Cap 1 vs Bats 1
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Superhero and first appearance will always trump first appearance of a supervillian for me Even the joker whom is arguably the greatest of them all. 

The Joker has an unbelievable following like Venom. Hey, I like Captain America better, but modern audiences have a different taste.  The Venom movie beat Justice League who had both Superman and Batman in it at the box office easilly. Times change.

Edited by ComicConnoisseur

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40 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The Joker has an unbelievable following like Venom. Hey, I like Captain America better, but modern audiences have a different taste.  The Venom movie beat Justice League who had both Superman and Batman in it at the box office easilly. Times change.

Yeah but the Venom movie was actually good, blend of humor and action.  The Justice League movie was, well, kind of lame.

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1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Yes, why do you think both Action 1 and Detective Comics #27 both sold for over a million a few years ago? It was because of BvS hype. The movie bombed. Have you noticed they never put those same two million dollar comics back on the market? Because most likely they wouldn't hit a million in sales this time. So they are waiting patiently to see if the new Matt Reeves Batman film is a hit or not. Action 1 will be a longer wait.

If you don't believe in Hollywood hype than go check out Tomb of Dracula #10 sales on Ebay last night. They went thru the roof because Marvel announced a suprise that they are now making a new Blade movie.

:baiting:

lol.

 

Just off the top of my head I know a 8.0 Action #1 sold for over 2 million and a Tec 27 5.0 went for $560k+ just last year, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about.  

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2 minutes ago, Knightsofold said:

Just off the top of my head I know a 8.0 Action #1 sold for over 2 million and a Tec 27 5.0 went for $560k+ just last year, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about.  

Good fair point about that. I guess though it most likely be like a year or two from now when most likely we would have more data about if the Hollywood hype(Joker movies) affected Batman 1 compared to Captain America 1.

Should be fun to revisit this thread in the future.

:preach:

 

 

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I really don't think movie hype has an effect on big GA books like Superman 1, Batman 1, etc. These books will still be highly popular when the movies eventually fade.

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10 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

This comment might make some sense if the first million dollar sale of Action #1 hadn't occurred six years before the release of the film, or that the two 9.0 copies both belong to the same collector who has no desire to put them back in the marketplace, and wasn't influenced in the slightest by what Hollywood does.

While it might be true that Hollywood rumor can turn $50 books into $500 ones, no one hears that they are making a new Batman or Superman movie and says to themselves "I better go out and spend a million on a copy of their first appearance before it really takes off in price".

 

Bingo

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Superman and Batman have always been the exception in this case. Both have been pop culture phenomenons for decades with numerous successful ventures outside the pages of a four color comic under their belt between them, cementing their place as true icons.

While Captain America, Iron Man and Wonder Woman have long been considered comic book royalty to comic book fans their big screen exploits have certainly played a part in the recent explosion of 'value' of their first appearance comic books. 

Spider-Man and The Hulk fall somewhere between these two cases: while not as long as Superman and Batman both have been featured outside of comics in television (live action and cartoons) news paper strips and merchandise so there was always familiarity with the general public and prestige added to their debut comics, but we would be kidding ourselves to think the Sam Raimi Spidey film had no effect on AF15 commanding the prices it commands now and being able to be mentioned in the same breath as Tec27 and Act1 

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3 hours ago, sagii said:

Superman and Batman have always been the exception in this case. Both have been pop culture phenomenons for decades with numerous successful ventures outside the pages of a four color comic under their belt between them, cementing their place as true icons.

While Captain America, Iron Man and Wonder Woman have long been considered comic book royalty to comic book fans their big screen exploits have certainly played a part in the recent explosion of 'value' of their first appearance comic books. 

Spider-Man and The Hulk fall somewhere between these two cases: while not as long as Superman and Batman both have been featured outside of comics in television (live action and cartoons) news paper strips and merchandise so there was always familiarity with the general public and prestige added to their debut comics, but we would be kidding ourselves to think the Sam Raimi Spidey film had no effect on AF15 commanding the prices it commands now and being able to be mentioned in the same breath as Tec27 and Act1 

Personally I think Cap & WW were due for an increase  ( movies or not ). Not sure if I feel comfortable saying the same about Iron Man without RObert Downey Jr especially in those high grades. I don’t think the Raimi film had anything to do with AF 15 

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20 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Personally I think Cap & WW were due for an increase  ( movies or not ). Not sure if I feel comfortable saying the same about Iron Man without RObert Downey Jr especially in those high grades. I don’t think the Raimi film had anything to do with AF 15 

:hi:

Well we seem to agree on IM.

I'll concede some ground on WW and CA

But wholeheartedly disagree with regards to AF 15.

It was Spidey's first foray into the 'Arena'. Marvels flagship character.  And he passed with flying colors. The film's run was cultural event 

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4 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

Bingo

At that level people are not thinking like a flipper.   They do like knowing their things have increased in value, but not as much as they like knowing their friends may have heard about it, and therefore may be impressed when it's displayed for them.  So in that respect the increased awareness of a high dollar sale or a new project announced makes it more of a conversation piece.   

And nobody at this point is simultaneously rich enough, fan enough and old enough that they are buying Action 1 or Detective 27 because they have nostalgia from knowing that book in its original printing.    They have all heard of the books many decades after they were printed and they have all seen the covers reprinted endlessly to the point they're as recognizable as any piece of great art.  And I see no sign of that lessening.  

 

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6 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

This comment might make some sense if the first million dollar sale of Action #1 hadn't occurred six years before the release of the film, or that the two 9.0 copies both belong to the same collector who has no desire to put them back in the marketplace, and wasn't influenced in the slightest by what Hollywood does.

 

 

Well ... Hariri has admitted that he was influenced by Hollywood hype to obtain a copy of All-Star 8.  Hariri and Gal Gadot:

vero

He likes the movie scene - here he is with Zach Snyder:

Zack Snyder, director of Batman V Superman, and Ayman Hariri

But, he was inspired to collect comics by an editorial cartoon that portrayed his father, a PM of Syria who was assassinated, as Superman.  Hariri's favorite character is Superman, and that's why he owns the top graded Action 1s.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Well ... Hariri has admitted that he was influenced by Hollywood hype to obtain a copy of All-Star 8.  Hariri and Gal Gadot:

vero

He likes the movie scene - here he is with Zach Snyder:

Zack Snyder, director of Batman V Superman, and Ayman Hariri

But, he was inspired to collect comics by an editorial cartoon that portrayed his father, a PM of Syria who was assassinated, as Superman.  Hariri's favorite character is Superman, and that's why he owns the top graded Action 1s.

Not the highest graded Sensation 1 but definitely the highest graded Israeli actress 

F445CAD8-93D2-4031-AD6C-4CE4F26D4EBA.gif

Edited by Chicago Boy

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12 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Not the highest graded Sensation 1 but definitely the highest graded Israeli actress 

 

New Thor is going to be mad.

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31 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

New Thor is going to be mad.

Good point. Forgot about her. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 7:53 AM, Crowzilla said:

Bat #1 can't even pass Superman #1, how is Tec going to pass Action?

 

I’m not saying it will, but supply of Detective #27 seems to be about equal, if not slightly less than that of Action #1.

There are far more Batman #1’s than there are Superman #1’s.

So Detective #27 > Action #1 > Superman #1 > Batman #1 wouldn’t be unreasonable.

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On 7/21/2019 at 7:26 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I agree Bat will dominate in the future.  And I do think Bat 1 will overcome Supe 1 due to the fact that except for 2 new origin pages, the latter is a book of reprints.  The 2 origin pages are fantastic, don’t get me wrong.

There is nearly as much original Superman content in Superman #1 as there is original Batman content in Detective #27.

Reprinted Superman material > original non-Superman material.

So Superman #1’s value shouldn’t slip without Detective #27’s value slipping for the same reason. Then again, many collectors are not aware of the nearly equal amount of original content.

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I don’t think Hollywood has a tremendous impact on the value of Top-Level GA books. Good movies help, even bad movies may help in the short-term, but I don’t believe the latter hurts the value of these books much, if at all.

I enjoyed MOS, BvS and JL more than most. But critically, they were slammed, all the while values of Action #1 and Detective #27 trended upward.

You could make a strong argument for Joker > Cap, therefore Batman #1 > Cap #1 but from what I’ve seen, collectors do tend to lean more heavily on heroes over villains.

FF #5 isn’t hasn’t surpassed TOS #39 because of Doom > Iron Man. Action #23 hasn’t surpassed MF #52 because of Luthor > Spectre. Not perfectly analogous, but you get the idea.

There’s a lot more Cap in Cap #1 than there is Joker in Batman #1. Cap #1 is rarer. Cap #1 has the superior cover by a country mile.

Cap #1 is arguably the most desirable Marvel comic book in the world in entry grade condition. Batman #1 is the 4th most desirable DC comic book in entry grade condition. And objectively speaking Marvel and their number of fans > DC and their number of fans.

There’s a reason why the two books have been so closely matched. What we’ve seen in recent years is something of an abundance of supply of Cap #1’s, which impacts “perception” (not reality) of rarity, which impacts prices. If Cap #1’s went into hibernation, there’s more than enough demand to make things go crazy again.

And keep in mind, this isn’t a book trending downward, simply a book that isn’t ascending at the rate Batman #1 is at this time.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

There is nearly as much original Superman content in Superman #1 as there is original Batman content in Detective #27.

Reprinted Superman material > original non-Superman material.

So Superman #1’s value shouldn’t slip without Detective #27’s value slipping for the same reason. Then again, many collectors are not aware of the nearly equal amount of original content.

Overstreet doesn’t help in his description: “reprints with 2 new origin pages” seems not so sexy

Edited by GreatCaesarsGhost

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1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I don’t think Hollywood has a tremendous impact on the value of Top-Level GA books. Good movies help, even bad movies may help in the short-term, but I don’t believe the latter hurts the value of these books much, if at all.

I enjoyed MOS, BvS and JL more than most. But critically, they were slammed, all the while values of Action #1 and Detective #27 trended upward.

You could make a strong argument for Joker > Cap, therefore Batman #1 > Cap #1 but from what I’ve seen, collectors do tend to lean more heavily on heroes over villains.

FF #5 isn’t hasn’t surpassed TOS #39 because of Doom > Iron Man. Action #23 hasn’t surpassed MF #52 because of Luthor > Spectre. Not perfectly analogous, but you get the idea.

There’s a lot more Cap in Cap #1 than there is Joker in Batman #1. Cap #1 is rarer. Cap #1 has the superior cover by a country mile.

Cap #1 is arguably the most desirable Marvel comic book in the world in entry grade condition. Batman #1 is the 4th most desirable DC comic book in entry grade condition. And objectively speaking Marvel and their number of fans > DC and their number of fans.

There’s a reason why the two books have been so closely matched. What we’ve seen in recent years is something of an abundance of supply of Cap #1’s, which impacts “perception” (not reality) of rarity, which impacts prices. If Cap #1’s went into hibernation, there’s more than enough demand to make things go crazy again.

And keep in mind, this isn’t a book trending downward, simply a book that isn’t ascending at the rate Batman #1 is at this time.

I see cap and joker as having different fan bases.  The only reason Chicagoboy initially compared the 2 I believe was because of monetary value. I myself like captain America more than the joker.

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