What's up with Rob Liefeld? No CGC? 4 4

[RockMyAmadeus]

The discussion isn't about "rules." The discussion isn't about "making money", nor is it about who is "behind the scenes."

The discussion is about punishing fans and users of CGC by charging them a different, higher price for the exact same service because creators think "people are making FAT STACKS!!" off their signatures.

And the only way anything changes is if customers say something. People "hitting the road" instead of saying something ends up only one way: companies going out of business. Is that the desired goal? No one can even contemplate change if they never know there's a problem.

There are a TON of people who see "signatures, $5, for CGC, $20" and, instead of the creator making $100 for the couple of minutes it takes to sign 20 books, they get $0. Instead of CGC getting 20 books submitted, they get 0.

That helps no one, and actively hurts everyone. I want to support Marv Wolfman. I care about his work, deeply. His work made a significant impact on an important time in my life. Batman #437 was the very first issue of Batman I ever bought, and HE wrote it. I would love to support him. But as long as he views me and people like me...aka "CGC people"...with contempt..and he does, and has said so...then I can't, in good conscience, support him. As long as he charges a "punishment tax" for people who want to get books slabbed, I will have to do without, even though there are books, like DC Presents #26, NTT #2, #44, etc, that, financially, are "worth doing."

I will treasure the books I got signed before he instituted his policy. But he will not see any further support from me until and unless he changes his mind.

And I am not alone.

[kevhtx]

6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

There are a TON of people who see "signatures, $5, for CGC, $20"

This is in fact a rule. Point being that people in general don't care and that's why they aren't saying anything. Or, if they do care, it's not enough to do anything about it. It's the creator's signature, so their right to do what they want. The way a customer exerts their power is with their wallet not their mouth. Complaining and protesting doesn't work. When people stop spending the money, thats when creators or business start listening.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, kevhtx said:

This is in fact a rule. Point being that people in general don't care and that's why they aren't saying anything. Or, if they do care, it's not enough to do anything about it. It's the creator's signature, so their right to do what they want. The way a customer exerts their power is with their wallet not their mouth. Complaining and protesting doesn't work. When people stop spending the money, thats when creators or business start listening.

The discussion is not about "rules." The discussion is not about about the creator's "right to do what they want."

And you are quite incorrect if you believe "people don't care" about what they are charged for services they want.

Unless you're a billionaire, and can burn $100 bills to light your cigar, then you care about your money and how it is spent.

People "aren't saying anything" not because they don't care, but because of the reasons I already stated: they don't want to be cut off, they don't want to hassle anyone, they don't want to make waves, they still think it's a fair price (and sometimes it is), but mostly, it's because most of us are addicts, and behave like addicts.

You are also quite incorrect if you think "complaining and protesting" doesn't work. See: Yelp. Are you aware of how many business take Yelp reviews seriously...?

Why do you think that is...?

The answer is because that's how businesses can get a feel for how they are doing BEFORE customers "stop spending money."

You've never run a business, have you...?

[kevhtx]

Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

The discussion is not about "rules." The discussion is not about about the creator's "right to do what they want."

And you are quite incorrect if you believe "people don't care" about what they are charged for services they want.

Unless you're a billionaire, and can burn $100 bills to light your cigar, then you care about your money and how it is spent.

People "aren't saying anything" not because they don't care, but because of the reasons I already stated: they don't want to be cut off, they don't want to hassle anyone, they don't want to make waves, they still think it's a fair price (and sometimes it is), but mostly, it's because most of us are addicts, and behave like addicts.

You are also quite incorrect if you think "complaining and protesting" doesn't work. See: Yelp. Are you aware of how many business take Yelp reviews seriously...?

Why do you think that is...?

The answer is because that's how businesses can get a feel for how they are doing BEFORE customers "stop spending money."

You've never run a business, have you...?

I in fact have run a very successful business. I dealt with clients for years running my own business. I look at the bottom line. I've worked directly with/for billionaires and millionaire entrepreneurs. I don't look at the "emotions" behind all of this. You have to look at the bottom line. It's very simple. If a creator has a "rule" that he charges an extra $20 for CGC, but he has a line outside the door. Well, your emotion doesn't really mean all that much. Until everyone puts their wallets away and doesn't get in line, that is when it would change. person_without_enough_empathying and complaining is just a bunch of noise.

[KPR Comics]

Perhaps creators see examples below and their fears that "fans" just want to profit are realized.

People attempting to make fat stacks

People making fat stacks

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, kevhtx said:

I in fact have run a very successful business. I dealt with clients for years running my own business. I look at the bottom line. I've worked directly with/for billionaires and millionaire entrepreneurs. I don't look at the "emotions" behind all of this. You have to look at the bottom line. It's very simple. If a creator has a "rule" that he charges an extra $20 for CGC, but he has a line outside the door. Well, your emotion doesn't really mean all that much. Until everyone puts their wallets away and doesn't get in line, that is when it would change. person_without_enough_empathying and complaining is just a bunch of noise.

This discussion IS about "emotions" behind all of this, which is a large part of the problem: people attempt to justify a "CGC punishment charge" by saying "won't someone PLEASE think of the CREATORS!", which is nothing more than a base appeal to emotion. 

You ARE correct when you say my emotion doesn't really mean all that much. In fact, it means nothing. 

But you need to be corrected on one point: having a line "outside the door" doesn't mean those people are all lining up to get their books slabbed. Quite the contrary. Doing informal (and definitely unscientific) surveys of people in line, I suspect that slabbing accounts for, at best, 25% of the people getting signatures. At best, mind you. The average number is probably 5-10%.

If you have run as business, as you claim, how is it that you dismiss customer feedback so casually...? How often did you deal with customers directly...?

The point where "everyone puts their wallets away and doesn't get in line" is far too late to "change" anything.

Let me say that again, because it is absolutely critical: the point at which everyone "puts their wallets away and doesn't get in line" is far, far, FAR beyond the point of no return, because you have completely alienated your customer base. You would have to start from the ground floor...or maybe even digging yourself out of the pit you've dug, which is worse...and that's a thousand times more difficult than simply listening to customer feedback and adjusting as you go. And, as any successful businessperson will tell you, trying to change after all the customers have gone away is about as effective as shutting the barn door after all the horses are out.

And lest you STILL think "complaining and protesting" doesn't accomplish anything, are you familiar with the slab "upgrade" of 2016...? What do you think resolved that issue? Everyone closing their wallet and going away?

No. People saying "this isn't acceptable." In other words..."complaining and protesting."

[kevhtx]

Sure, customer feedback can be an important tool to gauge your performance. I am sure that CGC was happy to get it, but I also bet that they saw a slight decline or something in the numbers during that quarter as well., a trend. 

As a customer, to expect something to change, you have to do more than complain and protest. That is what I am saying. You should protest with your wallet. If you want to also go tell the creator why you are not spending your money with him, sure, I think that is warranted. But, I don't think handing him money, and lecturing him on his ethics at the same time is going to do anything.

For me, I dealt with clients almost daily. They were my customers. I never said I didn't listen to them. But, you always have to look past the emotion and keep the bottom line in mind. If you can do things to satisfy them that will help the bottom line, then it should be done. A business should always do that.

The problem is that you can never make everyone happy. Thats why if you keep your focus on the bottom line and what will increase it, you will always stay on goal. If something the customer requests will increase it, then do it. But, if a customer gripes and complains, that doesn't necessarily mean that a change should be made.

[RockMyAmadeus]

10 minutes ago, KPR Comics said:

Perhaps creators see examples below and their fears that "fans" just want to profit are realized.

People attempting to make fat stacks

People making fat stacks

The first one..."attempting to make fat stacks"...has no meaning. Anybody can ask anything they want...some fool put up a Plastino signed slab for $8,000 or so, and caused Plastino to lose his mind, sadly. But it doesn't mean anything unless they sell. If I ask $1,000,000 for a Milgrom signed Hulk #267 in 7.5, does that mean anything? No.

The second one is fair, so let's discuss it:

You have, as of this moment, 236 SOLD listings for "rob liefeld signed." 

Since this isn't a discussion about signed books PER SE, but rather signed SLABBED books, let's cut out the non-slabbed books right off the top.

104 out of the 236 listings in your link are NOT slabbed. So, right away, those are tossed out of the discussion.

So that leaves 132 slabbed listings. Of those 132, 3 are not sig series, so they're out. That leaves 129 SS slabs of the CGC, Voldermort, or (GASP!) PGX variety.

Based on the rates above, a generic book signed by Liefeld costs $40. To get it "CGC'd" costs an additional $20. To actually HAVE it CGC'd is about $40-$60, depending on quantity. Selling an item on eBay usually costs about 11-13%. Keep in mind: "Deadpool" comics cost more. "New Mutants #87 and #98" cost more. "X-Force" comics cost more. 

Just to break even, a slab like this MUST sell on eBay for an average of approximately $150. That's just to break even. NO PROFIT BEING MADE OF ANY KIND.

So...not even considering the value of the underlying book, of the 129 slabbed listings...40...or nearly 1/3...sold at "break even" OR A LOSS.

Again, that's not even considering the value of the underlying copy. That's setting the value of that book at $0, which we all know isn't the case.

The remaining 90 or so slabs, then, must make *some* profit, right...?

Maybe. The cost of the underlying copy usually isn't free. How much did the seller pay to obtain it? Don't know. 

How long did the seller have it before getting it signed and slabbed? Don't know.

Is the seller the one who got it signed and slabbed, or is the seller someone who bought it from someone else already signed and slabbed? Don't know.

What is the difference between a signed copy and an unsigned copy in the same grade? Depends on the book.

Have SS'd copies sold for LESS THAN their unsigned counterparts in the same grade? Yes!

So, considering those 90 or so slabs, how many sold in the "$10-$50 profit" range? Or, not what anyone would call "fat stacks"...AGAIN, setting the value of the underlying copy to ZERO DOLLARS.

That answer is 28 to 29. Again, as this cannot be stressed enough: that assumes the value of the underlying book is ZERO DOLLARS.

So, in the $225+ range...the so-called "profit" makers...you have roughly 60 slabs. Several of them are signed by Stan, which adds another $120 to the cost, so we can safely throw out ANY book selling for less than $300 as "unprofitable."

And that's assuming the sigs were gathered at the same time, and there are no multiple submissions to contend with.

So, taking ALL of that into account...and again, assuming the value of the underlying book is set to ZERO DOLLARS...you have a mere 37 slabs that sold for what anyone would remotely call a worthwhile profit. If you take into account that not all 37 books were acquired for ZERO DOLLARS...then, of course, the "profit" being made is much, much less.

And, of those 37 books...assuming a ZERO DOLLAR acquisition cost...TWENTY of them are represented by a SINGLE BOOK: New Mutants #98.

You know what you DON'T see in that list?

New Mutants #97.

New Mutants #92.

X-Factor #40.

Hawk & Dove #1 Ltd.

New Mutants Annual #5.

X-Force #6.

Youngblood #2.

All sorts of books that Liefeld worked on, that are represented by SS copies, which weren't sold.

And that's 2-3 MONTHS worth of sales being considered.

Accounting. It's not just for nerds anymore.

 

The moral? Don't count other people's money, and they won't count yours. Creators are businesspeople, by necessity...they're being foolish if they're looking at the surface and coming away with erroneous conclusions. That's like walking into a comic store and being offended that someone is selling a New Mutants #98 for $800. "I only made 3 cents on that copy, and you're trying to sell it for $800!!" Liefeld might complain. And? So? What does that have to do with anything? What business is it of Rob Liefeld's what you do with YOUR PROPERTY, that you obtained legally? NONE!

"Oh no, someone's (probably) making MONEY off of me that *I* should be making!!! GASP!!!!!"

Fine, Rob Liefeld: submit your own books. Problem solved. Charge more for your signature. Problem solved.

But don't punish people based on your almost entirely ERRONEOUS fear that EVERYONE doing Sig Series is somehow making a mint off of your signature.

After all...didn't the publisher, printer, distributors, and local stores ALSO make money off of you? And didn't they do so based on far MORE effort than just your signature? YES! And that was the tradeoff YOU CHOSE to get YOUR WORK out to the public.

No one was stopping you from self-publishing, self-printing, self-distributing, and self-retailing...right?

 

One more time: the value of any slabbed book is in the condition of the underlying copy. Since creators have absolutely nothing whatsoever with preserving that condition, what right do they have to be "afraid" that someone is "profiting" off of them? Do they know the difference in value between a New Mutants #98 in 9.8 vs. one in 9.4? Based on the 90 day average, it's $992 vs. $405. That's a substantial difference in price. And do we know if any of those 9.4s were cracked 9.6s? Or, God forbid, 9.8s? Don't know. That would have been a terrific loss.

 

It's a fallacious argument, obviously, to point to a link and say "people making fat stacks" when none of the factors going into making these things come into being are discussed in any way. So, hopefully you were going for the ironic "yes, nobody is actually making a fortune selling Liefeld signed items." It's classic judging by the appearance, rather than the substance. Do people walk up to you and ask you how much you paid for the comics you sell? Do you answer them? I doubt it. If you paid $1 for something, and kept it in perfect condition for 20 years, and then offered it for sale for $800, and someone came along and said "I know you only paid $1 for that. I'll offer you $5, and you'll be quintupling your money!" would you go for it...?

What if you bought something the day before for $100, but you priced it at $500, because that's what it was currently worth, but someone came along and asks how much you paid for it? Would you sell it to them for $120? How about $150? Hell, you're making a profit, aren't you? Shouldn't you be happy?

Of course not. Don't count my money, and I won't count yours.

Things to consider:

There are, as noted, 236 "rob liefeld signed" items for sale. Rob signs 236 items in about 20-30 minutes, depending. Rob signs thousands....thousands...of books at each and every convention he attends. 236 listings against the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of items he's signed.

Not all the listings for "Rob Liefeld Signed" captured all of the SS listings, but it's close enough to make the point.

Everyone ALWAYS considers "the winners", but never seems to manage to consider the many, many losers it takes to produce one winner. 

[KPR Comics]

Wasn't my point.   Creators most likely are not going to go into the in-depth analysis you have done.  Rather, they will be/have been disheartened by what the perceive to be a profit motive as opposed to fan appreciation.    And as they feel underappreciated, they may say "I might as well get a cut".

[RockMyAmadeus]

26 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Sure, customer feedback can be an important tool to gauge your performance. I am sure that CGC was happy to get it, but I also bet that they saw a slight decline or something in the numbers during that quarter as well., a trend. 

As a customer, to expect something to change, you have to do more than complain and protest. That is what I am saying. You should protest with your wallet. If you want to also go tell the creator why you are not spending your money with him, sure, I think that is warranted. But, I don't think handing him money, and lecturing him on his ethics at the same time is going to do anything.

For me, I dealt with clients almost daily. They were my customers. I never said I didn't listen to them. But, you always have to look past the emotion and keep the bottom line in mind. If you can do things to satisfy them that will help the bottom line, then it should be done. A business should always do that.

The problem is that you can never make everyone happy. Thats why if you keep your focus on the bottom line and what will increase it, you will always stay on goal. If something the customer requests will increase it, then do it. But, if a customer gripes and complains, that doesn't necessarily mean that a change should be made.

I disagree with you entirely that "you have to do more than complain and protest." Without what you characterize as "complaining and protesting" (your words, not mine), I call "customer feedback", because that's what it is.

Look at how you categorize customer feedback: "complaining and protesting." That's how you view the situation, because you disagree, so you use words with negative connotations to characterize my position in an unfavorable manner. After all...who wants to complain and protest? Only agitators and troublemakers, right? And no one wants to be an agitator and troublemaker, right...?

And who said anything about "griping and complaining"? Only you.

And that's just a single example of how discussions can be framed. 

So, I will continue to refer to it as customer feedback, which it is, and say, one more time, that without customer feedback....what you negatively characterize as "complaining and protesting"...NO business will ever figure out what the problem is. 

Also, look at how you characterize giving customer feedback to the creator: "lecturing him on his ethics."

Who said anything about "lecturing creators on their ethics"...? Nobody. 

You can discuss something...as I did, sitting at Marv Wolfman's dining room table back in 2015...without "lecturing him on his ethics." I presented my case to him, and he responded, and we had a conversation about it. Did it change anything? No, not yet. But I can guarantee that saying nothing would assure him of never having to think about it from any perspective but his own.

And, as I stated before, I chose to "close my wallet" as it applies to Marv Wolfman. Marv Wolfman hasn't gotten a dime from me since the fall of 2015, and it will remain that way until and if he changes his policy. But I ALSO said that we're dealing with addict behavior, here, and addict behavior doesn't always make rational decisions, obviously. So, in some cases, one needs to accommodate their addictions and make compromises. That doesn't mean that handing them your money renders your feedback moot. Believe it or not, but creators are people, too, and many of them CAN be reasoned with, if you treat them like people, rather than demi-gods who must be worshiped.

[TYPE-R]

My first CGC book was a yellow label book but I haven't gotten a creator sig in over 2 years. I also have been selling off most of my creator sigs over the past year. I still collect sketch covers and blue labels but can't support a greedy anti-consumer practice because I want to have a book signed, professional graded and authenticated. If's very easy to see how it's a cash grab when creators are so against CGC in an age where technology allows simple signature forgeries to be done. When you see board members like seanfingh, Turtle, RMA, BeachBum, dhurley, par2ch, EvilAsh and many more continue to speak up about these issues then there's a problem going on with the Signature Series.

Edited March 7, 2018 by TYPE-R

[RockMyAmadeus]

33 minutes ago, KPR Comics said:

Wasn't my point.   Creators most likely are not going to go into the in-depth analysis you have done.  Rather, they will be/have been disheartened by what the perceive to be a profit motive as opposed to fan appreciation.    And as they feel underappreciated, they may say "I might as well get a cut".

And that's where explaining it to them...rather than lying to them...would go a long way. But people talking to them with respect, person to person, is hard to do when you're dealing with your idols. 

I know they've been lied to. I've heard it out of their mouths. "I usually don't charge, but so and so told me I should charge such and such if it's for CGC, because people are selling them." Straight out of Steve Englehart's mouth in 2016. And who told him that? A facilitator! Terribly disappointing to me. What is Englehart's sig worth? Very little. And he has ALWAYS signed for free. But what would it have been worth TO ME to get his run on Silver Surfer double signed by him and Lim, who happened to be at the same con, which is very rare?

Priceless.

I had this book, among several others, at his table, ready for him to sign...but because someone convinced him that he had to charge such and such, and because I'm not made of money, I had to make a decision, and not get it signed, among others. 

Who cares about Silver Surfer #31? Nobody. But I do, and even though I was right there, I had to make a decision, and didn't get it signed.

I did get this one double signed, because it was important to me, but it sure did put a black cloud over the day. I look at them, and think "damn it. I was RIGHT THERE, the books on the table, ready to go." 

I still have both of these, and have added a few more Lim Surfers to the run. They are personal favorites of mine.

But in that case, because someone had misrepresented what CGC is all about...someone who has been a facilitator for over a DECADE...I had to make a financial decision, so...he loses, I lose, CGC loses...it's sad.

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[KPR Comics]

I totally get your frustration.  

[RockMyAmadeus]

And lest anyone think otherwise, I LOVE the SS program. It's all I do. I think the Signature Series program is the greatest thing to do with comic collecting in my lifetime. I've been involved with it for 10 years now, and I only wish I had discovered it sooner.

I love meeting creators, I love getting them signed, I love combining that with my passion for ultra high grade books. I love the whole process, start to finish.

Do I sound like someone who doesn't give a hoot about comics, or creators, and am only in it for the flip? Who bothers with having a 9.8 run of Liefeld New Mutants? Or Lim Silver Surfers? Or Sam Kieth Batman covers? Or Bissette & Totleben Swamp Things? Or Sam Kieth MCPs? Or McFarlane Inifnity Incs? Or Sam Kieth Sandmans? Or Jim Lee Alpha Flights? Or Sam Kieth Maxx? I DO! And there aren't too many other oddballs out there like me. Everyone wants the New Mutants #98 and the NYX #3 and the Swamp Thing #37 and the Miracleman #15. But I want those AND the Tec #655 and the Infinity Inc #28 (Mr. Bones!) and the Sandman #5 and the Silver Surfer #31.

Yes, I absolutely sell SS slabs. And yes, I have no problem with doing it. It helps fund my addiction, and gets odd, hard to find creators/books into the hands of other people like me. Submitting to CGC is EXPENSIVE. But I don't complain about it, because I don't count your money, if you don't count mine.

But when people who DON'T care about comics, who DON'T have any interest in anything but the $$$, come in and virtually take over the program...and worse, arrange it so you have to go through THEM to do it, and drive up the cost for all involved, as if everyone is just in it for the flip...well, I, and people like me, take it personally. 

[MadGenius]

Great discussion here. I 100% agree with the points RMA is making. 

Has CGC either officially or unofficially commented on the exclusive deals creators are making with facilitators? Even if they wanted to, could they really stop two parties of consenting adults from entering into a business relationship? 

[newshane]

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And there aren't too many other oddballs out there like me.

Have you seen my Spawn collection?

[RockMyAmadeus]

58 minutes ago, MadGenius said:

Great discussion here. I 100% agree with the points RMA is making. 

Has CGC either officially or unofficially commented on the exclusive deals creators are making with facilitators? Even if they wanted to, could they really stop two parties of consenting adults from entering into a business relationship? 

No, but they certainly can choose who they do, and do not, do business with.

The reason it's the way it is now is because a certain handful of somebodys got the swell idea of creating a monopoly, and has spent the last 2-3 years going around to creators and saying "See here, my good man! This CGC business is the bee's knees! Everyone's making wheelbarrows full of cash doing it, and there's no reason why you shouldn't be getting your slice of that pie! Why, look at how much this New Mutants #98 sells for without a signature, and then see what one WITH your signature is worth! (Shows 9.8 listing of quadruple signed NM #98 at 5 times market value) In fact, if you tell CGC that you will only allow people to submit through us, I can make sure you get wads and wads of dough! Think about it, old chap: we give you line management, money management, and you can get a piece of the action that you deserve, and we only take a tiny percentage in payment! And, of course, you sign anything we want for free. A small price to pay to get your fair share of the action! Whaddaya say??"

And creators...because they have better things to do with their lives than research the ACTUAL market realities of the Sig Series program...fall for the "slick" sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. And it's not as if they don't get something out of it. They certainly do. But it comes at a significant cost that is hidden from most of them, and built on a foundation...that everyone slabbing for Sig Series is making "Fat stacks of cash!!!"...that is not only not true, it is foundationally untrue. The schemers are pointing to the very highest end, and pretending that that's indicative of the entire SS market.

But they don't know any better, and they think collectors are weirdos anyways...after all, what's wrong with you, says Alan Moore, that you'll pay $300 for a copy of Swamp Thing #37 when you can get the story for $10 in a trade? And if you'll pay $300 for that, you shouldn't have any problem paying $20 for my signature, and hey, I DESERVE part of that money you're making off my sig anyways! 

It's genius, really. Someone found a way to play on all the fears and resentments and petty jealousies of creators, to make themselves a good deal of cash. And it all would have worked, if they'd just not tried the whole "$X for raw, $X + Y for graded" scheme...but that, of course, is the wheel on which the whole system turns: "people are making wheelbarrows of dough getting these books slabbed, and you're missing out!!!" 

Except:

1. 75-99% of SS books end up in the hands of collectors. Or do people think that they just get traded over and over again between flippers at ever spiraling prices? Marv Wolfman does. He told me so. And I don't mean they're "flipped" to the hands of collectors, although that's true, too. No, the vast majority of SS books getting done are going right to collectors, from the start.

2. Signatures, in and of themselves, add very little to comic books. They only amplify what is...or is NOT...already there. Get Rob and Stan and Fabian and Fred Flintstone to sign a New Mutants #98, and it comes back a 9.8? Yes, if you sell it, you're probably going to profit, depending on your acquisition cost. Get Rob and Stan and Fabian and Fred to sign a 6.0 copy of New Mutants #98? You're going to lose money if you try to sell it. Try to sell a copy of New Mutants #97 signed by Rob and Stan and Louise in ANY grade?  Good luck with that! You'd lose less money BURNING the book instead.

3. Since the vast majority of the value of almost every book is in its CONDITION...which creators have nothing whatsoever to do with, outside their own personal copies...why do they have any claim on the value that book has in that condition on the open market? If ANYTHING, their claim would be on the DIFFERENCE between what a signed and unsigned copy in the same grade would sell for. And even then, that difference only exists at all because of the book's condition which, again, the creator had nothing to do with (see #2.)

4. All of which is none of the creators' business in the first place. What someone does with their property isn't anyone else's business. If I want to slab it, rip it up, bury it, roll it up and smoke it, what business is it of theirs? None. But, remember: addicts and don't want to be cut off, so we say nothing out of fear.

No, playing on the fears, resentments, and jealousies of creators, and the addictions of collectors, is nothing but exploitation, pure and simple. Genius...but exploitation nonetheless.

And, because CGC wants to respect the wishes of creators, and have good working relationships with them, they allow these schemes to operate, because I don't think they really grasp why it's a scheme, either. And, because comic collectors are addicts, and behave like addicts, they're afraid to say anything because they don't want to be cut off. And here we are.

Edited March 8, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

34 minutes ago, newshane said:

4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And there aren't too many other oddballs out there like me.

Have you seen my Spawn collection?

From one oddball to another, I greet you!

Besides, your Spawn collection is a thing of beauty.

I'd love to get a complete set in 9.8 signed by Todd and Greg (and Dave and Frank and Alan and Neil and Whilce, where appropriate), but do you know how much that would cost? Tens and tens of thousands of dollars.

[newshane]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

From one oddball to another, I greet you!

Besides, your Spawn collection is a thing of beauty.

I'd love to get a complete set in 9.8 signed by Todd and Greg (and Dave and Frank and Alan and Neil and Whilce, where appropriate), but do you know how much that would cost? Tens and tens of thousands of dollars.

I've got Dave, Frank, and almost everyone else...I really just need Tony Daniel and Alan Moore, but I don't think I'll ever land the latter.

EDIT: I also need Brian Holguin, but he is a recluse.

Edited March 8, 2018 by newshane

[RockMyAmadeus]

35 minutes ago, newshane said:

I've got Dave, Frank, and almost everyone else...I really just need Tony Daniel and Alan Moore, but I don't think I'll ever land the latter.

EDIT: I also need Brian Holguin, but he is a recluse.

He was at the Stan Lee Comicon in October. Would have been the perfect time to get him.