Recent Glut of 1st Appearance Creations 0

[revat]

41 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Not really. It was part of the process that led from "Wolverine, the X-Man that Claremont and Cockrum hated" to "The X-Men, starring Wolverine" (#160-200) to "Wolverine, guest starring the Uncanny X-Men" (#201-300.)

X-Men #109 was the first glimmer of what would come, with Wolvie's first spotlight cover (and boy, what a cover.) But then, Wolvie didn't have a spotlight cover again for several more years (#133), and then only sporadically after that (#141-142, #162, #174.)

I ran the numbers a few years ago...the star of X-Men #94-#130 is really Storm, if we go by story and cover appearances. Claremont and Cockrum really liked her (and, so did the fans.)

What's interesting about Wolvie is that for the first 7 years of his existence, after Hulk #180-182, you see no appearances from him on his own in any other Marvel comics. It's not until What If? #31 that you find him on his own, and that's basically just a re-telling of Hulk #181. Wolvie appears in a handful of X-Men appearances...a cameo in ASM #161, MTU #53, Annual #1, Iron Fist #15, PM&IF #57, Rom #17, 18...but you never see him on his own until 1982. Now, granted, it's not like the others made appearances elsewhere, either, except Nightcrawler in the aforementioned ASM #161-162, but AFTER the Wolvie mini, Wolvie starts to pop up in the Marvel U on his own more regularly: DD #196, Firestar #2, DD #248-249, Web of Spiderman #29, Spiderman & Wolverine #1, Power Pack #19 and #27, Kitty Pryde & Wolvie, and by the late 80's he's all over the place on his own. 

The X-Men, if they appeared outside of their title, appeared almost exclusively as a team. Part of that was because of Claremont, but really, for a long time, it was The X-Men that people wanted...not just Storm, or Wolvie, or Colossus...but people wanted to see the team, because it was their interaction together that made them such a hit.

Storm was really the key for the Claremont NEW X-men in that time period, and I think rightfully so. 

[Lazyboy]

5 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

You're such a sweet talker. You just keep on being a complete person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed. You have a talent for it.

And you don't, right? Does your glass house have even a single unbroken pane?

I really do not appreciate being compared to Jaydogrules.

6 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

Seems like he could get his point across without the abrasiveness though.

I save the abrasiveness for a certain level of post and/or poster. I'm pretty sure you do the same.

6 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

I remember his dickish attitude towards people when the new boards went live. Leopard doesn't change his spots. An intelligent d-bag is still a d-bag

And there it is.

I tried to help the people who wanted help. I was less kind to the whiny, idiotic clowns who personally attacked me (and others) for daring to say the upgrading of the boards wasn't the worst atrocity in the history of the world, especially when their questions and complains were addressed in stickied threads like this. Maybe you should go back and see who initiated the hostilities back then and how many objectively abrasive posts I made.

[Prince Namor]

On 6/30/2018 at 1:28 PM, BeholdersEye said:

Is it my imagination or does it feel that Marvel and DC are pushing out mediocre new characters, often remix/reimagined (not so creative at times) variations of existing characters, and with greater frequency now, with the possible agenda of this marketing tactic to replace the "Variant Covers" they've been flooding the market with, to increase orders and sales by speculators?

I envision seeing every issue with an introduction to some new character in a cameo, then as a civilian, and then the origin in costume, heroes, villains and supporting characters alike.

I think everyone is looking for "the next" fill in the blank hot character of today, or grail key of yesteryear, so this seems like what's happening in modern comics today.

The problem I see in the market is people are hording books, flipping them and driving prices up what seems to be prematurely without the character having time to evolve, earn a fan base and capture (and captivate) and audience as was done in the past with time for people to search for back-issues instead of picking 'em up hot off the press, going to the LCS, bagging/boarding then submitting to CGC in one fell swoop.

No, not really.

Heck, Marvel created a whole new universe of new characters once back in the late-80’s. (New Universe)

For as long as I’ve been reading comics (1971-72), Comic Book publisher’s have always looked at it like this:

Glut the market.

 

But what you MAY be seeing is the variant cover market giving a false impression of so many more comics…

 

In December 1985, Marvel had 60 (SIXTY!) titles released that month, including Sisterhood of Steel, Top Dog, Planet Terry, Wally the Wizard… remember any of these? LOL. Trying to glut the market.

 

10 years later, January 1995, they had 103 titles released that month, including Barbie, Barbie Fashion, Blackwulf, Fantastic Force, Force Works, Nightthrasher, Nightmare, Nightwatch, SIX Punisher titles, FOURTEEN Spider-man related titles (15 if you include Silver Sable), and SEVENTEEN X-Men related titles.

Glutting the market.

 

10 years later, January 2005, they had 89 titles including Arana the Heart of the Spider, District X, Doctor Spectrum, Madrox, Marvel Knights junk, Pulse, and a whopping 24 X-Men related titles. Still trying to glut the market.

 

2015: 160 titles but 74 are variants! = 86 actual titles

Think about how much more space it would take to showcase all of those extra books, which are the SAME comics, just with different covers! See how that could glut the comic rack and make it seem like there are so many more?

[Lazyboy]

17 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

No, not really.

How is that related to his point? He's talking about the growing legions of (highly) derivative "new" characters appearing in Marvel and DC comics and the speculators flocking to them as if they are guaranteed to be the next big thing, and you're talking about... the number of books being published by Marvel?

[Prince Namor]

9 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

How is that related to his point? He's talking about the growing legions of (highly) derivative "new" characters appearing in Marvel and DC comics and the speculators flocking to them as if they are guaranteed to be the next big thing, and you're talking about... the number of books being published by Marvel?

The very first paragraph he asks if it feels like “Marvel and DC are pushing out mediocre new characters, often remix/reimagined (not so creative at times) variations of existing characters, and with greater frequency now, with the possible agenda of this marketing tactic to replace the "Variant Covers" they've been flooding the market with, to increase orders and sales by speculators?”

My answer was “no, not really.”

To me, it doesn’t appear they’re doing it with any more frequency than they ever have. 

Do you even read half the posts you respond to, or do you just come out guns a blazing in every response?

 

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

My answer was “no, not really.”

To me, it doesn’t appear they’re doing it with any more frequency than they ever have. 

From here, it seems like there has been a surge recently.

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

Do you even read half the posts you respond to

Yes.

Do you comprehend the posts you respond to? What does "But what you MAY be seeing is the variant cover market giving a false impression of so many more comics…" have to do with Hulkverine or Red Goblin or Cosmic Ghost Rider or Lobo's Daughter?

[Prince Namor]

56 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

From here, it seems like there has been a surge recently.

 

What IS and what appears to be are two different things. Per this and our last conversation, you obviously have an issue comprehending this, and so... you, the biggest troll on these boards is going on my ignore list. 

I just can't waste my time in discussion with grouchy old men who are baffled by simple concepts like reality vs perception.

Quote

Yes.

Do you comprehend the posts you respond to? What does "But what you MAY be seeing is the variant cover market giving a false impression of so many more comics…" have to do with Hulkverine or Red Goblin or Cosmic Ghost Rider or Lobo's Daughter?

I'll go real slow, for this last point:

Actually, no I won't. Not worth my time.

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Chuck Gower

[500Club]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

4 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

My answer was “no, not really.”

To me, it doesn’t appear they’re doing it with any more frequency than they ever have. 

 From here, it seems like there has been a surge recently.

I’m trying to suss out whether there’s been a surge, or whether it’s simply the new rage to chase every single new character appearance, no matter how significant, and hype each and every one on internet message boards.  I think it’s a bit of both.  The gestalt, to me, was that there was a period in the aughts when very few new characters were being created relative to the historical norm, so I think there has been an increase lately.  But I think the spotlight effect is magnifying the perception.

[Lazyboy]

1 minute ago, 500Club said:

But I think the spotlight effect is magnifying the perception.

I do agree with that, but I think the publishers are starting to change their tactics to use the speculation to their advantage.

[Prince Namor]

44 minutes ago, 500Club said:

I’m trying to suss out whether there’s been a surge, or whether it’s simply the new rage to chase every single new character appearance, no matter how significant, and hype each and every one on internet message boards.  

 

Right. More information is more information, just not necessarily more of whatever it is they're talking about.

44 minutes ago, 500Club said:

I think it’s a bit of both.  The gestalt, to me, was that there was a period in the aughts when very few new characters were being created relative to the historical norm, so I think there has been an increase lately.  But I think the spotlight effect is magnifying the perception.

 

I can see that...

[Prince Namor]

From Wikipedia:

In the 2000’s you had: Noh-Varr (Captain Marvel), Sentry, Doop and X-Statix, The Exiles, Jessica Jones, Fantomex, The Runaways (all 6 of them), Phyla-Vell, X-23, Daisy Johnson, New X-Men (Mutant Squad), New X-Men (Hellions Squad), Winter Solider, Amadeus Cho, S.W.O.R.D., Maria Hill, The Young Avengers, Gravity, Darwin, Ant-Man, Bob - Agent of Hydra, Hope Summers, Victoria Hand, Red Hulk, Skaar, A-Bomb, New Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Warriors, She-Hulk (Lyra), Blue Marvel, and Red She-Hulk.

 

In the 2010’s (8 years so far): Avengers Academy, Future Foundation, Annihilators, Agent Venom, Miss America, Nova (Sam Alexander), White Tiger, Alpha, Superior Spider-man, Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan), Silk, Spider-Gwen, Gwenpool, Ironheart, Cosmic Ghost Rider.

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

From Wikipedia:

In the 2000’s you had: Noh-Varr (Captain Marvel), Sentry, Doop and X-Statix, The Exiles, Jessica Jones, Fantomex, The Runaways (all 6 of them), Phyla-Vell, X-23, Daisy Johnson, New X-Men (Mutant Squad), New X-Men (Hellions Squad), Winter Solider, Amadeus Cho, S.W.O.R.D., Maria Hill, The Young Avengers, Gravity, Darwin, Ant-Man, Bob - Agent of Hydra, Hope Summers, Victoria Hand, Red Hulk, Skaar, A-Bomb, New Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Warriors, She-Hulk (Lyra), Blue Marvel, and Red She-Hulk.

 

In the 2010’s (8 years so far): Avengers Academy, Future Foundation, Annihilators, Agent Venom, Miss America, Nova (Sam Alexander), White Tiger, Alpha, Superior Spider-man, Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan), Silk, Spider-Gwen, Gwenpool, Ironheart, Cosmic Ghost Rider.

Does 2010's mean 2010 to present day?  If so they need to update that Wiki page.

Grail (Darkseid's daughter), Red Goblin, the new guy in Action Comics 1000...just example of 3 that popped into my head right away.

And that list includes Ironheart (female Iron Man)...so that means it needs to include Jane Foster as Female Thor, Falcon as the new Captain America, etc.

 

Too complicated to keep track of

[kimik]

More 1st apps is fine with me. More $$$ to make.

Edited July 5, 2018 by kimik

[kimik]

On 7/3/2018 at 9:46 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Not really. It was part of the process that led from "Wolverine, the X-Man that Claremont and Cockrum hated" to "The X-Men, starring Wolverine" (#160-200) to "Wolverine, guest starring the Uncanny X-Men" (#201-300.)

X-Men #109 was the first glimmer of what would come, with Wolvie's first spotlight cover (and boy, what a cover.) But then, Wolvie didn't have a spotlight cover again for several more years (#133), and then only sporadically after that (#141-142, #162, #174.)

I ran the numbers a few years ago...the star of X-Men #94-#130 is really Storm, if we go by story and cover appearances. Claremont and Cockrum really liked her (and, so did the fans.)

What's interesting about Wolvie is that for the first 7 years of his existence, after Hulk #180-182, you see no appearances from him on his own in any other Marvel comics. It's not until What If? #31 that you find him on his own, and that's basically just a re-telling of Hulk #181. Wolvie appears in a handful of X-Men appearances...a cameo in ASM #161, MTU #53, Annual #1, Iron Fist #15, PM&IF #57, Rom #17, 18...but you never see him on his own until 1982. Now, granted, it's not like the others made appearances elsewhere, either, except Nightcrawler in the aforementioned ASM #161-162, but AFTER the Wolvie mini, Wolvie starts to pop up in the Marvel U on his own more regularly: DD #196, Firestar #2, DD #248-249, Web of Spiderman #29, Spiderman & Wolverine #1, Power Pack #19 and #27, Kitty Pryde & Wolvie, and by the late 80's he's all over the place on his own. 

The X-Men, if they appeared outside of their title, appeared almost exclusively as a team. Part of that was because of Claremont, but really, for a long time, it was The X-Men that people wanted...not just Storm, or Wolvie, or Colossus...but people wanted to see the team, because it was their interaction together that made them such a hit.

If I recall correctly, there was some level of interest in Wolvie after the first IH 180-182 arc. I can remember reading a letters page in a subsequent issue that had a few comments/questions from fans (one was Shooter or another 80s creator if I recall correctly) that they liked the character and asked when he would appear next. The editor hinted it would be soon. I think that is why he was included in the new lineup - there was some fan interest in him from the Hulk appearance. He did not become a superstar character until the 1980s, though.

Edited July 5, 2018 by kimik

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

Does 2010's mean 2010 to present day?  If so they need to update that Wiki page.

Grail (Darkseid's daughter), Red Goblin, the new guy in Action Comics 1000...just example of 3 that popped into my head right away.

And that list includes Ironheart (female Iron Man)...so that means it needs to include Jane Foster as Female Thor, Falcon as the new Captain America, etc.

 

Too complicated to keep track of

It's a list of Marvel heroes, so it wouldn't include villains or DC characters.

And I guess it didn't include Jane Foster or the Falcon, as they aren't new characters.

No one is chasing the first appearance of Jane Foster as Thor in the actual Marvel Universe, or Falcon as Captain America in the actual Marvel Universe, because they're not new characters, or playing new characters.  If Jane Foster became...'Hammer Woman' or something, it might warrant a speculation. But everyone knows, these aren't changes that will last.

And even adding Red Goblin still has to compete with multiple Green Goblins, multiple Hobgoblins, Jack-o-Lantern, to some degree the Jackyl.

Marvel and DC have expanded their universe through character familiarity for many decades.