Can you grade this TOS 39? 2 2

[DR.X]

3 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

I'm not sure if that's a stain or just the way the light is playing off of it in that pic. Other pics showing that part of the cover don't appear to have a stain. 

I know but in the one pic it does look like a stain. I still think those huge diagonal creases are going to keep it from the posted grades.

[Soundwaves favorite song]

5 hours ago, DR.X said:

I know but in the one pic it does look like a stain. I still think those huge diagonal creases are going to keep it from the posted grades.

I would agree with you but a few things, if the book is pressed most of that is going to press flat....and the color covers are light so the creases do not pop through the color as badly as they would on a black or darker cover...they will press enough they will be harder to even spot, although anywhere they break the color they will be visible. A tricky thing having to do with grading but it has to be learned over time is....don't always look at a book as it would be such and such a grade but all this lowers it to ....whatever. Sometimes you have to take a lower grade and point to the positives and attempt to argue, those things will lift it higher...while the book has some issues, it doesn't exactly have to be perfect to score a 4.0 or 4.5 even...you have a lot of room for issues in those grades, and the book does bring bright colors, and present itself well...it is complete and all attached as well. Only tine will tell but I can tell you Jon Warren of the Overstreet price guide held this book in his hand, examined it thoroughly and gave it a solid 4.5 himself.His grade was without pressing or cleaning it, either so......things to consider.

[JollyComics]

I followed that grade on the label.  Hope CGSA didn't miss the restoration.

[Soundwaves favorite song]

8 hours ago, lightninglad said:

I am far from a professional grader, but it has the look of a book that's been trimmed.

In 1989 Jon Warren graded the book in person and saw no restoration or trimming...he gave it a 4.5 himself. In 1992 Robert Rotor and the staff at Paccific Comic Exchange graded it and found no trimming nor restoration either. They gave it the graded sleeve you see in the pictures , at solid VG

[DR.X]

15 minutes ago, Soundwaves favorite song said:

I would agree with you but a few things, if the book is pressed most of that is going to press flat....and the color covers are light so the creases do not pop through the color as badly as they would on a black or darker cover...they will press enough they will be harder to even spot, although anywhere they break the color they will be visible. A tricky thing having to do with grading but it has to be learned over time is....don't always look at a book as it would be such and such a grade but all this lowers it to ....whatever. Sometimes you have to take a lower grade and point to the positives and attempt to argue, those things will lift it higher...while the book has some issues, it doesn't exactly have to be perfect to score a 4.0 or 4.5 even...you have a lot of room for issues in those grades, and the book does bring bright colors, and present itself well...it is complete and all attached as well. Only tine will tell but I can tell you Jon Warren of the Overstreet price guide held this book in his hand, examined it thoroughly and gave it a solid 4.5 himself.His grade was without pressing or cleaning it, either so......things to consider.

you can press it till doomsday, but he a color breaking crease is still there.

[Soundwaves favorite song]

I offer there is more to grading a book than forming an opinion and then knocking the book down for any visible flaws, you also have to weigh the positives it has into the equation. Grading is subjective and more art than science Here are some examples of books in 4.0 or higher being currently offered on ebay and Metropolis comics.First images are  a 4.0 avengers listed for sale on ebay....ink writing on both covers and highly intrusive but still a 4.0    Next book is a CBCS 4.0 grade....notice the corner entirely missing, the corner with huge flattened creases and the subscription crease from top to bottom on the book , which has been pressed flat but is still perceptible....still a 4.0    Next book is offered by Metropolis comics as a 5.5 FINE - note it is TRIMMED on all three edges, and the cover has large creases everywhere, but they are selling it as a 5.5 no less. When I say my copy is a 4.5 I am being conservative based on current market sales and grading examples I feel. You can hammer a book all you like for a defect or two...but you also have to take into account the books good characteristics

[DR.X]

2 hours ago, Soundwaves favorite song said:

I offer there is more to grading a book than forming an opinion and then knocking the book down for any visible flaws, you also have to weigh the positives it has into the equation. Grading is subjective and more art than science Here are some examples of books in 4.0 or higher being currently offered on ebay and Metropolis comics.First images are  a 4.0 avengers listed for sale on ebay....ink writing on both covers and highly intrusive but still a 4.0    Next book is a CBCS 4.0 grade....notice the corner entirely missing, the corner with huge flattened creases and the subscription crease from top to bottom on the book , which has been pressed flat but is still perceptible....still a 4.0    Next book is offered by Metropolis comics as a 5.5 FINE - note it is TRIMMED on all three edges, and the cover has large creases everywhere, but they are selling it as a 5.5 no less. When I say my copy is a 4.5 I am being conservative based on current market sales and grading examples I feel. You can hammer a book all you like for a defect or two...but you also have to take into account the books good characteristics

You came in here asking for opinions. You don't like my opinion. And I am not " hammering " your book, must giving you my opinion. You can pound that book into oblivion but those break long break lines are still there. And as far as comparing to Metro's raw grading give me a break. And I never was a fan of the " grading is subjective ". It is what it is. And welcome to the boards.

[Soundwaves favorite song]

I do appreciate your effort and time, sorry if I seem combative....thanks for weighing in for sure. I  think where I made a mistake is , that you never offered a solid grade, you simply detracted from all previous suggested grades , due the books flaws. Would you like to offer your opinion then what grade the book might bring?Grading IS subjective...that is a basic fact . Do the ink markings on the copy I posted constitute a heavier hit on grade than the creases you have focused on with my own issue? Does a one inch crease drop a quarter grade while a two inch crease drops it a full half grade? It it has blown staples does that lower the grade more than water stains? Is tanning more offensive than a clipped coupon? Does a missing piece a quarter inch on the back cover constitute a larger hit than a quarter inch crease on the front cover? All of those things are ...subjective , book by book case by case and grader by grader, sorry but they are. And even then....a grader on a day where life is working perfectly might place a book as a 6.0....then he goes home, gets some bad news and his wife and him have a fight...the following day that same book might very well score  a 5.0 because that is....human nature, which is entirely subjective . They are not machines, and they are prone to errors, which is why cracking and resubbing is so popular among professional collectors. Thanks for your welcome and sorry if I stepped on your toes....I hope you have a wonderfuly day Sir

Edited September 1, 2018 by Soundwaves favorite song

[DR.X]

I'll make it a point not to look any more of your books. And to me grading is subjective when someone can't grade worth a krap.

[Soundwaves favorite song]

The previous discussion I am fairly sure demonstrates precisely why grading is considered subjective...it shapes itself around people's own asthetic towards both the good and bad points of a vintage comic book. I do point to the fact no grade was ever offered, only questioning everyone else's.......if that isn't attacking a book it is at least giving the perception of doing so.Thanks for everyone who took the time and effort to grade my comic for me...I appreciate it

[DR.X]

you need to get a thicker skin around here.

[Soundwaves favorite song]

Thanks for your appraisal....

[obiedagod]

3.5

[flashlites]

1 hour ago, obiedagod said:

3.5

Well I guess I was off by .5 but close. Still to have that book in any grade?! You are a fortunate Iron Man fan indeed!

[The-Collector]

4.0. I won't comment on trimming as that is very difficult to determine in person let alone with pictures. 

[timfinz]

Spoiler

4.5 IMHO!