James J Johnson Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, TwoPiece said: Which, again, will net you more $$$$$ than a crappy PGX-graded copy. Buyers will beware the PGX slab because they know there may be undisclosed restoration, etc. That is why CGC sells better and for more. Let this thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, tabcom said: I don't fear restoration nor pieces missing. I do fear the grade being BLUE 4.5 at worst; 5.0 at best. It sounds like you underestimate what the worst case scenario actually is. You shouldn't be worried about a blue 4.5, you should be worried there's a chance that it comes back purple. 2 hours ago, tabcom said: Will send to comiclink auctions at some point in the distant future. The comiclink user base is going to be far more educated on CGC vs PGX than a buyer on eBay. Larryw7, Keys_Collector and mosconi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, ExNihilo said: The comiclink user base is going to be far more educated on CGC vs PGX than a buyer on eBay. ComicLink doesn't even recognize PGX as a valid grading company on their site. Any listings for PGX books basically go up as raws. ExNihilo and Raze 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aszumilo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, tabcom said: I don't fear restoration nor pieces missing. I do fear the grade being BLUE 4.5 at worst; 5.0 at best. So, by this statement you obviously think the book is over graded. Selling it down the road, knowing it is over graded, seems a bit underhanded to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, aszumilo said: So, by this statement you obviously think the book is over graded. Selling it down the road, knowing it is over graded, seems a bit underhanded to me. It's an inferior brand. It's a brand that cannot instill the same level as trust as CGC. The item speaks for itself, thus the lesser pool of potential buyers and the reduced price results. The PGX brand speaks for itself. Anyone selling a PGX book shouldn't be considered dishonest or disingenuous for not presenting a disclaimer in that listing; a warning about the PGX brand, unless they are aware of the book being misrepresented, PGX overlooking restoration or missing parts. It's not dishonest or unethical to sell a PGX slab with honest intent, in and of itself. Clear, large, high resolution images should be included so a buyer can make the determination on how far off the book may be overgraded. A conscientious seller with good customer service should detail flaws, calling attention to them. Edited October 17, 2018 by James J Johnson lizards2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 12 hours ago, tabcom said: A. True (at the time of purchase) B. True With respect to the OP, I don't believe many collectors beyond this forum know PGX notorious history as well. Hence, I'm satisfied in leaving the Ff#1 'as is' in my collection. When the day comes to sell, I believe the 5.5 pgx will sell for more then the 4.5 cgc grade it deserves. Furthermore, IMHO, I don't think the buyer would even contemplate my previous sentence in making their purchasing decision. 'If I couldn't be bothered googling it, then clearly no one else would.' fullerjason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JollyComics Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 hours ago, tabcom said: I don't fear restoration nor pieces missing. I do fear the grade being BLUE 4.5 at worst; 5.0 at best. Then don't fear CGC. You won't be regretted in your lifetime. I suggested you to keep it for about five to ten years. It will go up every year. FF #1 will be scarce. Maybe you should bring it to CGC booth at the show. They will not crack the case but they will inspect it for you. It's your judgement and follow your instinct. Good luck with your book. Raze 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the Tiger Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Uhg 2 pages of this thread is enough. Just say no to PGX everytime.Go to their site and check out the graders resumes. You know. The names of the people giving the grades and their experience in this industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosconi Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, ExNihilo said: It sounds like you underestimate what the worst case scenario actually is. You shouldn't be worried about a blue 4.5, you should be worried there's a chance that it comes back purple. The comiclink user base is going to be far more educated on CGC vs PGX than a buyer on eBay. Very true. ComicLink has too many seasoned, knowledgeable collectors to fall prey to a potential problem PGX book without it being heavily discounted. Hate to say it, but best bet is to dump this on some uninformed, newbie collector on eBay. Just hope the buyer in turn doesn't submit to CGC and have the FF #1 come back with restoration. They may then come back at the seller for a refund or file an eBay/PayPal claim. The fun never ends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 46 minutes ago, mosconi said: Very true. ComicLink has too many seasoned, knowledgeable collectors to fall prey to a potential problem PGX book without it being heavily discounted. Hate to say it, but best bet is to dump this on some uninformed, newbie collector on eBay. Just hope the buyer in turn doesn't submit to CGC and have the FF #1 come back with restoration. They may then come back at the seller for a refund or file an eBay/PayPal claim. The fun never ends Heritage has the right idea. A general search of the Heritage permanent auction archives, which is a history of comics (or anything else) offered by them doesn't turn up any PGX graded material! I imagine that they just refuse to consider taking them on consignment, which makes perfect sense. Who needs the hassle and a buyer pursuing restitution once a PGX book is cross submitted and what's really in that slab comes to light. It has to be disquieting for anyone to sell a PGX graded book and then hope there's no chargeback because a real restoration check by CGC yields positive on a formerly PGX graded book labeled as Universal. mosconi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 2:06 PM, mattn792 said: ComicLink doesn't even recognize PGX as a valid grading company on their site. Any listings for PGX books basically go up as raws. They should go up as unexamined raws with poss missing pages and resto up the yin yang. In other words, sell for less than raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) On 10/17/2018 at 4:20 PM, Ride the Tiger said: Uhg 2 pages of this thread is enough. Just say no to PGX everytime.Go to their site and check out the graders resumes. You know. The names of the people giving the grades and their experience in this industry. People? Aside from the guy with the inventory, the slabbing mechanism, and label printer, there's employees grading books, resto checking, and authenticating autographs in the PGX garage? Without bumping into one another, circumnavigating the work bench? Who are they? Harvey the Rabbit and his more visible but equally blind second cousin, the Easter Bunny? Edited October 19, 2018 by James J Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the Tiger Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 15 hours ago, James J Johnson said: People? Aside from the guy with the inventory, the slabbing mechanism, and label printer, there's employees grading books, resto checking, and authenticating autographs in the PGX garage? Without bumping into one another, circumnavigating the work bench? Who are they? Harvey the Rabbit and his more visible but equally blind second cousin, the Easter Bunny? Exactly 1 man outfit with rabbits about sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Round kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 8:34 PM, James J Johnson said: Heritage has the right idea. A general search of the Heritage permanent auction archives, which is a history of comics (or anything else) offered by them doesn't turn up any PGX graded material! I imagine that they just refuse to consider taking them on consignment, which makes perfect sense. Who needs the hassle and a buyer pursuing restitution once a PGX book is cross submitted and what's really in that slab comes to light. It has to be disquieting for anyone to sell a PGX graded book and then hope there's no chargeback because a real restoration check by CGC yields positive on a formerly PGX graded book labeled as Universal. Why on earth would Heritage allow sales of PGX books when they own CGC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, the blob said: Why on earth would Heritage allow sales of PGX books when they own CGC? They routinely offer CBCS graded books. Do they own that too? Why would they forego potential revenue/commissions from the sales of PGX graded material if they didn't believe it to be a problematic brand with more potential downsides than upsides? Were I an auction mammoth, the magnitude of Heritage, the last thing I'd want would be an association with the PGX brand. I'd want enough distance between PGX and me that you'd need a space shuttle to bridge the gap. Edited October 23, 2018 by James J Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 3:09 PM, James J Johnson said: On 10/17/2018 at 2:34 PM, aszumilo said: So, by this statement you obviously think the book is over graded. Selling it down the road, knowing it is over graded, seems a bit underhanded to me. It's an inferior brand. It's a brand that cannot instill the same level as trust as CGC. The item speaks for itself, thus the lesser pool of potential buyers and the reduced price results. The PGX brand speaks for itself. Anyone selling a PGX book shouldn't be considered dishonest or disingenuous for not presenting a disclaimer in that listing; a warning about the PGX brand, unless they are aware of the book being misrepresented, PGX overlooking restoration or missing parts. It's not dishonest or unethical to sell a PGX slab with honest intent, in and of itself. Clear, large, high resolution images should be included so a buyer can make the determination on how far off the book may be overgraded. A conscientious seller with good customer service should detail flaws, calling attention to them. I agree with this. Just sell it as is, with good pictures. Make no claims about it yourself, let the people decide for themselves based on available information. Even if YOU personally thought it was undergraded or overgraded, there's not really any reason the potential buyer should trust the biased opinion of the seller to begin with, that's the point of the 3rd party grading and providing good pictures. You can't sit around worrying that every buyer is as knowledgeable and has the same priority set and risk aversion level as you do, there's not enough time in the day. Think about it this way. You own a comic book store or convention booth. You bought a bunch of slabs from a collection. Some are PGX, which is not ideal, but its fine. You throw them up on the shelf for sale, with a sign that says 'slab sales are final'. You personally don't trust PGX, but are you gonna tell every prospective buyer about every flaw with each PGX comic? That's insane. Let them inspect it, then they can decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 41 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: They routinely offer CBCS graded books. Do they own that too? Why would they forego potential revenue/commissions from the sales of PGX graded material if they didn't believe it to be a problematic brand with more potential downsides than upsides? Were I an auction mammoth, the magnitude of Heritage, the last thing I'd want would be an association with the PGX brand. I'd want enough distance between PGX and me that you'd need a space shuttle to bridge the gap. Good question. Maybe they don't think CBCS is as sketchy? It's owned by Becket, it's kind of real. PGX is in someone's basement, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 53 minutes ago, the blob said: Good question. Maybe they don't think CBCS is as sketchy? It's owned by Becket, it's kind of real. PGX is in someone's basement, no? You're 100% correct in that they don't think that CBCS is as sketchy but I think what JJJ was getting at is that Heritage not offering PGX books has nothing to do with their ownership of CGC as you posted but rather with the perception of PGX in the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 2:06 PM, mattn792 said: ComicLink doesn't even recognize PGX as a valid grading company on their site. Any listings for PGX books basically go up as raws. CL also doesn't offer large scans of the front and back (no back scan at all), which may help the OP with the realized price. The gambling mentality is real in the high end of the hobby and even though I agree that CL buyers will be more educated on PGX than your average Joe Shmoe on ebay that is at least partially mitigated by the gambling mentality and lack of good scans. Also, how many uneducated Joe Shmoe types put down 5 figures for a book? I'd imagine not many. If you have that kind of coin to spend on comics, you probably are fairly well educated on the hobby. We are not talking about someone spending a couple hundred bucks on the latest movie craze book. Raze, James J Johnson and lizards2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
