Action Comics #1 Cover OA...still exists?!?
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14 hours ago, delekkerste said:

They make purchases, but, they aren't spending Rockwell money on comic book art using mostly government (re: taxpayer-funded) funds.

I'm sure the Met would gladly take the Action #1 cover as a donation, but, dropping Rockwell money on it when there are no comps or precedents to support it...good luck getting that through any of their acquisitions committees.  

People will hear "Lucas" in the name and want to check out the Star Wars and other movie-related art and artifacts is my guess.  

Comic people always think that big books/OA pieces transcend the hobby; I don't think that is actually the case most of the time. 

Yes, we had this discussion a few years ago on the Boards in the GA Comics section IIRC - which would fetch more, the MH Action #1 or the Action #1 cover OA (if the latter existed).  IIRC, it was a close vote; I think the OA cover might have narrowly won the poll.  I voted for the MH Action #1 - it's the best copy of the most important comic book ever.  Very easy to understand - it's the pinnacle of the comic book collecting hobby, which dwarfs the OA hobby in numbers and size.  Even to outsiders, it's a much easier sell - it's best of the best of something they can understand.  In comic OA, I think there is a lot more variability in what people value.  I bet a lot of people in the hobby don't even know who drew the Action #1!  I doubt all the legions of die-hard Kirbyites are going to think the Action #1 is the pinnacle of the OA hobby, not by a longshot.  Think all the Jim Lee and Greg Capullo fans think the Action #1 is the ne plus ultra of the OA hobby?  Doubt it.  

That said, it only takes two to tango, so I agree that, in the end, the cover and the MH copy both probably come out around the same value.  Personally, even though I'm an OA guy, I'd take the MH copy any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the cover OA.  It's inarguably the best of the best of the best in the comic book hobby (which, again, is like orders of magnitude larger and more popular than OA).  The cover art?  Not my bag, baby.  

There’s an argument now percolating in comic collectors circles that a comparable TEC 27 would now fetch more than Action #1. It’s not been tested yet. 

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I disagree with Gene on one point. I think Hulk 181 Cover is more likely not to break out of the narrow hobby confines than Action 1 Cover. 

If Action 1 Cover were “discovered” tomorrow it would be a pretty big media deal. Just the record sale of Action 1 got a ton of media coverage. And whenever someone finds an Action 1 or TEC 27 it gets a bit of media coverage. 

Action #1 would transcend the hobby. Hulk 181 won’t. 

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1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

If the interior art exists, that’s strong evidence the covers do too. Someone thought they were important enough to preserve. The question is, where are the covers, which is the subject of a whole ‘nother thread.

Well, the interiors we know were all preserved, complete, in the Marvel warehouse for various reasons, including future reproduction efforts.  The covers were not.  It's uncertain whether most of the covers exist or not; many believe that they were destroyed at the printer and/or otherwise not saved.  I'm no expert on this, but, I think most people in the know lean towards the covers not existing anymore.  

Cap #1 cover was rumored to be owned by an old-time dealer.  I know some current dealers have been to his house, trying to see what he has...I guess you have to be in the deep reaches of The Cabal to know whether he ever gave up the goods or not, though.  

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I disagree with Gene on one point. I think Hulk 181 Cover is more likely not to break out of the narrow hobby confines than Action 1 Cover. 

If Action 1 Cover were “discovered” tomorrow it would be a pretty big media deal. Just the record sale of Action 1 got a ton of media coverage. And whenever someone finds an Action 1 or TEC 27 it gets a bit of media coverage. 

Action #1 would transcend the hobby. Hulk 181 won’t. 

Actually, you'd be disagreeing with others there, not me.  I agree that the Hulk #181 cover, which I believe will surface at some point (no, I don't know who has it), won't be a huge deal outside of the hobby outside of the usual puff pieces that show up on the hobby websites, Yahoo! News and wherever else the PR people for the auction houses manage to land them.  Maybe they will have the courtesy to start the articles off with "SNIKT!" instead of the usual "BAM! POW! ZAP!" bog-standard superhero sound effects.  

The Action #1 cover, if it surfaced, would get more play in the media, sure, but, I don't think it would translate into serious outsider bidding interest for it.  Cool stuff pops up all the time in what passes for news these days; it goes in one ear and out the other.  The Action #1 would only be a big, notable, memorable deal for people with a pre-existing connection to it.  For everyone else, at best it's "oh, that's cool", and then it's back to regular life. 2c 

Edited by delekkerste

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21 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Well, the interiors we know were all preserved, complete, in the Marvel warehouse for various reasons, including future reproduction efforts.  The covers were not.  It's uncertain whether most of the covers exist or not; many believe that they were destroyed at the printer and/or otherwise not saved.  I'm no expert on this, but, I think most people in the know lean towards the covers not existing anymore.  

Cap #1 cover was rumored to be owned by an old-time dealer.  I know some current dealers have been to his house, trying to see what he has...I guess you have to be in the deep reaches of The Cabal to know whether he ever gave up the goods or not, though.  

Actually, you'd be disagreeing with others there, not me.  I agree that the Hulk #181 cover, which I believe will surface at some point (no, I don't know who has it), won't be a huge deal outside of the hobby outside of the usual puff pieces that show up on the hobby websites, Yahoo! News and wherever else the PR people for the auction houses manage to land them.  Maybe they will have the courtesy to start the articles off with "SNIKT!" instead of the usual "BAM! POW! ZAP!" bog-standard superhero sound effects.  

The Action #1 cover, if it surfaced, would get more play in the media, sure, but, I don't think it would translate into serious outsider bidding interest for it.  Cool stuff pops up all the time in what passes for news these days; it goes in one ear and out the other.  The Action #1 would only be a big, notable, memorable deal for people with a pre-existing connection to it.  For everyone else, at best it's "oh, that's cool", and then it's back to regular life. 2c 

A high grade Mantle Rookie card just sold for $2.8 Million at auction. 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23254147/1952-mickey-mantle-baseball-card-topps-sells-record-288m?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This despite the baseball card market cratering. Bodes well, possibly, for the transcendent pieces in our hobby, I think.

And I have a hunch many of the Marvel Silver Age covers are out there somewhere.

We know that Ditko’s Original unused AF 15 Cover survived. So why wouldn’t the actual published cover? Why would Marvel tell the printers to return the interiors but not the covers? We know artists were already saving key covers from the Golden Age, so why would no one have an interest in saving these as well?

I think they’re out there  

 

 

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2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

We know artists were already saving key covers from the Golden Age, so why would no one have an interest in saving these as well?

Golden Age "saving" was so scattershot, and the why is too long to go into here, it's not worth mentioning. There was no concerted effort to that end except for the Harvey warehouse hoard and Bill Gaines keeping all the EC art back. Both of those were anomalous accidental genius moves because dispersion returns would have resulted in mass destruction not preservation.

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3 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

A high grade Mantle Rookie card just sold for $2.8 Million at auction. 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23254147/1952-mickey-mantle-baseball-card-topps-sells-record-288m?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This despite the baseball card market cratering. Bodes well, possibly, for the transcendent pieces in our hobby, I think.

And I have a hunch many of the Marvel Silver Age covers are out there somewhere.

We know that Ditko’s Original unused AF 15 Cover survived. So why wouldn’t the actual published cover? Why would Marvel tell the printers to return the interiors but not the covers? We know artists were already saving key covers from the Golden Age, so why would no one have an interest in saving these as well?

I think they’re out there  

 

 

'52 Topps Mantle PSA 8s are up 8-fold since 2011.  PSA 9s 10-fold since 2008 (of which there are SIX, plus, three PSA 10s).  It is absurdity beyond absurdity.  The market for that card was range-bound for TEN YEARS before it started ramping exponentially higher from 2012.  I was told recently by a sports card dealer that there has been a Wall Street cabal buying the cards up.  Let's see what happens when they sell.  I think that card loses value across the board adjusted for inflation 20-30 years from now.  

Incidentally, even though it fetched $2.88 million, the estimate was $3.5 million-plus.  And, in the earliest flyers they sent out (see photo attached), they were estimating $4 million-plus. 

BTW, if you want to read something awesome, read the lot description for that card:

The Greatest Auction Lot Description Ever Written

WHO SAYS THEY DON'T RING A BELL AT THE TOP???  From the breathless hyperbole about the card and the can't-lose nature of it, down to accepting cryptocurrencies as payment.  This is Peak Everything summed up in a nutshell. 2c 

5ada03d486035_PSA9Mantle.jpg.23f1d7386e0832d97a6c87d29a6e04cd.jpg

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3 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

And I have a hunch many of the Marvel Silver Age covers are out there somewhere.

We know that Ditko’s Original unused AF 15 Cover survived. So why wouldn’t the actual published cover? Why would Marvel tell the printers to return the interiors but not the covers? We know artists were already saving key covers from the Golden Age, so why would no one have an interest in saving these as well?

I think they’re out there  

Did the Ditko unused AF 15 cover survive?  Regardless, if it survived, it's because it never went to the printer and remained in Ditko's possession (or Severin's), presumably. 

I think people have said that the covers were not considered needed for future reproduction, only the interiors, and so were ordered destroyed after printing, at least in the early years.  I guess some covers were saved at the printers and such, but, the presumption is that most of them were discarded.  I don't have any special insight myself, but, that is the consideration of the most knowledgeable collectors in the hobby that I know. 2c 

Edited by delekkerste

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19 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 

Did the Ditko unused AF 15 cover survive?  Regardless, if it survived, it's because it never went to the printer and remained in Ditko's possession (or Severin's), presumably. 

I think people have said that the covers were not considered needed for future reproduction, only the interiors, and so were ordered destroyed after printing, at least in the early years.  I guess some covers were saved at the printers and such, but, the presumption is that most of them were discarded.  I don't have any special insight myself, but, that is the consideration of the most knowledgeable collectors in the hobby that I know. 2c 

The unused Ditko cover to AF #15 was used as a variant cover for ASM #700.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/01/04/amazing-spider-man-700-ditko-variant-heading-back-to-comic-stores/

And Sean Howe posted a photo of the OA online.

tumblr_mv1hunp0lf1qzoglfo1_500.jpg

Now...the question is...what would THIS sell for?

Edited by PhilipB2k17

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30 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

'52 Topps Mantle PSA 8s are up 8-fold since 2011.  PSA 9s 10-fold since 2008 (of which there are SIX, plus, three PSA 10s).  It is absurdity beyond absurdity.  The market for that card was range-bound for TEN YEARS before it started ramping exponentially higher from 2012.  I was told recently by a sports card dealer that there has been a Wall Street cabal buying the cards up.  Let's see what happens when they sell.  I think that card loses value across the board adjusted for inflation 20-30 years from now.  

Incidentally, even though it fetched $2.88 million, the estimate was $3.5 million-plus.  And, in the earliest flyers they sent out (see photo attached), they were estimating $4 million-plus. 

BTW, if you want to read something awesome, read the lot description for that card:

The Greatest Auction Lot Description Ever Written

WHO SAYS THEY DON'T RING A BELL AT THE TOP???  From the breathless hyperbole about the card and the can't-lose nature of it, down to accepting cryptocurrencies as payment.  This is Peak Everything summed up in a nutshell. 2c 

5ada03d486035_PSA9Mantle.jpg.23f1d7386e0832d97a6c87d29a6e04cd.jpg

LOL! That description is nuts. Here's my favorite part:

"Along with standard payment methods, we will be accepting cryptocurrency for this lot at the request of our consignor. The following cryptocurrencies will be accepted at their spot value at the time of payment: BTC, ETH, XRP, BCH, LTC, NEO, DASH, IOTA,& EOS. Others may be accepted if arranged before the closing date."

Perfect.
 

Edited by PhilipB2k17

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1 hour ago, vodou said:

Golden Age "saving" was so scattershot, and the why is too long to go into here, it's not worth mentioning. There was no concerted effort to that end except for the Harvey warehouse hoard and Bill Gaines keeping all the EC art back. Both of those were anomalous accidental genius moves because dispersion returns would have resulted in mass destruction not preservation.

Yes.  But we know that people like Jerry Robinson and Joe Simon were saving some of them already. I just have a suspicion that they are out there still.

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44 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The unused Ditko cover to AF #15 was used as a variant cover for ASM #700.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/01/04/amazing-spider-man-700-ditko-variant-heading-back-to-comic-stores/

And Sean Howe posted a photo of the OA online.

tumblr_mv1hunp0lf1qzoglfo1_500.jpg

Now...the question is...what would THIS sell for?

OA, or is it a stat?  If the OA exists, where is it?

The price-tag and Comics Code stamp would have been stats pasted to the OA, with maybe some touches of white-out for corrections, and I don't detect any signs of that on this image.

Edited by The Voord
Different logo to AAF

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32 minutes ago, The Voord said:

OA, or is it a stat?  If the OA exists, where is it?

The price-tag and Comics Code stamp would have been stats pasted to the OA, with maybe some touches of white-out for corrections, and I don't detect any signs of that on this image.

Yeah, this piece was first published in the interior of the marvel tales issue that reprinted AF15 in the 80s.    I suspect the image is a doctored version of that printed image. 

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48 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yes.  But we know that people like Jerry Robinson and Joe Simon were saving some of them already. I just have a suspicion that they are out there still.

You're talking about grains of sand...I'm talking about the rest of the beach. Silly. None of this has anything to do with early Marvel superhero covers though. Joe Simon and Jerry Robinson weren't at Marvel 1961-1964! And Jack...we'll he was way too busy drawing complete books every three days to be worried about 'saving' covers. That's the past time of editors and other bored bullpenners. And 61-64...well that was really just Stan wasn't it? So either Stan's estate will eventually puke up everything or we'll then known with certainty, it's all lost forever.

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Note here that there is space to the left of the word bubbles not present on the "OA".  From Marvel Tales:

latest?cb=20070605005722

Edited by Bronty

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4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Yeah, this piece was first published in the interior of the marvel tales issue that reprinted AF15 in the 80s.    I suspect the image is a doctored version of that printed image. 

 

B36AB47E-7AB3-4E7F-AB35-E20EF16B6EDD.jpeg

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it appears that someone then cleaned it up and did a re-color job on it, but trimmed the image in the process as the space to the left is gone:

adbbfb6291e078bb43f38098d9767d25.jpg

Edited by Bronty

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....and then somebody did just the blacklines... the trimming of which, for the word bubbles on the left, now matches the "Sean Howe" copy.

So "Sean Howe" probably took this image and photoshopped it onto an old board.

amazing-fantasy-15-cover-4.jpg

Edited by Bronty

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2 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Yeah, this piece was first published in the interior of the marvel tales issue that reprinted AF15 in the 80s.    I suspect the image is a doctored version of that printed image. 

So possibly a stat that's been used numerous times internally but no longer, nor particularly 'known' in original for

 

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The unused Ditko cover to AF #15 was used as a variant cover for ASM #700.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/01/04/amazing-spider-man-700-ditko-variant-heading-back-to-comic-stores/

And Sean Howe posted a photo of the OA online.

tumblr_mv1hunp0lf1qzoglfo1_500.jpg

Now...the question is...what would THIS sell for?

If the original exists in essentially this form (clean but without CCA stuff) I think you're looking at 1.5-2m. But that's it. Unpublished. And it would vie for numbers against published Ditko ASM covers

 

2 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Note here that there is space to the left of the word bubbles not present on the "OA".  From Marvel Tales:

latest?cb=20070605005722

Hmmm. Not good then for those hoping the original still exists. It may but the b/w image does not add to the argument.

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4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Note here that there is space to the left of the word bubbles not present on the "OA".  From Marvel Tales:

latest?cb=20070605005722

Could have been add-on to fit the page. Like they added the blurb. There have been other OA with stats by artists added to widen the image 

I think you’re missing the point, though. The actual original Ditko cover survived, otherwise they couldn’t have reprinted it in the 80’s or used it as a variant cover. 

Whether the one I posted is it, or not, is beside the point. It exists. 

Edited by PhilipB2k17

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1 minute ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Could have been add-on to fit the page. Like they added the blurb. 

 

No chance.    Show me another early SA marvel cover (hero or pre-hero) with the thick word bubble outline where they cropped the word bubble.   Just didn't happen.

Edited by Bronty

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