2018 Heroes Convention Report 1 1

[HENRYSPENCER]

Just got back from day one of the Heroes Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina.  Friday's, crowd wise like at most cons, are typically the slowest day with the smallest attendance. I've been going the show every year since 2006 and from what I noticed there were as few of people as I've ever seen.  In fact, the number of artists, exhibitors, volunteers and setup crews probably outnumbered those paid in attendance. Tomorrow will hopefully be a bigger day. If you see an artist that you'd like a commission from, this would be the opportune time to get it as the few lines there were seemed to move quickly.  Some other observations...
I noticed some of the dealers I'm used to seeing over the years who in the past have had hard to find, more high-end, expensive inventory didn't have the kind of books I'm accustomed to seeing.  Their stocks aren't the same as they once were. Are quality, esoteric books now being taken to market directly by the collectors themselves versus being shopped around at shows?  There were plenty of Marvel key issues, but there was not an overall great selection of horror and 10 cent DC.  Lots of dealers had multiple copies of the same book, most of them keys and popular issues in all different grades.  In fact, the numerous booths I walked through I saw very little variety.  Everyone had a Fantastic Four 1 in some grade or condition, and there was no shortage of Showcase 4's or Amazing Fantasy 15. There were at least ten dealers I met who had elected to go for a smaller booth setup this year.  One dealer, in particular, I remember from 2009 who had a triple booth was down to only a single corner-cap in the center of the convention. He was sharing a booth with another dealer friend he'd driven up with from Florida. He'd mentioned booth prices this year were north of $800 for the weekend and that he'd been told they were going to exceed $900 next year.  When I asked him if this meant he'd have to raise prices on his inventory for the extra incurred costs in set up he looked puzzled.  Raising prices to offset booth costs makes sense with so much data out there on the values of books and margins already being razor thin (a lot of dealers paying premium prices to other dealers looking for books to resell).
I've noticed the majority of comic book dealers set up are from the baby boom generation while those selling Funko Pop toys, bootleg DVD's and t-shirts are the younger crowds.   It will be interesting to see the layout a decade from now when they have the opportunity to retire.  Sadly there may be only a few select shows around the country each year dedicated exclusively to the buying and selling of comics.
Both CGC and CBCS were set up.  I fear something has gone cataclysmically wrong at CBCS as there were fifty to seventy-five people at CGC's booth and only two at CBCS.  That's right only two.
It was nice to see Bob Storms.  He had two beautiful Archie #1's both unrestored and CGC graded at 3.0. It's been years since I've had the opportunity to hold one up close and in hand.  Thanks Bob.
Vincent Zurzolo aka VinnyZ was in attendance, and I saw him at Rick Whitelock's New Force Comics booth buying slabbed inventory to stick into the next Comic Connect Event Auction.
I won't mention his name but one dealer in particular who runs some spectacular eBay auctions that I've gotten some choice material from at unbelievable prices over the years didn't even have a wall display set up nor did he bring any books valued above $5 or $10.  I bought cash and was looking to buy some material but to no avail.
Everything on the back wall on display seemed to be priced on the high side and at a premium.  Save for dealer to dealer buys; I didn't see a lot of material moving off the wall.
Things undoubtedly change over time, and it gives me a great sense of nostalgia knowing I was in attendance during the heyday when at this show you had a captains choice of 10 cent Marvel and DC issues in midgrade scarce as they may be all at reasonable prices.  I'd be interested in seeing the various attendance numbers over the last couple of years versus artists, creators, and dealers.  With rising overhead costs, more shows on the map, the material being hard to find and so few new dealers it's going to be interesting to see how this historic convention plays its way out in years to come.

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by HENRYSPENCER

[FSF]

Thanks for the detailed show report!  It was a very interesting and entertaining read.

[FSF]

BTW, we are both now officially members of the 137 posts' club.  Exclusive indeed, even it is ephemeral.

 

 

[The Professor]

Henry,

I took my family Friday also. We normally go Saturday each year and have been going since 2011. We spent roughy 700 dollars as a family with both my son and I buying comics mostly and my daughter focusing on pop dolls, figures, shirts, etc.

I usually dig at this con through the boxes and find crazy deals. Not the case this year. Some dealers did not even have their back issues priced, which is a huge waste of time IMO.

Many keys were really overpriced and lower grade yet asking higher grade prices. I did get a great deal on a CGC Green Lantern 76. I know the book has been cooling off and I took advantage of the fact. 

 

Here  is one example I found at the Con.

 

Sucicide Squad 1 1987 - NM copy at one booth $100, $18 dollars at another. Needless to say I purchased the 18 dollar book. I don't expect books to be given away. What I believe is starting to happen more and more is because of the Hero Movies. More people are being brought back into the hobby or are selling off collections at higher prices. Dealers have smaller margins on Books. They are paying more for books with the excpectation that they will still get a return. The problem is at some point they are buying books where they have very little wiggle room and are going to have a harder time moving books.

My son tried to purchase a VG copy of NTT # 2 for 70, which is a litttle high for a beater copy and was told no. I am glad the dealer kept the copy. I have already found him a nicer copy at a lower price.

I think some dealers are going to leave Heroes angry as they have priced themselves out of sales.

 

We enjoyed the con a great deal, and will continue to go.

Edited June 16, 2018 by The Professor
Spelling error

[Robot Man]

Wow, again, does not sound good for buyers and sellers of vintage comics...

At $800 for a booth, sounds like a good deal for exhibitors for a show like this. There are other costs I know but it would seem that a smart dealer could make some money in there. Fair pricing is key as is bring a little something for everybody. 

It sounds like a decent dealer turnout. Problem I keep having is finding something I really need. I am a bit of an advanced GA collector and don't have super deep pockets. But I turn up at shows with a lot of cash and am willing to spend. I know the stuff I want is probably not going to be there and I am usually right. Auctions are about the only place left to find what I want.

I love to box dive and very seldom purchase wall books due to the price. I find very little of them anymore. I know dealers get their stock from each other and their costs are high. $800 for a booth seems pretty reasonable to me though.

Sad that the big shows seem to be dying for vintage comic buying and selling. Glad I'm a geezer and remember the "good old days". I would hate to have to try to put a decent GA collection together in these times...

 

 

[1Cool]

I loved seeing board members but kind of felt  about the Con.  Maybe I had my rose colored glasses on 4 years ago when I last went but I felt the picking was much better back then.  The number of booths is staggering at Heroes but the $1 and $2 booths was definetely lacking compared to Motor City and even Baltimore.  It may just be the 7.5 drive each way but from a buying stand point it just was not worth it to go back when Detroit, Chicago and Baltimore are much closer and seemed to have more deals.

 Not to say I did get some pretty good deals (especially from Hey Kids Comics) but it was definetely work trying to put together large combo purchases and pretty much disregarding the sticker prices.  Big Earl sold his booth to another dealer right when I was on my way back to try to work out a combo deal which took the wind out of my sail.

[Martin Sinescu]

Man, I came away with a haul today. Still have tomorrow to go, which is good since I really hadn't even made it halfway across the floor by closing time. I hit Dale and Worldwide several times each, but I also found some unexpectedly nice little gems in random places and most of the dealers have been happy to knock a little off if I've asked (granted I'm not trying to take anyone's Hulk 181's). Definitely a fun time on my end with plenty more exploring to go.

[Robot Man]

Good to hear someone came away happy. As I said, great dealer line up. Hard to believe there were people who came away empty handed. 

[VintageComics]

16 hours ago, The Professor said:

I think some dealers are going to leave Heroes angry as they have priced themselves out of sales.

The market has been crazy and sellers are often pricing books into where they think the book will be next year. Nobody wants to leave any meat on the bone any more because they think that next year they be able to get double what they are getting this year for a 'hot' book.

This has definitely caused buyers to leave disappointed from shows and probably disappointed dealers because some aren't selling as many books.

Rising booth costs and shrinking margins are eventually going to squeeze out the little guys (as it is happening across the country) making shows only profitable for international dealers who can afford to bring top shelf material to every show.

 

[FlyingDonut]

Just to be clear, every dealer I've talked to today has said they had a great show down there.

[G.A.tor]

5 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

Just to be clear, every dealer I've talked to today has said they had a great show down there.

Definitely our best show ever at heroes,  sales wise 

[G.A.tor]

22 hours ago, The Professor said:

 

My son tried to purchase a VG copy of NTT # 2 for 70, which is a litttle high for a beater copy and was told no. I am glad the dealer kept the copy. I have already found him a nicer copy at a lower price.

I think some dealers are going to leave Heroes angry as they have priced themselves out of sales.

 

We enjoyed the con a great deal, and will continue to go.

Since I believe we were the booth that had a ntt2 priced at $90 that I remember someone offering $70 on, I just want to clarify  ... I bought the book as a Cgc 5,0 with cracked case for $66 + $12 shipping. Reslab was obviously not a viable option so we cracked out and mylared. 

So I own the book at $78 and put the minimal mark up I felt I could  on the book and still be priced within fmv for the grade. I wish I could own every book cheaper but just hard to do these days

 

But I am happy someone had a better deal , that is an advantage of a con... buyers have choices and some sellers have better deals. Doesn’t always mean sellers are trying to be overpriced etc, just the reality of the marketplace. 

[1Cool]

On 6/15/2018 at 5:31 PM, HENRYSPENCER said:

Just got back from day one of the Heroes Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina.  Friday's, crowd wise like at most cons, are typically the slowest day with the smallest attendance. I've been going the show every year since 2006 and from what I noticed there were as few of people as I've ever seen.  In fact, the number of artists, exhibitors, volunteers and setup crews probably outnumbered those paid in attendance. Tomorrow will hopefully be a bigger day. If you see an artist that you'd like a commission from, this would be the opportune time to get it as the few lines there were seemed to move quickly.  Some other observations...
I noticed some of the dealers I'm used to seeing over the years who in the past have had hard to find, more high-end, expensive inventory didn't have the kind of books I'm accustomed to seeing.  Their stocks aren't the same as they once were. Are quality, esoteric books now being taken to market directly by the collectors themselves versus being shopped around at shows?  There were plenty of Marvel key issues, but there was not an overall great selection of horror and 10 cent DC.  Lots of dealers had multiple copies of the same book, most of them keys and popular issues in all different grades.  In fact, the numerous booths I walked through I saw very little variety.  Everyone had a Fantastic Four 1 in some grade or condition, and there was no shortage of Showcase 4's or Amazing Fantasy 15. There were at least ten dealers I met who had elected to go for a smaller booth setup this year.  One dealer, in particular, I remember from 2009 who had a triple booth was down to only a single corner-cap in the center of the convention. He was sharing a booth with another dealer friend he'd driven up with from Florida. He'd mentioned booth prices this year were north of $800 for the weekend and that he'd been told they were going to exceed $900 next year.  When I asked him if this meant he'd have to raise prices on his inventory for the extra incurred costs in set up he looked puzzled.  Raising prices to offset booth costs makes sense with so much data out there on the values of books and margins already being razor thin (a lot of dealers paying premium prices to other dealers looking for books to resell).
I've noticed the majority of comic book dealers set up are from the baby boom generation while those selling Funko Pop toys, bootleg DVD's and t-shirts are the younger crowds.   It will be interesting to see the layout a decade from now when they have the opportunity to retire.  Sadly there may be only a few select shows around the country each year dedicated exclusively to the buying and selling of comics.
Both CGC and CBCS were set up.  I fear something has gone cataclysmically wrong at CBCS as there were fifty to seventy-five people at CGC's booth and only two at CBCS.  That's right only two.
It was nice to see Bob Storms.  He had two beautiful Archie #1's both unrestored and CGC graded at 3.0. It's been years since I've had the opportunity to hold one up close and in hand.  Thanks Bob.
Vincent Zurzolo aka VinnyZ was in attendance, and I saw him at Rick Whitelock's New Force Comics booth buying slabbed inventory to stick into the next Comic Connect Event Auction.
I won't mention his name but one dealer in particular who runs some spectacular eBay auctions that I've gotten some choice material from at unbelievable prices over the years didn't even have a wall display set up nor did he bring any books valued above $5 or $10.  I bought cash and was looking to buy some material but to no avail.
Everything on the back wall on display seemed to be priced on the high side and at a premium.  Save for dealer to dealer buys; I didn't see a lot of material moving off the wall.
Things undoubtedly change over time, and it gives me a great sense of nostalgia knowing I was in attendance during the heyday when at this show you had a captains choice of 10 cent Marvel and DC issues in midgrade scarce as they may be all at reasonable prices.  I'd be interested in seeing the various attendance numbers over the last couple of years versus artists, creators, and dealers.  With rising overhead costs, more shows on the map, the material being hard to find and so few new dealers it's going to be interesting to see how this historic convention plays its way out in years to come.

 

 

Was that you?  I was standing at Bob's booth when a guy asked to see both Archie 1s and we talked about him needing two Pep 22s for the next Con.  Just strange to see and talk to someone and then find out they are board members.

[1Cool]

8 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

Just to be clear, every dealer I've talked to today has said they had a great show down there.

I did see quite a few $2,000 - $4,000 deals go down while I was at a booth (I think half of those deals involved FF 48 which was smoking hot) so there definitely was a ton of key books switching hands at this show.  The only negative was a couple of the smaller dealers said i was the only one all day Friday that looked thru their boxes which seemed strange for a con that large.  But as usual its all about the KEYS baby!

[Foolkiller]

9 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

Just to be clear, every dealer I've talked to today has said they had a great show down there.

I'll just echo what Dan said, I've spoken to a number of dealers who reported great shows, both buying and selling.  

I do think that who you speak to and how the show goes for you individually can color your perspective.  If you hit that one great deal in the room, then suddenly it was an 'amazing' show.  Heroes has always been a traditionally strong buying show.  Competition is now stronger than ever at these shows.  If you drive 7.5 hrs as 1Cool did and don't hit that home run, I can relate to the feeling of meh, was it all that great?  But with that said, it sounds like most folks did well and it was a great time.

[1Cool]

20 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

I'll just echo what Dan said, I've spoken to a number of dealers who reported great shows, both buying and selling.  

I do think that who you speak to and how the show goes for you individually can color your perspective.  If you hit that one great deal in the room, then suddenly it was an 'amazing' show.  Heroes has always been a traditionally strong buying show.  Competition is now stronger than ever at these shows.  If you drive 7.5 hrs as 1Cool did and don't hit that home run, I can relate to the feeling of meh, was it all that great?  But with that said, it sounds like most folks did well and it was a great time.

I will say this Con seems to be one that you need to be in and buying Thurday or all the low hanging fruit are gone whereas other Cons you can come in Friday morning and there is still a bunch left.  Maybe Heroes has an early load in time so people have more time to go thru stock compared to others.  Don't know but I did hear a few guys say "new collection just in and people have been pulling out great stuff" and that puppy was picked over something fierce and this was at 10:00 AM on Friday so the shear amount of competition getting there on Thursday must be fierce. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by 1Cool

[1Cool]

The OP made a comment about dealers buying less booths which I took as him saying the Con may not be doing as well.  I think dealers (especially non locals) have found out they can leave the non keys at home so they do not need 3 booths and can pack all their keys in 1 booth.  The lack of run sales I'm sure has prompted the cut backs more then anything.

[thirdgreenham]

10 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

The OP made a comment about dealers buying less booths which I took as him saying the Con may not be doing as well.  I think dealers (especially non locals) have found out they can leave the non keys at home so they do not need 3 booths and can pack all their keys in 1 booth.  The lack of run sales I'm sure has prompted the cut backs more then anything.

Also being able to justify $800/table to sell dollar books. 

The math just doesn’t add up anymore. 

 

[HENRYSPENCER]

7 hours ago, Foolkiller said:

I'll just echo what Dan said, I've spoken to a number of dealers who reported great shows, both buying and selling.  

I do think that who you speak to and how the show goes for you individually can color your perspective.  If you hit that one great deal in the room, then suddenly it was an 'amazing' show.  Heroes has always been a traditionally strong buying show.  Competition is now stronger than ever at these shows.  If you drive 7.5 hrs as 1Cool did and don't hit that home run, I can relate to the feeling of meh, was it all that great?  But with that said, it sounds like most folks did well and it was a great time.

I just didn't see a whole lot of variety of eclectic titles in my time on Friday.  There were certainly lots of keys in the room; Showcase 22’s and FF1’s were a dime a dozen, albeit priced anywhere from 1.5 to 2X GPA.  Sometimes 4X GPA! If paying that kind of premium is your thing then most certainly you came to the right place.  For example, one dealer was asking $65k for Hulk #1 in CGC 7.0 when sales at Heritage the past year are hovering around $30k.  

Ultimately it's about pushing material.  I would, however, be interested in reviewing what percentage of sales were dealer to dealer versus those sold directly to collectors.  I saw dealers walking the con buying books to relist on their websites and auctions, but most collectors I saw left empty-handed.

Edited June 17, 2018 by HENRYSPENCER

[1Cool]

50 minutes ago, HENRYSPENCER said:

I just didn't see a whole lot of variety of eclectic titles in my time on Friday.  There were certainly lots of keys in the room; Showcase 22’s and FF1’s were a dime a dozen, albeit priced anywhere from 1.5 to 2X GPA.  Sometimes 4X GPA! If paying that kind of premium is your thing then most certainly you came to the right place.  For example, one dealer was asking $65k for Hulk #1 in CGC 7.0 when sales at Heritage the past year are hovering around $30k.  

Ultimately it's about pushing material.  I would, however, be interested in reviewing what percentage of sales we're dealer to dealer versus those sold directly to collectors.  I saw dealers walking the con buying books to relist on their websites and auctions, but most collectors I saw left empty-handed.

What are a couple examples of books you were looking for an couldn't find - just curios? 

Is the 30k for the Hulk 1 including the 20% buyers premium?  If so the book becomes a 36K book to anyone who buys it on the site and sellers know it.  Can't comment on the 65k guy but if you see the book for 45K then the seller may assume people will probably want 20% off (everyone is cheap at Cons) so he may be hoping for the 36K people would be paying on Heritage.  We all know some people over price at Cons to hope a rich whale comes strolling by but once you break it down all Con dealers are there to make a sale and they know their competition is not only other dealers in the room but all available outlets.

Edited June 17, 2018 by 1Cool