Dealers / Rinse and Repeat model 7 7

[lou_fine]

9 hours ago, valiantman said:

11 hours ago, namisgr said:

Back to the topic of 'rinse and repeat':

The oldest and most successful model for making money in the hobby was once based on buying and holding.  If you bought desirable books before the advent of CGC you've seen most of them appreciate markedly in value since then. 

The caveat is that many buyers before CGC bought trimmed, color-touched, or otherwise altered books without knowing it.  Some believe that an unrestored book sold to them as NM would be 9.4 if they had it graded.  It might be 8.5.  How many first-time CGC submitters get a rude awakening?  All those decades of pre-CGC raw high grade universal keys... may not be. There's absolutely a reason that some (not all) dealers refuse to use CGC.  It's because they would lose money.  Overgrading (and manipulating) raw books has always been the most profitable model. It took CGC's arrival to stop/slow some of the worst offenders.

And yet if you look at what's happening in today's marketplace, it would appear that we have definitely not learned from our past mistakes.  

It's just that the undisclosed manipulation of books has become much more subtle and rationalized as beneficial since it adds value to the book, as long as the potential purchaser is not made aware of what was done to the book.  Especially in light of the fact that this undisclosed and manipulative practice is not only encouraged by the grading companies, but strongly supported as it adds additional streams of revenues to both their top line and to their bottom line.  

Similar in a way to how restoration was seen as a beneficial practice way back in the late 70's and early 80's as it was deemed to add value to an unrestored book.  So much so, that Overstreet even dedicated an entire section in his guide with charts and graphs for trying to determine the incremental value of restored books over unrestored books, based upon the type and extent of work done to them.  

Isn't it amazing how the perceptions of collectors can changed so dramatically over an extended period of time.  I can actually imagine and even foresee the day whereby advancing technology allows us to come up with a cost effective method to identify the undisclosed manipulative practices being done on books today.  If so, I can certainly see the marketplace perception changing once again so that they would place a much higher value on the true unrestored books as compared to the "artificially improved" unrestored books of today.  

 

[lou_fine]

9 hours ago, DanCooper said:

11 hours ago, namisgr said:

The oldest and most successful model for making money in the hobby was once based on buying and holding.

This. This was and still remains the most successful way to ensure a profit when it comes time to sell. Whether it be in comics or the stock market.

You are starting to sound a bit like Warren Buffet here who states "that the stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient."  

It's probably likewise with the comic book market also.  

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And Valiantman's example, showing that the best "investment" in the last few years would have been a bunch of 4.0 Hulk #181s signals the end of the cheap lower grade "mega key."

When I see this scenario taking place, it signals to me that the book in question is starting to cross over from being primarily a graded label collectible to now becoming a true vintage comic book collectible.    

[jools&jim]

10 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is unprecedented, uncharted water. I guess we'll see where it takes us.

Right down the tubes...? 

[DavidTheDavid]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:35 AM, blazingbob said:

Can I put out there that the only time I have to look at other dealers books is before the show opens.  

I VERY rarely get to walk around and look at other dealers inventory while a show is going on.  Why you ask?  Because I'm supposed to be back at my booth trying to sell my books,  making sure books are not being stolen,  answering questions etc.  If you think that at the end of the show I'm looking at other dealers books you are sadly mistaken.  I'm tired, hungry and want to go home.  So do a lot of other dealers.  And since a lot of other dealers very rarely come in early to setup that puts even more pressure on my time when I do get to look at something.

How bad is theft at shows?

[blazingbob]

Theft is bad enough that you need to pay attention all day long.

There have been a number of professional rings working shows,  there are guys that I have caught doing the slip a book under what they are carrying.  At certain shows there are thieves that have been photographed and we send their picture around the show.  

There are thieves over the years that do the look left/look right,  shift a small batch of books to the front of your boxes.

San Diego big bags are great for the pick and drop into the bag.

When you have something stolen from you it is VERY hard not to think everybody is a thief.

I do not generally allow customers behind to look at my wall books.

Why do you ask?  When one person is facing the back wall helping the "person" looking there is only one person looking forward to scan 20 feet back and forth.  If they are helping a customer on one end the other end is not being watched.  Having a box stolen at a NY Comicon show I'm not a big fan of having people behind the booth.  It may also be "perceived" that I'm not paying attention to what you are saying when you are at my booth.  Unfortunately I have to watch and chat with you at the same time.

Shall I go on?

Edited August 20, 2018 by blazingbob

[Pirate]

On 8/19/2018 at 12:42 AM, greggy said:

Just bought 29 more sweet romance books from Bob's site.

You snooze, you lose.

xoxo

greggy

Only 29 out of 400+?

[batman_fan]

9 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Theft is bad enough that you need to pay attention all day long.

There have been a number of professional rings working shows,  there are guys that I have caught doing the slip a book under what they are carrying.  At certain shows there are thieves that have been photographed and we send their picture around the show.  

There are thieves over the years that do the look left/look right,  shift a small batch of books to the front of your boxes.

San Diego big bags are great for the pick and drop into the bag.

When you have something stolen from you it is VERY hard not to think everybody is a thief.

I do not generally allow customers behind to look at my wall books.

Why do you ask?  When one person is facing the back wall helping the "person" looking there is only one person looking forward to scan 20 feet back and forth.  If they are helping a customer on one end the other end is not being watched.  Having a box stolen at a NY Comicon show I'm not a big fan of having people behind the booth.  It may also be "perceived" that I'm not paying attention to what you are saying when you are at my booth.  Unfortunately I have to watch and chat with you at the same time.

Shall I go on?

I would think this is one of the most frustrating parts of the business. It would be hard not to get violent with someone that steals books and when a show is busy it is hard to watch everyone. 

I think if you are a buyer and the dealer doesn’t know you? You have to assume they are keeping an eye on you. Yet another reason for building a relationship with dealers. 

[Iceman399]

On 8/19/2018 at 12:42 AM, greggy said:

Just bought 29 more sweet romance books from Bob's site.

You snooze, you lose.

xoxo

greggy

No wonder why I got a text telling me to buy all the romance books...apparently we can't let you have them all.

[1Cool]

4 hours ago, batman_fan said:

I would think this is one of the most frustrating parts of the business. It would be hard not to get violent with someone that steals books and when a show is busy it is hard to watch everyone. 

I think if you are a buyer and the dealer doesn’t know you? You have to assume they are keeping an eye on you. Yet another reason for building a relationship with dealers. 

This came up yesterday at a small local Con.  The local dealer was lamenting about big books that have gone missing and even talked about a time when the thief switched out big ticket item books with low cost slabs so that it wasn't instantly apparent slabs where missing.  Its sad that pretty much every big dealer has a couple stories about bad Cons which had lax security and they lost books.

Edited August 20, 2018 by 1Cool

[1Cool]

The current market of course came up yesterday and people were kind of shell shocked about the IH 181 explosion and really just the current key market right now.  I heard bubble mentioned a couple times but no one was in "sky is falling" mode.  All of the dealers seem to have a good show and books were selling quickly - so all must be right in the world.

[HENRYSPENCER]

On 8/16/2018 at 2:53 PM, blazingbob said:

I would not say that over time you become jaded.  Unfortunately with customers that I know for a few years I tend to know ahead of time who is easy to work with and those who will grind you down to the point of telling them to go F off.  Now before readers of this go and say "Is he talking about me you know who you are". 

First time customers can determine their responses by a number of things that give them away.

1).  When you are tapping away on your phone I know you are on GPA.  When you see me tapping away I'm looking up my cost into the book.

2).  Flipping open the price guide.  You are a OSPG guide buyer and the only thing I need to find out is what percentage of guide type buyer you are.  Slamming the book shut quickly is not a good result on my end.

3).  Taking 3 hours to make a buying decision.  You have a limited budget and are doing math in your head to determine what percentage of the pile you will buy.  Your offer generally comes in pretty close to your credit limit or cash in the wallet.

4).  "I'm just curious" means you have NO money and are wasting my time.  Very few "I'm just curious" customers ever buy something.  The Bob or John face is what you will usually get.

5).  "What is your most expensive book".  Again you have no money and are basically wasting my time.  I'm not a museum and while you are trying to impress your wife,  girlfriend on what she should have let him buy years ago it basically results in No sale on my end.

6).  Quoting GPA will generally result in my finger tapping on my phone.  Playing games with GPA like picking which average works for you doesn't always result in good responses.  

7).  Asking me if i want to "Turn this over quick" on a $45K book and offering me $30K will result in a pretty fast response.  It is generally not a good one.

8).  Fair offers result in sales.

9).  Trade as payment is not Retail for Retail.  I am taking on YOUR expense/time of selling the book.  

10).  Commenting that you don't want to pay higher prices for "Graded books" won't get me to lower the price.  It is YOUR choice not to buy graded books.  It is MY choice to sell them.

Bob, what's going through your head when a customer instructs you on how to mail them their package?

[blazingbob]

When a customer instructs me on how to mail their package I'm guessing that they don't know how many packages I send out a week.

They must also think that I have a warehouse full of shipping supplies and that every CGC book regardless of what they paid for shipping is shipped "Bomb proof".

While I appreciate that there are those out there that do that type of packing I am not that person. 

I do the best I can within the shipping limitations and handling that all of the carriers provide.

None of them are the best.  Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

[electricprune]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:20 PM, blazingbob said:

Four magazine boxes of raw romance books are being graded as I type.  Hope your want lists are up to date

 

Ugh, greggy is going to beat me to them in Chicago! ?

[blazingbob]

Greg has already paid and his order is on the way.

51 books were ordered this morning so I'm not sure why you would be waiting for Chicago.

Edited August 20, 2018 by blazingbob

[Not A Clone]

2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

When a customer instructs me on how to mail their package I'm guessing that they don't know how many packages I send out a week.

They must also think that I have a warehouse full of shipping supplies and that every CGC book regardless of what they paid for shipping is shipped "Bomb proof".

While I appreciate that there are those out there that do that type of packing I am not that person. 

I do the best I can within the shipping limitations and handling that all of the carriers provide.

None of them are the best.  Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

So this wasn't from your bubble wrap warehouse? 

[Not A Clone]

7 hours ago, 1Cool said:

The current market of course came up yesterday and people were kind of shell shocked about the IH 181 explosion and really just the current key market right now.  I heard bubble mentioned a couple times but no one was in "sky is falling" mode.  All of the dealers seem to have a good show and books were selling quickly - so all must be right in the world.

What show? I need to find me some little local shows. I miss those. I can't do anymore Wizards. Anything near C-Bus?

[electricprune]

2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Greg has already paid and his order is on the way.

51 books were ordered this morning so I'm not sure why you would be waiting for Chicago.

I’d prefer to deal in person. That way we get to talk about why greggy has reached Elite Dork status, rivaled by only a select few.?

[DR.X]

8 minutes ago, electricprune said:

 That way we get to talk about why greggy has reached Elite Dork status, rivaled by only a select few.?

He reached that status eons ago. The man has no shame to him at all.

[N e r V]

21 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Theft is bad enough that you need to pay attention all day long.

There have been a number of professional rings working shows,  there are guys that I have caught doing the slip a book under what they are carrying.  At certain shows there are thieves that have been photographed and we send their picture around the show.  

There are thieves over the years that do the look left/look right,  shift a small batch of books to the front of your boxes.

San Diego big bags are great for the pick and drop into the bag.

When you have something stolen from you it is VERY hard not to think everybody is a thief.

I do not generally allow customers behind to look at my wall books.

Why do you ask?  When one person is facing the back wall helping the "person" looking there is only one person looking forward to scan 20 feet back and forth.  If they are helping a customer on one end the other end is not being watched.  Having a box stolen at a NY Comicon show I'm not a big fan of having people behind the booth.  It may also be "perceived" that I'm not paying attention to what you are saying when you are at my booth.  Unfortunately I have to watch and chat with you at the same time.

Shall I go on?

 

When I did shows I never had anything stolen by another dealer (probably because if I couldn’t get legal results they knew I would physically hurt them at some point  ) but I did know other dealers who lifted merchandise from other dealers. This happened not only during the event but at those times before and after hours where not everyone leaves or enters at the same time. I still see some of those dealers at shows. I walked up one year to one of them and said “I saw what you did and know who you are” (it’s a really old movie title. Lol). They looked at me with the most awkward expression. 

If you are going into business you know at some point you are going to get screwed one way or another. You’re best attitude is to minimize your losses by being as smart and careful as possible and when it happens only react if you could do something different to improve the situation otherwise move on with a lesser attitude about your fellow man. 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by N e r V