Bob Layton taking Co-Creator Credit for Iron Man? Gone too far in my opinion. 3 3

[theCapraAegagrus]

22 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

What about the metric of 6-0 and 6 finals  MVP’s and never letting it get to a 7th game vs 3-6?

Winning has to mean something.

100% winning percentage for both the Finals and MVP is light-years better than 33% of both titles.

[Prince Namor]

The thing about Jordan is that when he hit his prime he was unstoppable. The last 6 full seasons he played in the league he won the Championship. 

Further adding to his credit is the seasons in between those two 3-peats - he went and played baseball and came back for part of a season. The Bulls managed just first round wins in both seasons. 

And unlike LeBron, who I’m a big fan of, Jordan didn’t come into the league as the best player - he worked to become a better outside shooter - he worked to become a great defensive player - and he faced some of the greatest teams EVER in the history of the NBA to become one of its greatest champions. 

Bird, Magic, Kareem, Malone, Ewing... those tough Pistons teams... Jordan eventually beat them all on his way to being the greatest. And once there, no one ever could dethrone him. It took retirement to gain a new champion. 

No question the greatest of all time. 

[bb8]

52 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

What about the metric of 6-0 and 6 finals  MVP’s and never letting it get to a 7th game vs 3-6?

Winning has to mean something.

He has 4 championships at this point. And sure that's a good metric. It's just not the only metric in my mind. I'm not really arguing for or against tbh. I'm just saying he has one.

[Logan510]

1 minute ago, bb8 said:

He has 4 championships at this point. And sure that's a good metric. It's just not the only metric in my mind. I'm not really arguing for or against tbh. I'm just saying he has one.

He has 3 not 4.

3-6

[bb8]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

He has 3 not 4.

3-6

You're right, my mistake. I thought he had 3 in Miami for some reason.

Edited January 2, 2019 by bb8

[valiantman]

4 hours ago, Logan510 said:

What about the metric of 6-0 and 6 finals  MVP’s and never letting it get to a 7th game vs 3-6?

Winning has to mean something.

Agreed, but "getting to 9 finals" is a better metric than "getting to 6 finals".  Sitting at home (or playing baseball) isn't better than playing in the finals.

[kav]

virtually every basketball bullet point is on the side of LeBron. Except the winning. 

Per Game Table

PLAYER	FROM	TO	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	EFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PTS
LeBron James	2004	2019	1177	1176	38.6	9.9	19.6	.504	1.4	4.2	.344	.541	6.0	8.1	.738	7.4	7.2	1.6	0.8	3.5	27.2
Michael Jordan*	1985	1998	930	919	38.6	11.8	23.3	.505	0.6	1.8	.332	.518	7.3	8.7	.838	6.3	5.4	2.5	0.9	2.8	31.

[Logan510]

4 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Agreed, but "getting to 9 finals" is a better metric than "getting to 6 finals".  Sitting at home (or playing baseball) isn't better than playing in the finals.

Ok, so I guess that Jerry West who is 1-8 in the finals is above Jordan as well. My bad.

[valiantman]

2 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

7 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Agreed, but "getting to 9 finals" is a better metric than "getting to 6 finals".  Sitting at home (or playing baseball) isn't better than playing in the finals.

Ok, so I guess that Jerry West who is 1-8 in the finals is above Jordan as well. My bad.

Were Jerry West's stats also comparable?  Because you could just as easily make the case that John Paxson is better than LeBron if we're just going by "undefeated" in the finals.

Edited January 2, 2019 by valiantman

[Logan510]

1 minute ago, kav said:

virtually every basketball bullet point is on the side of LeBron. Except the winning. 

Per Game Table

PLAYER	FROM	TO	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	EFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PTS
LeBron James	2004	2019	1177	1176	38.6	9.9	19.6	.504	1.4	4.2	.344	.541	6.0	8.1	.738	7.4	7.2	1.6	0.8	3.5	27.2
Michael Jordan*	1985	1998	930	919	38.6	11.8	23.3	.505	0.6	1.8	.332	.518	7.3	8.7	.838	6.3	5.4	2.5	0.9	2.8	31.

Except the winning, scoring, defensive play and free throw shooting, especially late in games.

Aside from that. LBJ is the man.

[Logan510]

Just now, valiantman said:

Were Jerry West's stats also comparable?  Because you could just as easily make the case that John Paxson is better than LeBron if we're just going by 6-0 in the finals.

Look up Jerry West's stats and tell me what you think.

[kav]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

Except the winning, scoring, defensive play and free throw shooting, especially late in games.

Aside from that. LBJ is the man.

If you ignore all those things, and just focus on how great he is, he's #1!!!!

[miraclemet]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

virtually every basketball bullet point is on the side of LeBron. Except the winning. 

Per Game Table

PLAYER	FROM	TO	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	EFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PTS
LeBron James	2004	2019	1177	1176	38.6	9.9	19.6	.504	1.4	4.2	.344	.541	6.0	8.1	.738	7.4	7.2	1.6	0.8	3.5	27.2
Michael Jordan*	1985	1998	930	919	38.6	11.8	23.3	.505	0.6	1.8	.332	.518	7.3	8.7	.838	6.3	5.4	2.5	0.9	2.8	31.

except for points

and field goal percentage

both pretty important (and related)

also steals

and blocks (virtual tie, but slight Jordan)

and free throws

and free throw percent

so "virtually" might be a stretch....

Basicly the thing that LeBron is better at is shot selection (he has a higher efficency), rebounds and assists and takes/makes more 3s, though that is part of the evolution of the game. 

Jordan also played durring an era where there were actual centers who had the job of getting rebounds. Of course LeBron has 2 inches and 50 lbs on Jordan, so he SHOULD get more rebounds....

[kav]

Just now, miraclemet said:

except for points

and field goal percentage

both pretty important (and related)

also steals

and blocks (virtual tie, but slight Jordan)

and free throws

and free throw percent

so "virtually" might be a stretch....

Basicly the thing that LeBron is better at is shot selection (he has a higher efficency), rebounds and assists and takes/makes more 3s, though that is part of the evolution of the game. 

Jordan also played durring an era where there were actual centers who had the job of getting rebounds. Of course LeBron has 2 inches and 50 lbs on Jordan, so he SHOULD get more rebounds....

Brad Botkin seems confused.  

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lebron-james-had-at-least-one-thing-right-when-he-declared-himself-the-greatest-player-of-all-time/

[Buzzetta]

So... what's new? 

[valiantman]

4 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

So... what's new? 

I believe that if you set your Twitter bio to "I created Bob Layton" you will have several supporters from this board. 

[newshane]

In addition to being the co-creator of Iron Man, BOB LAYTON was the best NBA player of all time. 

[Ken Aldred]

10 minutes ago, newshane said:

In addition to being the co-creator of Iron Man, BOB LAYTON was the best NBA player of all time. 

Interesting.  Being British, also a science nerd, with no interest whatsoever in sports, I had no idea about this.

A true Renaissance man, then.

[newshane]

6 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Interesting.  Being British, also a science nerd, with no interest whatsoever in sports, I had no idea about this.

A true Renaissance man, then.

ΔpxΔx ≥	ℏ
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[newshane]

"Two seemingly incompatible conceptions can each represent an aspect of the truth… They may serve in turn to represent the facts without ever entering into direct conflict."

Louis de Broglie