Tracking Down the Earliest BATMAN Art in Existence 0

[pemart1966]

5 hours ago, artdealer said:

Whoever this "Robby Reed" might be, He is wrong on one topic. 

Mort Meskin never drew a Batman story. I don't know where he got his information. 
I spoke with Meskin back in the late 70s. I asked if he ever drew a Batman story as I thought I remembered a story with his credits. 
Mort said he never drew a Batman story, nor did he remember helping Jerry Robinson with inks. And a Meskin Batman story would have been memorable.

Also, I don't believe that Bob Kane had as much Batman art as someone posted. There is no record of him saying so, and if so, it would have been on the market by now.

What Kane did do is take a bunch of Carmine's Batman and Detective cover originals, cut them up and made a collage for display when he had art shows.

Mitch I.

If he did have any Batman art, the perfect time for him to trot it out would have been at the time of the 1989 Batman movie.  That didn't happen.

[BCarter27]

13 hours ago, bluechip said:

As I understand it, Kane had saved much of the art but it was burned by his wife in a rage after she found out about the latest of his numerous affairs.

 Billionaire playboy, indeed!

[ESeffinga]

For those that haven't already seen the Batman & Bill documentary, you may find some of it interesting even if it's not totally new info to you.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by ESeffinga

[ESeffinga]

Also just realized the above documentary was created by the folks that did the Art of the Steal documentary that we've talked about here on the board in years past, so there's that.

[pemart1966]

19 hours ago, artdealer said:

Whoever this "Robby Reed" might be, He is wrong on one topic. 

Mort Meskin never drew a Batman story. I don't know where he got his information. 
I spoke with Meskin back in the late 70s. I asked if he ever drew a Batman story as I thought I remembered a story with his credits. 
Mort said he never drew a Batman story, nor did he remember helping Jerry Robinson with inks. And a Meskin Batman story would have been memorable.

Also, I don't believe that Bob Kane had as much Batman art as someone posted. There is no record of him saying so, and if so, it would have been on the market by now.

What Kane did do is take a bunch of Carmine's Batman and Detective cover originals, cut them up and made a collage for display when he had art shows.

Mitch I.

Does anyone know which covers succumbed to Bob's "creativity"?

[Will_K]

10 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

For those that haven't already seen the Batman & Bill documentary, you may find some of it interesting even if it's not totally new info to you. 

I'm a backer of a failed (says me) Kickstarter documentary on Bill Finger.  My reward (a DVD of the documentary) has an estimated delivery date of May 2014..

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/comicartscouncil/the-cape-creator-a-tribute-to-bat-maker-bill-finge     (Finger with no R)

Yay.

[bluechip]

On 6/3/2018 at 12:06 PM, MagnusX said:

 

'Hell has no fury like a woman scorned'

It would take some serious cajones to cheat on that girl

[BCarter27]

On 6/18/2018 at 7:37 PM, Collectr said:

edit.

I'm not sure why you pulled down the links and images. They were very interesting and probably are the earliest art if they are pre-Batman 1. I probably would have bid if I hadn't overlooked them both.

Re-posting for reference-

From ebay-

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Planche-originale-de-BATMAN-Le-Justicier-paru-en-1940-dans-LES-GRANDES-AVENTURES/132602669030?hash=item1edfbc27e6:g:EbEAAOSwUMBa5ay

Quote

Result 334,00 EUR

LE JUSTICIER. Planche originale à l'encre de Chine + retouches à la gouache blanche sur papier calque. Page 1 de cet épisode qui fut publié dans l'hebdomadaire LES GRANDES AVENTURES en 1940. Format du calque : 44,6 x 32,5 cm.

L'occupation allemande ayant interdit la publication de BD américaines, le journal "les grandes aventures" publia une copie de BATMAN sous le titre "le justicier". Au départ cette BD devait s'intituler "le masque rouge" (titre modifié) et le nom de divers personnages fut changé (voir les rustines). Certaines sources indiquent que le dessin serait de René Brantonne.
 

Le dessin pourrait aussi être de Robba (Robert Bagage).

 

And from TS-

http://www.tessier-sarrou.com/html/fiche.jsp?id=8763112&np=1&lng=en&npp=100&ordre=1&aff=&r=

Quote

Résultat: 563 €

Planches et dessins parus à la SAGE. 1 carton…
1 carton à dessin renfermant plus de 70 dessins et planches originales, dont «Le Justicier», «Sur les routes d'Indochine» (CHOTT), «Jim
Alaska», La Cité des Dieux (0'ROCH), «Gordon», «Le Courage d'aimer», Loana ‘ (épreuves), couverture de Kansas Kid (COSSIO), Ciclone, etc.

 

Further reading-

https://thepatronsaintofsuperheroes.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/batman-vs-le-justicier/

Quote

In all three cases, the call for censorship was a post-war cause. Batman appeared only once in France during World War II. Germany invaded in May 1940 and by August divided the country into an occupied northern region and the so-called “free zone” of Vichy France.  The weekly Les Gandes Aventures premiered the following month. Beginning in the tabloid’s second issue, “Le Justicier” ran through October and November in eight weekly pages, divided into two, four-part stories. The first is an uncredited adaptation of Detective Comics No. 30 (August 1939), Batman’s fourth episode, written by Gardner Fox and drawn by Bob Kane with Sheldon Moldoff co-inking.

 

A published U.S. page for reference-

Edited June 20, 2018 by BCarter27

[BCarter27]

7 hours ago, Collectr said:

I think even if it doesn't pre-date Batman #1, there's still no batman appearance in the Guernsey's page discussed.

That's a very good point. But now you're just rubbing it in that I missed them!   Somebody got a bargain on these two.

7 hours ago, Collectr said:

whether it even be classified as Batman, I mean it's really "Le Justicier"!

Well, it pre-dates the Batman 9 page by about 16 months. So, values aside, it's OA, very interesting historically, and at least worth including in the conversation.

[drdroom]

Looks like the earliest known Batman OA (featuring Batman) to me, though the fact that it's a re-draw does put a slight damper on the excitement level.

Edited June 28, 2018 by drdroom

[Catwoman_Fan]

On 7/15/2018 at 3:49 AM, Collectr said:

Any more thoughts?

 

It could be from the 60s-70s, but without provenance, its legitimacy is a coin flip for me. 

[pemart1966]

On 7/4/2018 at 12:42 AM, Collectr said:

That is, if we assume this is another fake.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/illustrations/bob-kane-large-vintage-batman-specialty-illustration-original-art-dated-1941-/a/829-41433.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

I don't know that it's "fake" i.e. NOT done by Bob Kane but in my opinion, it looks as if the "1941" is there to identify the era of the image as opposed to the actual year in which the drawing was done.

[Collectr]

I recently discovered two Heritage listings for original art similar to the French pages discussed. This time, the art comes from Italy via Argentina, also circa 1940. 

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/miscellaneous/el-tony-el-vampiro-y-robert-batman-and-robin-sunday-comic-strip-production-art-editorial-columba-c-1940-/a/121529-13022.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-ThisAuction-120115

and

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/miscellaneous/el-tony-el-vampiro-y-robert-batman-and-robin-sunday-comic-strip-production-art-editorial-columba-c-1940-/a/121529-13021.s

The "Sunday pages" sold for peanuts in 2015. They use stat images of Batman from the American comics (rare in their own right) with line extensions by a guy called "El Tony". Even though it is very similar, these are unlike the French pages because the batman drawings are paste-ups. I'm not sure when in 1940, but I know that it is sometime after April (first app of Robin). That gives 5 months difference for this to predate the Le Justicier Pages. As said, it's not really OA.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Collectr

[Collectr]

This is from a Sprang story, dated 1946 I believe. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Collectr

[Lucky Baru]

Frank Foster II's artwork is going to be put up for sale on eBay on Aug 17.

Art That Claims to Be the 'Original Batman' To Go on Sale on eBay

 

[bluechip]

On 8/7/2018 at 7:40 PM, Collectr said:

I've heard about this piece.

Does anybody else than the seller believe this is legit?

100k is a lot for an unpublished piece which could very likely be a forgery, or either completely irrelevant to the creation of batman. There's a good Q and A with the seller here.

https://numberonebatfan.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/did-dc-steal-batman-from-frank-foster-ii/

I'd heard of this guy years ago when he briefly got his story up on wikipedia before it was removed.   His father claims to have visited "the company that became DC" in 1932 when that company ("National") wasn't in existence yet.   It was formed in 1934.  He also claims that Bob Kane is the most likely person who stole it, because of Kane's reputation, forgetting that he said his father showed it to DC, not Kane, and that he did so years before Kane ever set foot in DC's offices.   It may be that his father truly invented the word Batman, but so did others, before him, Kane being just one of them.  Same for the word "Superman," which, like Batman, had been "created" a number of times before Siegel and Shuster did it, too, and created a character that stuck.   Same for "Spiderman" which many people used for various villains.   Including the "company that became Marvel," which had a villain named Spider-man in 1938 and a few more times after that, before Peter Parker became the hero in 1962.  This guy probably believes what he's saying, but in order to believe it he's got to ignore glaring inconsistencies in his own story.

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by bluechip

[wurstisart]

It definitely is on eBay, right here 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Batman-drawings-1932/232893125309?hash=item36398312bd

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by wurstisart
Update

[ESeffinga]

The whole thing is so odd.

Ignoring all the evidence to the contrary, and taking this guy at his word, that his Uncle did create this character. And the character was supposed to be called the Batman or whatever, yadda yadda.

Why would you then sell the one bit of "original evidence" you have, if you are still trying to make that case?

At best, it seems shortsighted.
At worst it screams pump and dump, money-grab.

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by ESeffinga

[pemart1966]

On 8/6/2018 at 7:36 AM, Collectr said:

This is from a Sprang story, dated 1946 I believe. 

To what are you referring?

[pemart1966]

43 minutes ago, Collectr said:

The Italian piece I referred previously to (above that post).

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

 I don't see any Sprang in there except for maybe the Batman face in panel 7 of the second strip...