Newton Rings
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Just my 2 cents, I would much rather have the new holders than the old holders, even with a bad case of Newton Ringitis. I actually really like the new holders but I guess the rings don't bother me as much. The rings used to be on the old Comic Fortresses I used back in the day, too.

Edited by CCComics

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Here are a few screen shots from ebay sellers. Only a few of the many people making excuses for CGC. Really sad IMO that no one wants to even buy or sell these slabs. I think they should make things right and replace them all., Tired of having doorstops that are supposed to be displays.

 

NR1.JPG

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On 10/14/2018 at 9:14 PM, CCComics said:

Just my 2 cents, I would much rather have the new holders than the old holders, even with a bad case of Newton Ringitis. I actually really like the new holders but I guess the rings don't bother me as much. The rings used to be on the old Comic Fortresses I used back in the day, too.

Two cents is more than I'd give you for a holder with Newton Rings.  If you like them, you're welcome to them, no harm, no foul.

I've read weak mea culpas and excuses for inconsistencies in the current product, ...none of them hold water (no pun intended).  Disclaimers to the contrary, the oily appearance is uniquely endemic to the newer "SOTA" holders.  The rainbow effect that cropped up occasionally on older holders was much more uniform, not blotchy and clearly the result of two plastics touching.  Most often the prism effect would show up in scans in an arc across the base or at the top in a broad swath, occasionally with Barex inner capsule puckered and making contact with the hard outer plastic shell.  It wasn't an oily, blotchy effect completely degrading display of encapsulated books.  

If dealer's are feeling heat from customers and under pressure to place "no returns" disclaimers on for sale books, then the problem is reaching a critical mass, IMO.  Auction houses certainly don't want to deal with complaints arising from it.  This issue cannot be explained away or dealt with by suggesting that it's an acceptable side effect of encapsulation in the "new improved" holders.

Of two high grade CGC "SOTA" new holdered books purchased from dealers in the past year one had Newton Rings, the other didn't, I can't speak to anyone else's impressions, but in my estimation a 50% failure rate is unacceptable.  The book that had the oily NR blotches was purchased off eBay and wasn't clearly imaged from a scan.  The prism effect wasn't excessive, but any is too much from my perspective.  I didn't return the book nor take issue with the dealer's listing, but I am having the book reholdered at my own expense with the guarantee of the third party grading service that it won't have this problem.  

While I'm on the topic of disappointing visuals, another problem with the new holders is the increased depth of the tray (front of book).  The wider rim plays havoc with scanning via my HP 8300 Scanjet, refracting more light and washing out the image.  When I requested advice on how to correct this problem one person recommended adjusting the settings on my scanner.  After consideration, I decided it would require too much hassle changing settings every time books were scanned in different holders.  It's much easier just avoiding the newer holders altogether.

As a tankard half full kinda guy, maybe someone at CGC can pitch the idea of making a promotional documentary on encapsulation to Peter Jackson based on Tolkien's mythology.  As a working title I'd suggest Lord of The Newton Rings, ...with the goal of fixing these bad hobbits before they end up at Mount Doom.  ¬¬

Edited by Cat-Man_America

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:signfunny: Yeah, I think CGC should totally redesign the depth of the tray of the holder so they won't play havoc while scanning books. Didn't they know that at least one person will be using a HP 8300 Scanjet? And that the wider  rim will refract more light and wash out the image while scanning? How dare you CGC?? :roflmao:

Edited by CCComics

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On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:21 PM, CGC Comics said:

Note: this was originally posted on page 15 of a thread in Comics General on August 31st. We're creating it as an announcement to make it easier to find.

The “rainbow effect” or “Newton rings” are a normal occurrence when two different plastics (which have different refractive indexes) are placed together. It’s what you sometimes see on a smartphone screen protector or on the edges of an LCD screen. 

The rainbow effect has been seen in CGC holders since our first-generation holder was introduced nearly 20 years ago. This is a result of the inner sleeve (which holds the book) contacting the hard-plastic outer shell; the two different plastics have different refractive indexes and that sometimes creates a rainbow effect when they come into contact. A minor rainbow effect has always been within our tolerance. If anyone feels that they have a book that exhibits an extreme rainbow effect, however, we encourage you to contact our Customer Service at submissions@cgccomics.com.

Behind the scenes, we are constantly working to improve the CGC holder. Most recently, we have made a slight modification to the inner dimensions of our standard holder to accommodate the increasing variety of comic book sizes and paper stocks. In our testing, this minor modification was also shown to reduce the presence of the rainbow effect for many books. We did not want to share our findings until our thorough testing was complete, and now that it is, we are pleased to report that these modified holders have been fully integrated into our encapsulation process with very positive results.

CGC continues to research enhancements to its holders, including ones that may further reduce the rainbow effect, and we will keep you updated with any noteworthy developments.

Thanks again.

 

Example of extreme rainbow effect:

saga.jpg

ghost rider.jpg

Keep up the good work guys you are doing great stuff :)

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 6:17 PM, Ride the Tiger said:

Here are a few screen shots from ebay sellers. Only a few of the many people making excuses for CGC. Really sad IMO that no one wants to even buy or sell these slabs. I think they should make things right and replace them all., Tired of having doorstops that are supposed to be displays.

 

NR1.JPG

NR2.JPG

NR3.JPG

NR4.JPG

NR5.JPG

not everyone person is trying to flip a profit from slabs so for us who just collect for personal enjoyment don't care for the rings in any way but id rather have rings instead of my book being destroyed by slipping down a case like my iron man issue suffered

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Not just to flip. If you had a family emergency come up and you needed cash wouldn't you want to know you could sell your slabs without any issues?

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I really don't see this whole meltdown (or as a previous post has it at critical mass) that a book in a holder that has Newton rings is sooooo undesirable, that no one wants them. Or that people selling their books on eBay now have to put disclaimers in their listings about the rings. It looks more like they are having problems in general about people wanting refunds for any reason they come up with. And I haven't noticed any Auction houses or other dealers feeling heat and having to put a "no returns" just because of the rings, that's just a policy alot of people have on graded books. Maybe I'm overlooking it or just haven't noticed. I've never not bought a book because of any degree of Newton rings. If there would be any issues in selling your books for any reason, it would probably be the books themselves rather than a few Newton rings.

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2 hours ago, CCComics said:

I really don't see this whole meltdown (or as a previous post has it at critical mass) that a book in a holder that has Newton rings is sooooo undesirable, that no one wants them. Or that people selling their books on eBay now have to put disclaimers in their listings about the rings. It looks more like they are having problems in general about people wanting refunds for any reason they come up with. And I haven't noticed any Auction houses or other dealers feeling heat and having to put a "no returns" just because of the rings, that's just a policy alot of people have on graded books. Maybe I'm overlooking it or just haven't noticed. I've never not bought a book because of any degree of Newton rings. If there would be any issues in selling your books for any reason, it would probably be the books themselves rather than a few Newton rings.

I collect almost exclusively high-grade Silver Age, so the books on my want list are hard enough to find that the last thing I'm going to do is refuse to buy one over the case.  I don't care if the case is cracked, so long as I'm certain the book itself is undamaged.  I can always get a book reholdered, and if I want to press the issue I can always ask the seller to drop the price a little for that.  I also take the advice I've been given and I never put my books on display.

However, if I were collecting modern 9.8s I would be much more likely to get upset over Newton rings and avoid buying books that have them, especially if I were displaying them.  I'm putting together a Spidey run and I'm much more finicky about every aspect of each book (centering, case, etc.) later in the run where my target grade is 9.8.

Just my 2c ...

Edited by Sweet Lou 14

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On 10/17/2018 at 4:14 PM, JcomicJ said:

not everyone person is trying to flip a profit from slabs so for us who just collect for personal enjoyment don't care for the rings in any way but id rather have rings instead of my book being destroyed by slipping down a case like my iron man issue suffered

Does it have to be 'either or'? Both are unacceptable, IMO.

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7 hours ago, CCComics said:

I really don't see this whole meltdown (or as a previous post has it at critical mass) that a book in a holder that has Newton rings is sooooo undesirable, that no one wants them. Or that people selling their books on eBay now have to put disclaimers in their listings about the rings. It looks more like they are having problems in general about people wanting refunds for any reason they come up with. And I haven't noticed any Auction houses or other dealers feeling heat and having to put a "no returns" just because of the rings, that's just a policy alot of people have on graded books. Maybe I'm overlooking it or just haven't noticed. I've never not bought a book because of any degree of Newton rings. If there would be any issues in selling your books for any reason, it would probably be the books themselves rather than a few Newton rings.

We're all crazy, OCD wackos :hi:

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Some people don't care about newton rings. Some of us do. Sorry. Shouldn't have to apologize for not getting what I paid for. A crystal clear case as described on this company's home page. Maybe i'm just expecting too much.

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29 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

Some people don't care about newton rings. Some of us do. Sorry. Shouldn't have to apologize for not getting what I paid for. A crystal clear case as described on this company's home page. Maybe i'm just expecting too much.

I believe another reason why Newton Rings have become such an issue lately despite, as CGC noted, being a common occurrence for the last 20 years, is because on the previous generation of slabs you could often slide a piece of paper between the sheets of plastic to correct the effect; with the new slabs you can't. :tonofbricks:

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4 hours ago, Ride the Tiger said:

Some people don't care about newton rings. Some of us do. Sorry. Shouldn't have to apologize for not getting what I paid for. A crystal clear case as described on this company's home page. Maybe i'm just expecting too much.

You shouldn't apologize for what you like, I don't think anyone asked you to.  Also, I know there are alot of people that do not like Newton rings of any degree and expect CGC to fix it. I get that part. I only meant that I don't see the wide spread opinion that BOOKS are undesirable in a HOLDER with Newton rings. Hopefully CGC will ultimately come up with the perfect solution so everyone is pleased. Happy Collecting :foryou:

Edited by CCComics

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On 10/18/2018 at 9:37 AM, CCComics said:

I really don't see this whole meltdown (or as a previous post has it at critical mass) that a book in a holder that has Newton rings is sooooo undesirable, that no one wants them. Or that people selling their books on eBay now have to put disclaimers in their listings about the rings. It looks more like they are having problems in general about people wanting refunds for any reason they come up with. And I haven't noticed any Auction houses or other dealers feeling heat and having to put a "no returns" just because of the rings, that's just a policy alot of people have on graded books. Maybe I'm overlooking it or just haven't noticed. I've never not bought a book because of any degree of Newton rings. If there would be any issues in selling your books for any reason, it would probably be the books themselves rather than a few Newton rings.

What one individual sees or doesn't see is of little consequence when it comes to consumer trust.  I've witnessed and heard many things behind the scenes that contradict your impressions, but you can believe whatever you like.  As I see it, the meltdown is more glacial than nuclear, but the long term ramifications can be just as catastrophic.

Also, I don't have a problem with your finding my scanning difficulties with these holders funny.  That was simply a newly discovered issue among several that makes CGC's current product less appealing than their earlier holders.  Lord of The Newton Rings was merely my own brand of sarcasm, with a Hobbit pun thrown in for good measure.

The reality of auctioning books in holders with Newton rings is that a consignor can never be sure of realizing the maximum value due to how these visual anomalies may impact potential bidders.  Also, the fact that the diminished appearance doesn't bother you provides no indication of how it might affect the next person.  

Edited by Cat-Man_America

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On 10/14/2018 at 9:14 PM, CCComics said:

Just my 2 cents, I would much rather have the new holders than the old holders, even with a bad case of Newton Ringitis. I actually really like the new holders but I guess the rings don't bother me as much. The rings used to be on the old Comic Fortresses I used back in the day, too.

Wow I haven't heard anybody talk about the fortresses in a long time lol. I had them on couple of marvel mysteries I had and mine done it too, but before I sold them on eBay I took them out they were fine the buyers were happy.

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On 10/20/2018 at 10:17 PM, scarlet_speedster said:

Wow I haven't heard anybody talk about the fortresses in a long time lol. I had them on couple of marvel mysteries I had and mine done it too, but before I sold them on eBay I took them out they were fine the buyers were happy.

I have several old fortresses stored away as well.  Never use them myself as they can potentially damage books.  Blotchy Newton Rings may be an indication that too much surface pressure is being applied where the two plastics make contact with books, ...potentially squishing them.  This may have been the case with the fortresses (I've heard a few horror stories).  I'm just sayin' it may also be of concern for those owning books in newer "SOTA" CGC holders.

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I've just read thru' this thread. Some interesting points. My 2c is this;

1. Obviously the extreme examples of NR are completely unacceptable.

2. I don't think I've ever owned a slab since the inception of CGC (and I've owned a fair few) that did not have some degree of NR.

3. Comic books were not meant to be put in plastic tombs ergo you just have to take them on the chin, until one day (maybe) the process can be perfected.

4. Would NRs put me off buying a desirable book/grail?  Don't be silly 

That is all.

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