolded then pressed, positioned with a new spine fold created right where that flake line is immediately to the right of the staples. That would place the flake line right on the spine, thereby eliminating most flaws from front cover view, the wear seen now shifted to the back cover just to the left of the spine! There have been many books given this treatment and it's not considered resto so always yields a blue label (from all that I've seen). This FF 12 is reminiscent of one in particular that I saw graded 5.0 that was Constanzaed up to either 7.0 or 7.5, a sizable jump in $ value for a relatively minor procedure. This book is the perfect candidate for that procedure and the risk is very low.

[mdean2437]

36 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

I agree, but this book has enormous$ potential. There's enough of a roll that it's a prime candidate for the "Costanza spine realignment therapy" treatment. If this book were opened to the centerfold and pressed flat, thus no longer having a spine as it's just unfolded leafs of paper, it could be refolded then pressed, positioned with a new spine fold created right where that flake line is immediately to the right of the staples. That would place the flake line right on the spine, thereby eliminating most flaws from front cover view, the wear seen now shifted to the back cover just to the left of the spine! There have been many books given this treatment and it's not considered resto so always yields a blue label (from all that I've seen). This FF 12 is reminiscent of one in particular that I saw graded 5.0 that was Constanzaed up to either 7.0 or 7.5, a sizable jump in $ value for a relatively minor procedure. This book is the perfect candidate for that procedure and the risk is very low.

Constanzaed?  What is this and who does it. I am getting way too excited.....

 

If it hit a 7.0 r higher it would become a permanent part of my collection.  

Thank you for the information.

[Point Five]

Lovely book and the color strike is awesome, but there's a small gnawed area on the bottom FC edge, and a faint stain top of BC cover. I'd guess 4.5, maybe 5.0 with press and clean. The eye appeal is great, but I don't see the technical grade jumping much higher.

 

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, mdean2437 said:

Constanzaed?  What is this and who does it. I am getting way too excited.....

 

If it hit a 7.0 r higher it would become a permanent part of my collection.  

Thank you for the information.

To the best of my knowledge, although the CGC doesn't consider this type of press that literally creates a new spine, a spine being nothing more than where the leaves are folded, their pressing service does not offer this type of press, but I may be wrong and possibly just haven't heard of any instances of CGC pressing doing this more radical type of pressing.

I do know that there are sellers who do this that also are very adept at all phases of restoration, even though I must once again stress that this press does not garner a purple or green label.

I am not aware of any of the sellers who do this being, at present, in the resto business.

That stated, it's not that difficult a fix. Anyone with a heat press could do this. The book is opened to the centerfold, pressed flat, the spine now gone as the pages are not folded into book form. Then a fold is carefully worked by hand folding a spine in the new position, in this case the new fold at the edge of the spine being the flake line immediately to the right of the staples (the staples will now be on the back cover when the new spine fold is established), and then the fold is first flattened by hand and then further flattened by the heat press. If done deftly, the staples do not have to be removed. In this case, the staple placement is ideal that you will likely not loosen their grip on the paper and pull or show any more wear than the paper surrounding them does now.

Now , that "spine wear" on the front cover will all be shifted to the back cover near the spine, the wear still there, but not as evident from the front! "Costanza", it is done!

Someone like Joey Post here could do this beautifully in his sleep if you have qualms about do-it-yourselfing it.

[Point Five]

In honesty, I wouldn’t recommend the described technique. Most of the examples of this had their pages peeking out along the right edge, i.e. the ‘shifting’ had altered their structures significantly and for the worse. This book has bang-on centering and a very nice natural structure. I’d leave it as is.

 

[Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice]

My Brain Hurts......I feel like a Monty Python skit....

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, Point Five said:

In honesty, I wouldn’t recommend the described technique. Most of the examples of this had their pages peeking out along the right edge, i.e. the ‘shifting’ had altered their structures significantly and for the worse. This book has bang-on centering and a very nice natural structure. I’d leave it as is.

 

That's a very good point, and I've already considered it, But.................................

This book has shifted pages to the rear, the result of a "flat" spine roll. The re-fold I describe, the fold realigned with the new spine edge to the right of the staples, along that main flake line would yield a stunning success on this book because the offset of pages you mention would be perfectly counterbalanced by the amount of spine shift in hat realignment I suggested at that point I mentioned! Trust me, I think of everything and would never suggest a book get the West Coast Costanza treatment if the front and back covers wouldn't line up flush, as produced, with the inside pages in a logical place!    Most of the books that underwent that treatment were not rolled like this so a counterbalance was not a practicality and they wound up having that undesireable effect you referred to. This one is off-set perfectly for it!

Edited February 1, 2018 by James J Johnson

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice said:

My Brain Hurts......I feel like a Monty Python skit....

Not Monty Python. Monty Constanza. West Coast, baby! 

[1950's war comics]

Haha Costanza technique..

Nice key that i hope you get a CGC 4.5 or better...

[Old Fashion PB and J]

5.5 water stain will always keep it down

[fishbone]

I want to say 6.0 after the press, but that may be a stretch to far .... good luck

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, fishbone said:

I want to say 6.0 after the press, but that may be a stretch to far .... good luck

Not a stretch at all with the type of press I mentioned. Technically, it still wouldn't be better than 5.0, those many defects/stresses/vertical creases-flake lines would remain unimproved by a press as they all break color, but the realigning press would make most of them far less visible as their position would be advantageous to concealment. 6.0 and maybe a bit more is possible. I've seen it on books with the West Coast Costanza treatment that were initially slabbed 5.0 and got a bump up as high as 7.0 by creative placement of a new spine. However, those had that odd-looking back cover roll effect, where the pages fan out inversely because the realignment was not a corrective measure to balance the offset this FF 12 has!

[Bomber-Bob]

27 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Not a stretch at all with the type of press I mentioned. Technically, it still wouldn't be better than 5.0, those many defects/stresses/vertical creases-flake lines would remain unimproved by a press as they all break color, but the realigning press would make most of them far less visible as their position would be advantageous to concealment. 6.0 and maybe a bit more is possible. I've seen it on books with the West Coast Costanza treatment that were initially slabbed 5.0 and got a bump up as high as 7.0 by creative placement of a new spine. However, those had that odd-looking back cover roll effect, where the pages fan out inversely because the realignment was not a corrective measure to balance the offset this FF 12 has!

I'm sorry but I think the spine realignment technique should only be employed to fix gross spine rolls. I don't think it should be used here, to simply move the spine creases onto the vertex or back cover. Supposedly, CGC now looks for this and, though they don't give a Purple Label, they will downgrade for the creases no matter where the location. I think CGC caught a big backlash from the original 'Constanza' episode and learned from it. Thankfully we don't see this process used as much anymore and I am glad CCS does not offer the service. You mentioned Joey, and though I may be wrong, I don't think he offers it either. Even though you paint a picture of an easy process, I think it is very dangerous, with potential for spine splits, staple pops, staple tears, etc.  If not done properly, the memory of the old crease will come back. Even if it's done correctly it usually looks terrible. I personally avoid any books that I suspect may have had this process done. I've enjoyed your informative posts to date but I must say I am disappointed with this suggestion. It is not something a collector or hobbyist  wants to see going on. Sorry.  

[Bomber-Bob]

I see a long vertical reader's crease along the spine. I see a very stressed upper staple with a decent size tear. I see a tear on the top edge of the FC. I see a piece missing along the bottom edge of the FC.  I see numerous color breaking creases and stains on the FC. Going to the BC, I am not sure what's going on with that white stripe at the top. It may be glue from a tear seal ? As is, it's a 5.0 at best. Maybe with a press and dry clean you can squeak out a 5.5 . I just can't see this book ever getting to 6.0 range. If that's a tear seal on the back then you have a Purple outcome. 

[Bomber-Bob]

23 hours ago, mdean2437 said:

Constanzaed?  What is this and who does it. I am getting way too excited.....

 

If it hit a 7.0 r higher it would become a permanent part of my collection.  

Thank you for the information.

Don't get too excited. It's not magic and you may not like the look of the book afterward. I would never get this done. Here is a before and after Constanza example. Note the way the right edge will look...

 

[mdean2437]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I see a long vertical reader's crease along the spine. I see a very stressed upper staple with a decent size tear. I see a tear on the top edge of the FC. I see a piece missing along the bottom edge of the FC.  I see numerous color breaking creases and stains on the FC. Going to the BC, I am not sure what's going on with that white stripe at the top. It may be glue from a tear seal ? As is, it's a 5.0 at best. Maybe with a press and dry clean you can squeak out a 5.5 . I just can't see this book ever getting to 6.0 range. If that's a tear seal on the back then you have a Purple outcome. 

There is no tear seal, and rice paper is to remove if there was!  I bought it from HA as unrestored. 

[James J Johnson]

4 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I'm sorry but I think the spine realignment technique should only be employed to fix gross spine rolls. I don't think it should be used here, to simply move the spine creases onto the vertex or back cover. Supposedly, CGC now looks for this and, though they don't give a Purple Label, they will downgrade for the creases no matter where the location. I think CGC caught a big backlash from the original 'Constanza' episode and learned from it. Thankfully we don't see this process used as much anymore and I am glad CCS does not offer the service. You mentioned Joey, and though I may be wrong, I don't think he offers it either. Even though you paint a picture of an easy process, I think it is very dangerous, with potential for spine splits, staple pops, staple tears, etc.  If not done properly, the memory of the old crease will come back. Even if it's done correctly it usually looks terrible. I personally avoid any books that I suspect may have had this process done. I've enjoyed your informative posts to date but I must say I am disappointed with this suggestion. It is not something a collector or hobbyist  wants to see going on. Sorry.  

That's what this is. Spine-rolled!  You know, the West Coast Costanza is nothing more that a spine roll correction technique. I also don't favor doing this to books that aren't rolled to build a new fold as the covers will suffer in the final alignment. The Costanza is perfect for rolled books, it's merely a correction, and in some cases, like this one, would be a very slight over-correction, not a gross over-correction producing that radical offset you're alluding to, which I know exactly what you mean, and no, it's too obvious and I don't care for that look either nor recommend it.

I only suggest a Costanza for spine rolled books, so the final, corrected product will result in flush or close to flush covers, aligning believably front the back.

 

What the West Coast Constaza does to books it's applied to that aren't spine rolled is to reverse spine roll them! You turn them over and the roll is now on the back! As if the book was read in inverted retrograde, from back to front and upside down, lol. That's useless as far as I'm concerned, but it did help an Avengers 1 reholder as a 9.2 from 8.5! So while not that aesthetically pleasing to the discerning hobbyist's eye, it did result in a huge value increase for the vendor who sold it and performed the Constanza.

Edited February 2, 2018 by James J Johnson